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Thread: Examiner.com: Obama official says Second Amendment applies to states

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    Please SUBSCRIBE to this column, and DIGG & REDITT:

    http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gu...lies-to-states

    SNIP

    Recently confirmed by the Senate, academic Cass Sunstein from Harvard law School is now the Obama Administration's "regulatory czar." Gun Owners of America has warned: Expect problems!. . .

    [But] in 2007 Professor Sunstein gave a fascinating lecture in which . . . [n]ot only does Sunstein note at time hack 37:20 that gun control advocates' claims that gun control contributes fantastically to public safety "appears not to be sufficiently supported in social science," but more importantly, at the end of his lecture,he states at time hack 57:47:

    "And here's a point for the Second Amendment advocates, a concession for them, something on which I think they are correct. If the Second Amendment does create an individual right, rather than a collective right or a civic right, then incorporationdoes follow."

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    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    Well Hall e f*&king Leujah, Mike. Sunstien is still nuttier than a damned fruitcake.

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    I hope it is fitting to repeat this here:
    The White House, hoping to allay fears of a security threat, has said that people are entitled to carry weapons outside such events if local laws allow it. "There are laws that govern firearms that are done state or locally," spokesman Robert Gibbs said. "Those laws don't change when the president comes to your state or locality." ~ NBC News Washington
    If not, please let me know, and I will delete it.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    It takes an academic 'Geen-yus' to tell us low life peons what we've known since Christ was a cowboy?

    Uh... yeah gibbs... the state laws remain in effect even when the Messiahis a'messiah'n'

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    It takes an academic 'Geen-yus' to tell us low life peons what we've known since Christ was a cowboy?

    Uh... yeah gibbs... the state laws remain in effect even when the Messiahis a'messiah'n'
    Yes. But, isn't is good news to hear it affirmed by the guys from whom we would never wouldhave expected to have affirmedit? I don't know whether to be more hopeful or more confused.:?

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    opencarrybilly wrote:
    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    It takes an academic 'Geen-yus' to tell us low life peons what we've known since Christ was a cowboy?

    Uh... yeah gibbs... the state laws remain in effect even when the Messiahis a'messiah'n'
    Yes. But, isn't is good news to hear it affirmed by the guys from whom we would never wouldhave expected to have affirmedit? I don't know whether to be more hopeful or more confused.:?
    Be very vigilant. These people have a notorious record for lying through their teeth. It could all be just a rouge to get us to let our guard down.

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    opencarrybilly wrote:
    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    It takes an academic 'Geen-yus' to tell us low life peons what we've known since Christ was a cowboy?

    Uh... yeah gibbs... the state laws remain in effect even when the Messiahis a'messiah'n'
    Yes. But, isn't is good news to hear it affirmed by the guys from whom we would never wouldhave expected to have affirmedit? I don't know whether to be more hopeful or more confused.:?
    Be very vigilant. These people have a notorious record for lying through their teeth. It could all be just a rouge to get us to let our guard down.
    Agreed. That's why I remain confused. :? But, what better have we seen in the past XXX years? The first election for which I was qualified (at age 21) to vote was 1960. Never yet seen anything like this. I see potential, if not hope. Indeed, I see hope. Obama, in spite of all we hear, is, I am told, a Constitutional law scholar. And, many times in history we have seen people, after been elected to high office, surprise us with actions much differentfrom whatwe might have expected from their past performance. Might we hope?

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    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    Cass Sunstein is a dangerous nutjob. As regulatory Czar he has some very broad reaching powers. Be very diligent.
    Keep your powder dry!
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    McX
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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    SNIP: But Sunstein's pronouncement that if the Second Amendment provides an individual rightagainst federal power (which we now know it does under Heller),

    Mike, I think the above statement in red should read: "which has now been affirmed under Heller". I knew it was an individual right from reading the framers when I was about 13-14 years old.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    McX wrote:
    and how many heavily armed security personnel does the President have protecting him when he travels? How many sharpshooter, snipers? Probably armored vehicles around as well. All the Open Carrier gets is one lone weapon, visible on his hip, for his personal protection.
    My rifle doesn't fit on my hip.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Thundar wrote:
    My rifle doesn't fit on my hip.
    You're lucky. Mine does.

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    opencarrybilly wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    My rifle doesn't fit on my hip.
    You're lucky.Â* Mine does.
    You got some big-ass hips then!

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    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    Here is the latest tack by the antis, given to me by some college student (And I bet this was that idiot Professor Banzhaff or whatever his name is up in GWU School of Law): The Second Amendment DOES confer an INDIVIDUAL right,

    However.

    The INDIVIDUAL RIGHT CONFERRED is the "right to serve in the military"; therefore the Second Amendment makes "don't ask/don't tell unconstitutional.:shock:

    I wish I could tell you guys I was kidding, but boy these snakes really know how to twist things, now don't they??

