Hydrostatic Shock From Bullets, Better Than Large Caliber?

Trent · Sep 16, 2009

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I have done some research into hydrostatic shock as an alternative to simply a large caliber (.45). It seems that .357 Sig does a nice job, while maintaining a small size.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrostatic_shock)

In short, Hydrostatic shock is when a bullet causes shock to the body, making each shot more effective. I think.

What do you guys think? (also, its a pleasure to be on opencarry.org, a great place you guys got here)

Trent

Wheelgunner · Sep 16, 2009

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Hi Trent.

Glad you are carrying a "game changer" in other words a weapon that will quickly render the gunfight over with you as the victor.

That said, there is a great deal of debate as to what that really means. The .45 has a great deal of stats to recommend it; with hollowpoint, high velocity ammo making it even better.

The 10mm has a lot going for it, with 135 gr ammo from Double Tap acting at 41 Magnum levels or the 175 grain Silvertip by Winchester.

The 357 Sig is hot, with a 125 grain bullet at a good 1400 fps in a good gun (try to get a 5 inch barrel).

In revolvers, the 357 Magnum (and by extension the 357 Sig) is THE top man stopping round in 125 grain soft hollowpoints. The 41 Magnum or 44 Magnum are there as well but too powerful for a beginner but with the 44 you can shoot 44 Special or reload low powered 44 mag practice loads forever.

Any of these selections is what might be considered a major stopper.

Second tier calibers are 9mm+P, 40 S&W, 44 Special, etc are fine rounds, but do not have the energy/velocity numbers you are seeking.

The argument for which is better is loud and complex. My recommendation is buy what you can get a lot of ammo to shoot say 1000 rounds a year. This can be hardball or you have to commit to reloading, or just a lot of money but just make sure you are getting in the practice.

Good Luck and Welcome.

Tawnos · Sep 16, 2009

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Wheelgunner wrote:

Hi Trent.

Glad you are carrying a "game changer" in other words a weapon that will quickly render the gunfight over with you as the victor.

That said, there is a great deal of debate as to what that really means. The .45 has a great deal of stats to recommend it; with hollowpoint, high velocity ammo making it even better.

The 10mm has a lot going for it, with 135 gr ammo from Double Tap acting at 41 Magnum levels or the 175 grain Silvertip by Winchester.

The 357 Sig is hot, with a 125 grain bullet at a good 1400 fps in a good gun (try to get a 5 inch barrel).

In revolvers, the 357 Magnum (and by extension the 357 Sig) is THE top man stopping round in 125 grain soft hollowpoints. The 41 Magnum or 44 Magnum are there as well but too powerful for a beginner but with the 44 you can shoot 44 Special or reload low powered 44 mag practice loads forever.

Any of these selections is what might be considered a major stopper.

Second tier calibers are 9mm+P, 40 S&W, 44 Special, etc are fine rounds, but do not have the energy/velocity numbers you are seeking.

The argument for which is better is loud and complex. My recommendation is buy what you can get a lot of ammo to shoot say 1000 rounds a year. This can be hardball or you have to commit to reloading, or just a lot of money but just make sure you are getting in the practice.

Good Luck and Welcome.

Don't .40S&W and the 10mm have nearly identical statistics?

Wheelgunner · Sep 16, 2009

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Only in anemic downloaded stuff. Good 10mm pushes a 165gr bullet at 1450fps. The difference is comparable to the 38 Special vs the 357 Mag.

See good 10mm Ammo here: http://tinyurl.com/fnerw

steble01 · Sep 17, 2009

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if you seek a true "man stopper" then you need to carry a rifle, as rifle rounds are th real one hit wonders (or a .50AE but good luck controlling that). since we really cant do that, i say pick whatever round/pistol combo you are most accurate and comfortable with......i tend to stay with 9mm for a couple reasons, round capacity, cheap, readily available, quicker recovery time after your shot as compared to a .45acp. though the .40s&w round has grown on me, and it seems to be a good middle of the road choice.

i havent personally shot the .357sig, but i hear they are pretty good little rounds.

Hammer · Sep 17, 2009

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If you are curious about terminal ballistics, it is far better (maybe easier is the term I want) to study them in regards to game animals. The same effects cover all warm-blooded critters, be they 4-legged or 2.
Tho the debate will always rage, most will agree the first order of preference is placement. If you can't get the shot where it is effective, even large caliber projectiles will not incapacitate. It's pretty easy to imagine: Will a .45 cal slug to an extremity incapacitate a mammal? Generally, no.
So, to answer your question, my response is to shoot the largest caliber you can effectively put on target.
FWIW, I shoot a lot of boolits into water and wet compressed paper to judge their effectiveness. While that won't show hydrostatic shock, it will show penetration and wound channel size.
If it's big and dangerous, I'd prefer my .44 Mag or .45 LC.
If it's a couple hunnert pounds and there might be several, I like lots of capacity.
There it's a Glock 20 and 15 round mags.
Practice, practice, practice.
A shot's gotta be on target to do its job.

Lante · Sep 18, 2009

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"If you shoot a man with a Colt 45 and he is still standing . . . . . . walk around behind him and see what he is propped up against"

I carry a 45lc with a 310 gr hollowpoint powered by 24.5 gr of H110 powder = muz vel of 1,195. Big, fast and heavy.
(BTW that is a permanent wound channel of 1.24" inches)

If you are really looking for the "stopping power" of a round use the “Taylor Index”, which integrates calibre and momentum to generate a relative value that is a guide to the potential of a round to incapacite a target.

TKO value = [ Weight (gr) x Terminal Velocity (fps) x calibre (in) ] ÷ 7000

The basic TKO offers a indication of the minimal performance one could expect from a round. A load with a higher TKO will usually be a better choice for defensive applications.

Most pistol hollowpoint rounds are designed to expand to 150% of their original diameter, so you multiply the calibre by 1.5 to get an idea of how the round will perform if it mushrooms. Since the likelihood of mushrooming is not precise the TKO value is expressed as a range rather than an average. A 230gr Hollowpoint .45 at 850fps has a TKO of 12.57-18.85 and a 124gr 9mm Hollowpoint at 1200fps has a TKO of 7.55-11.32.

Still with me??? :celebrate the 45lc is better (even with the wimpy 230gr factory non Ruger loads....)

Hydrostatic Shock From Bullets, Better Than Large Caliber?

Trent

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Wheelgunner

Regular Member

Tawnos

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Wheelgunner

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steble01

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Hammer

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Lante

Regular Member