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Thread: A general concern

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    Let me start off by saying I fully support carry of any kind, OC or CC.

    I do however have a concern that I've been contemplating for a couple days without any good answer. Hopefully someone here can give one, or preferably some.

    We all know OC is becoming more common as time goes on. Whose to say, once it becomes quite common, that people with criminal intent wont start open carrying as well for the intent of looking inconspicuous. They could be waiting for the opportunity to see that noone else is open carrying to follow through on their crime, meanwhile impersonating a law abiding citizen.

    Granted, the more people that carry and the more widely known it is that people are carrying, the less likely criminals are to risk their lives, but... if they were moral and had common sense, they wouldn't be commiting felonies with firearms in the first place...

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    The reason criminals hide their guns is the police in most cases know the felons in their areas... if they see one with a gun they are going to arrest them! Also there are notices that go out when certain types of Felon's moves into a new area.

    Of course a person that has not yet committed a crime wouldn't fit this description.... but as we are a free country that is a chance we take...
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    I have thought about the same thing, but never posed that question on here because I didn't want a chance of acriminal that comes across this website to read it and think about doing it.

    Just like many law abiding citizens that don't know anything about OC, and see someone OCing, chances are a criminal that see's someone OCing will probably think just like that citizen. That person carrying like that must have a license or be a LEO.

    Sure a criminal could hear about OC and do there research, learn all of the "rules", then use that to their advantage to commit a crime, but the chance of them doing it is slim though. Plus, really what is the difference between a criminal CCing a weapon they intend to use for a crime and them OCing it? If anything, they have made it worse on themselves by drawing attention to themselves. Now a cop might be called to the area prior to them commiting the crime, where as if they would have CCed the gun that could have given them a few extra minutes to execute their plan before a LEO arrives.

    To sum it up, if a criminal is going to commit a crime, it doesn't matter whether they CC, or OC. They are still going to have a witness(s), possibly video evidence, etc that they are going to have to deal with.

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    T Vance wrote:
    I have thought about the same thing, but never posed that question on here because I didn't want a chance of acriminal that comes across this website to read it and think about doing it.
    I originally had the same exact thought. After thinking about it in depth, I realized that criminals can be just as smart as anyone else. They would figure it out.

    If anything, they have made it worse on themselves by drawing attention to themselves. Now a cop might be called to the area prior to them commiting the crime, where as if they would have CCed the gun that could have given them a few extra minutes to execute their plan before a LEO arrives.
    I considered this also, but was thinking in the future, when open carry people are not harassed


    To sum it up, if a criminal is going to commit a crime, it doesn't matter whether they CC, or OC. They are still going to have a witness(s), possibly video evidence, etc that they are going to have to deal with.
    Very true... nothing is going to change. Thanks for clarifying that. The criminal will have the gun CC or OC regardless of what anyone else does.

    Thinking more about it, it may in fact be better. I would rather know that someone has a gun, then wonder if they do. I would think the LEO's, if they sat down and thought about it, would come to the same conclusion.

    (sorry for the multiple edits... many thoughts lol)



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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    You could go ask questions in the forums for states where OC is more common and find out if this is a problem they face.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    ethernetweb wrote:
    Let me start off by saying I fully support carry of any kind, OC or CC.

    I do however have a concern that I've been contemplating for a couple days without any good answer. Hopefully someone here can give one, or preferably some.

    We all know OC is becoming more common as time goes on. Whose to say, once it becomes quite common, that people with criminal intent wont start open carrying as well for the intent of looking inconspicuous. They could be waiting for the opportunity to see that noone else is open carrying to follow through on their crime, meanwhile impersonating a law abiding citizen.

    Granted, the more people that carry and the more widely known it is that people are carrying, the less likely criminals are to risk their lives, but... if they were moral and had common sense, they wouldn't be commiting felonies with firearms in the first place...
    Sssshhhhhhh
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    Sssshhhhhhh
    Might wanna get that leak fixed

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    ethernetweb wrote:
    We all know OC is becoming more common as time goes on. Whose to say, once it becomes quite common, that people with criminal intent wont start open carrying as well for the intent of looking inconspicuous. They could be waiting for the opportunity to see that noone else is open carrying to follow through on their crime, meanwhile impersonating a law abiding citizen.
    For the criminal, concealed carry is BY FAR the vastly superior method for remaininginconspicuous. Not only do they want to be inconspicuous up to the moment they spring their crime, they want the element of surprise as well. Even in the states where open carry has been around a long time, far more people do it, andit causes much less of a fuss generally(e.g., Arizona),armed criminals go about with their gatsinsidetheir pants.

    I think your concern is absurd. Not in the pejorative sense (I'm not insulting you), but in a strictly rational and reality-based sense. There are other concernswhich, rationally, are far more credibleconcerns to think about, as open carry becomes more prevalent. Such as more concerted efforts by government, both stealthily and outright, to chip away at liberty. For example, the government may not infringe on a lawful person's RKBA, but if it controls who is on the list of "lawful persons" and the other list of "unlawful persons", then government controls the RKBA through a "back door", don't they?

    That is an example of a MUCH MORE valid and rational concern as open carry and, indeed, all forms of gun ownership and carry become more prevalent. It's borne out by history, in fact. So, not only think about all possible concerns, but also think about how realistic and historically-based they are, too. Food for thought.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    @DanM, I would agree that issue would be more of a concern, however that concern is already widely known to exist. I was presenting a concern that wasn't addressed to my knowledge.