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    Mike wrote:
    "And here's a point for the Second Amendment advocates, a concession for them, something on which I think they are correct. If the Second Amendment does create an individual right, rather than a collective right or a civic right, then incorporationdoes follow."
    That's a mighty big "if", coming from Sunstein.



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    Thing is... some of the articles I've read about him along with some interviews, while yes he does come off as a certifiable whackjob, he's all over the place in terms of theories and commentary.

    Taken by themselves, they *ARE* often logically consistent and thorough.

    Based on what I've read from other posters here, I was suprised to find that he has written several things that are PRO 2-A (one of which was posted earlier on).

    I'm not certain where to sit politically with him. That could very well be his intentions too. Keeps his detractors / opponents off-balance.

    Given the arguments of his I've read so far are rather well thought out and consistent in their logic, I have to respect him for that.

    I guess time will tell whether he's truly one of us, one of them, or one who simply doesn't care.

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    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    Anybody who says that YOUR DOG should be able to hire a lawyer and SUE YOU is COMPLETELY OUT OF HIS MIND.

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    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Alexcabbie wrote:
    Anybody who says that YOUR DOG should be able to hire a lawyer and SUE YOU is COMPLETELY OUT OF HIS MIND.
    That's the bottom line. Further, I don't care of Obozo himself joins GOA, and open carries himself. Everything else about this regime is unimpressive at best. None of the things he's tried to do are inline with my views. What good are gun rights when you have to sell all your guns because your president has crushed the free market and you still don't have a job.
    If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training. You will become a minister of death, PRAYING FOR WAR...

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    Please digg it if you haven't. It's at 10 diggs right now.

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    NightOwl wrote:
    Please digg it if you haven't. It's at 10 diggs right now.
    Yeah, and you can create more DIGG accounts if you have more email addresses

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Perhaps he was just saying that it is inevitable that incorporation is going to happen. Not necessarily that it's what he wants.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    rodbender wrote:
    Perhaps he was just saying that it is inevitable that incorporation is going to happen. Not necessarily that it's what he wants.
    Well, the legal academy thinks in terms of doctrines, sort of like a scientist thinks in terms of physical laws- a doctrine that says after the civil war fundemental rights formerly applicable only to constrain federal power now apply to the state power too cannot be easily bent to omit the Second Amendment once it is held to provide an individual right - as Sunstein says, it "does follow."

    The interesting part will then be, what does the individual rightrealy mean - to carry in public? To own without registration? To be be able to buy a gun from a dealer at age 18?

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    Mike wrote:
    rodbender wrote:
    Perhaps he was just saying that it is inevitable that incorporation is going to happen. Not necessarily that it's what he wants.
    Well, the legal academy thinks in terms of doctrines, sort of like a scientist thinks in terms of physical laws- a doctrine that says after the civil war fundemental rights formerly applicable only to constrain federal power now apply to the state power too cannot be easily bent to omit the Second Amendment once it is held to provide an individual right - as Sunstein says, it "does follow."

    The interesting part will then be, what does the individual rightrealy mean - to carry in public? To own without registration? To be be able to buy a gun from a dealer at age 18?
    yes, yes, and yes.

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    cbackous wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    rodbender wrote:
    Perhaps he was just saying that it is inevitable that incorporation is going to happen. Not necessarily that it's what he wants.
    Well, the legal academy thinks in terms of doctrines, sort of like a scientist thinks in terms of physical laws- a doctrine that says after the civil war fundemental rights formerly applicable only to constrain federal power now apply to the state power too cannot be easily bent to omit the Second Amendment once it is held to provide an individual right - as Sunstein says, it "does follow."

    The interesting part will then be, what does the individual rightrealy mean - to carry in public? To own without registration? To be be able to buy a gun from a dealer at age 18?
    yes, yes, and yes.
    We can only "HOPE"
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    Mike wrote:
    rodbender wrote:
    Perhaps he was just saying that it is inevitable that incorporation is going to happen. Not necessarily that it's what he wants.
    Well, the legal academy thinks in terms of doctrines, sort of like a scientist thinks in terms of physical laws- a doctrine that says after the civil war fundemental rights formerly applicable only to constrain federal power now apply to the state power too cannot be easily bent to omit the Second Amendment once it is held to provide an individual right - as Sunstein says, it "does follow."

    The interesting part will then be, what does the individual rightrealy mean - to carry in public? To own without registration? To be be able to buy a gun from a dealer at age 18?
    Well, it does state 'the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed'.

    Given that every person is part of 'the people'... it would seem to be cut and dry IMO. But hey, I was only taught to read / speak the words as written.

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