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    Dan's example of Arizona is a great one. It's a state where open carrying never ever went away even in cities.

    In the valley, LA punks many of whom have felony convictions are like a wide spread disease that can't be cured. But I've never ever seen one that OC's.

    Realistically, it isn't going to happen.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    ethernetweb wrote:
    I was presenting a concern that wasn't addressed to my knowledge.
    Which is a legitimate thing to think about. Obviously you weren't the first one to think about it.

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    T Vance wrote:
    Which is a legitimate thing to think about. Obviously you weren't the first one to think about it.
    I've never been first in anything :P Just wanted to address a possible (now non-existent) concern in order to be prepared with information and knowledge for such a situation.

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    T Vance wrote:
    I didn't need to see that lol.. that was just creepy. For the record I'm drug free just incase that was an implication.

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    LMAO. No I just thought I'd throw in a random video. Sorry for the hi-jack.

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    T Vance wrote:
    LMAO. No I just thought I'd throw in a random video. Sorry for the hi-jack.

    I dated someone in Jackson a few years back, I would expect nothing less J/K

    All in fun, not worried about hijack, unless of course others are not satisfied as I am with the responses.

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    ethernetweb wrote:
    T Vance wrote:
    LMAO. No I just thought I'd throw in a random video. Sorry for the hi-jack.

    I dated someone in Jackson a few years back, I would expect nothing less J/K

    All in fun, not worried about hijack, unless of course others are not satisfied as I am with the responses.
    I'm a Jackson "transplant" so I'm not offended.

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    Well, if my intent was to offend, I would have done a much better job then that LOL

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    ethernetweb wrote:
    @DanM, I would agree that issue would be more of a concern, however that concern is already widely known to exist. I was presenting a concern that wasn't addressed to my knowledge.
    My point is not aboutconcerns that are "more of a concern" versusothers that are less of a concern, or concerns thatare "widely known to exist" versusothers that arenot widely known to exist.

    My point is more drastic than that. My point is that your concern is way beyond being "less of a concern" and "not widely known to exist" and more in the area of"don't worry about it because it ain't gonna happen". There are concerns that are realistic versus unrealistic. The concern aboutarmedBG's going from concealed carry to open carry, as OCbecomes more accepted, is utterly unrealistic. No matter how accepted and prevalent OC becomes, BG's will practicallyALWAYS keep their guns hidden. Your concern is so unrealistic and in the "ain't gonna happen" bucket as to not need to be "addressed".
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    DanM wrote:
    ethernetweb wrote:
    @DanM, I would agree that issue would be more of a concern, however that concern is already widely known to exist. I was presenting a concern that wasn't addressed to my knowledge.
    My point is not aboutconcerns that are "more of a concern" versusothers that are less of a concern, or concerns thatare "widely known to exist" versusothers that arenot widely known to exist.

    My point is more drastic than that. My point is that your concern is way beyond being "less of a concern" and "not widely known to exist" and more in the area of"don't worry about it because it ain't gonna happen". There are concerns that are realistic versus unrealistic. The concern aboutarmedBG's going from concealed carry to open carry, as OCbecomes more accepted, is utterly unrealistic. No matter how accepted and prevalent OC becomes, BG's will practicallyALWAYS keep their guns hidden. Your concern is so unrealistic and in the "ain't gonna happen" bucket as to not need to be "addressed".
    When you have a question without an answer of your own, that you believe is important, regardless of wether it truely is or not, do you keep silent and always wonder, or do you try to get an answer by using available avenues?

    It happened in our history, why not again? History does tend to repeat. Yes, we have a much different society in this day and age. Yes, we have a structured law enforcement. Even you can't truely say that it won't happen. You must be rich beyond your wildest dreams, being able to predict the future and all.

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    ethernetweb wrote:
    T Vance wrote:
    Which is a legitimate thing to think about. Obviously you weren't the first one to think about it.
    I've never been first in anything :P Just wanted to address a possible (now non-existent) concern in order to be prepared with information and knowledge for such a situation.
    If you are married sorry to hear about that
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    ethernetweb wrote:
    When you have a question without an answer of your own, that you believe is important, regardless of wether it truely is or not, do you keep silent and always wonder, or do you try to get an answer by using available avenues?

    It happened in our history, why not again? History does tend to repeat. Yes, we have a much different society in this day and age. Yes, we have a structured law enforcement. Even you can't truely say that it won't happen. You must be rich beyond your wildest dreams, being able to predict the future and all.
    Certainly, you should askquestions and bring up ideas for critical discussion. Don't feel timid about that, but expect also critical discussion if a question oridea warrants it. I felt the concernyou presented warrantedcritical discussion. This does not mean you shouldn't have brought it up. I believe you sincerely had this concern in your mind.

    You asked for people to speculate onthe future, by the very way you state your concern. I gave you what you asked for: my speculation on the future with regard to your concern, alongwith thereasoning for thatbased in the here-and-now. What's with the"You must be rich beyond your wildest dreams, being able to predict the future and all"?
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Venator wrote:
    If you are married sorry to hear about that
    LOL, not the response I expected.


    @DanM, this is becoming a philosophical debate more-so then anything else, let's just drop it. It isn't worth it.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    ethernetweb wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    If you are married sorry to hear about that
    LOL, not the response I expected.


    @DanM, this is becoming a philosophical debate more-so then anything else, let's just drop it. It isn't worth it.
    I think that was DanM's point all along.

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