Fitchburg man kills intruder

Cobbersmom · Sep 16, 2009

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Sounds good so far, especially because it's in one of those 'well heeled' neighborhoods. Like those are the only folks who need protection.
Sue

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/lo...cle_b4185a76-a2fd-11de-8aa7-001cc4c002e0.html

"A man who was most likely trying to break into a home in a well-heeled neighborhood in Fitchburg was shot and killed Wednesday afternoon by one of the home's residents, police said.
The shooting at 2969 Osmundsen Road, in the Seminole Hills area, happened just before 2 p.m. While the investigation into the incident was continuing Wednesday night, police said no charges were pending against the shooter, who they declined to name but said was the adult son of the home's owners, Peter and Mei Chen."
more in link

Pal · Sep 17, 2009

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Cobbersmom wrote:

Sounds good so far, especially because it's in one of those 'well heeled' neighborhoods. Like those are the only folks who need protection.
Sue

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/crime_and_courts/article_b4185a76-a2fd-11de-8aa7-001cc4c002e0.html

"A man who was most likely trying to break into a home in a well-heeled neighborhood in Fitchburg was shot and killed Wednesday afternoon by one of the home's residents, police said.
The shooting at 2969 Osmundsen Road, in the Seminole Hills area, happened just before 2 p.m. While the investigation into the incident was continuing Wednesday night, police said no charges were pending against the shooter, who they declined to name but said was the adult son of the home's owners, Peter and Mei Chen."
more in link

Well, you have to protect your live, lives of others', and so on... He did what he got to do.

HankT · Sep 17, 2009

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Not too many details yet. But it sounds like a good shoot[suB]1[/suB].

1. Not that any shooting is literally "good," just that there are justifiable ("good") shootings and "bad" (unjustifed) shootings.

gollbladder13 · Sep 17, 2009

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HankT wrote:

Not too many details yet. But it sounds like a good shoot[sub]1[/sub].

1. Not that any shooting is literally "good," just that there are justifiable ("good") shootings and "bad" (unjustifed) shootings.

Yeah, we knew what you meant, and agreed, so far sounds clean...

HankT · Sep 17, 2009

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gollbladder13 wrote:

HankT wrote:

Not too many details yet. But it sounds like a good shoot[suB]1[/suB].

1. Not that any shooting is literally "good," just that there are justifiable ("good") shootings and "bad" (unjustifed) shootings.

Click to expand...

Yeah, we knew what you meant, and agreed, so far sounds clean...

Yeah, I know...it's pretty obvious. But there are often nigglers about...ready to pounce! Witness a recent post by MSG:

MSC 45ACP wrote:

This phrase has always bothered me: "Good shoot"...

Is it good that a human life has been taken? Was there no other alternative?

In this case, maybe not. Perhaps we could be less callous and simply say "justified shooting" rather than "good shoot". Even in justifiable homicide, there are still consequences; lifelong consequences most of us never even consider.

Nightmares, feelings of guilt, difficulty adjusting to "normal" life after the event, forever wondering if you could have done something different that would change the outcome, wondering if you did the right thing. Post tramatic stress is real. Fortunately, it is treatable and survivable.

This silly phrase "good shoot" reminds me of my "childhood" as a young EMT. I'm sure a few of you know what I'm talking about. Adreneline junkies that enjoy the danger of putting out fires and pulling trapped victims from twisted wreckage of automobile accidents often use the phrase "a good call". We used to think a good call was measured in the amount of blood we had to clean from the back of the ambulance, or the number of mangled cars involved in a traffic accident, or worse: the number of victims involved and the number of emergency vehicles needed to take care of business.

I learned a while later that a "good call" was one where we were able to help someone in a bad situation, possibly even saving lives, but not revelling in their misery.

Was this a "good shoot"? Of course not. Was it Justifiable Homicide?Probably.

Nutczak · Sep 17, 2009

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So, this does not goes against Hank T's

"swollen prostate of self-defense"

statingthat it is never a good idea to shoot an unarmed man?

I hope the defender does not get dragged into the dirt withsome BS charge orlawsuit brought against him with the deceased persons relatives saying "he was a good boy, he was turning his life around, an aspiring music artist, He din't do nuffins to deserved to be killed" And then they always need to wrap up with it somehow being societies fault that the dead person was forced to rob, rape and kill people.

lets hope none of that happens.

Hank, no offense, But I figured you would be the niggler commenting on this news story.

gollbladder13 · Sep 17, 2009

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http://www.channel3000.com/news/20949183/detail.html

Middle of the article.

Fitchburn Deputy Chief says it appears to be self-defense. The intruder is dead, so can't talk, so unless the trees have eyes or they find out the parents were buddies and told the intruder to come on in for a beer whenever he wants, my guess is it will stay that way...

ETA: From the Chicago Tribune

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-wi-intruderkilled-wi,0,5542072.story

FITCHBURG, Wis. - Authorities have released the name of the man who was shot and killed after he entered a home in Fitchburg, near Madison. The Dane County coroner says the man was 42-year-old Roberto Vega-Gil of Madison. Preliminary autopsy results on Thursday show he died from a single gunshot wound. Police have said Peter Chen and his wife were not at home Wednesday afternoon when Vega-Gil entered their house, but their adult son was there. The son shot the intruder. Police have said the shooting appeared to be an act of self-defense. The investigation is ongoing. Fitchburg is located just south of Madison.

Cobbersmom · Sep 17, 2009

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HankT wrote:

Not too many details yet. But it sounds like a good shoot[sub]1[/sub].

1. Not that any shooting is literally "good," just that there are justifiable ("good") shootings and "bad" (unjustifed) shootings.

Yup, your good means the same as my good.

HankT · Sep 17, 2009

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Nutczak wrote:

So, this does not goes against Hank T's "swollen prostate of self-defense" statingthat it is never a good idea to shoot an unarmed man?

No, of course not. HPCSD has never said that "it is never a good idea to shoot an unarmed man." Please brush up on your reading skillz.Here it is, for your ready reference:

HankT's Postulateof Civilian Self-Defense (HPCSD):

It is a bad strategy to shoot an unarmed person.

HPCSD simply says that by the time you have to shoot an unarmed person, if you indeed have to shoot him, you have developed and followed a poor self-defense strategy (or have failed to follow a sound self-defense strategy).

See the further explanations and insights into this world-renown postulate at:

HankT's Postulate of Civilian Self-Defense

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum60/30638.html

gollbladder13 · Sep 17, 2009

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It is, in my mind, a worse strategy to assume an intruder is unarmed and kindly ask him to leave...

Each scenario is different. We'll see what happens with this one...

Would the news say armed if it were a knife? Yeah, but they'd say armed with a knife. I don't know if unarmed includes having a knife or not...

Then again, we know from recent events (if not from before) that the news can be less than accurate...

Flipper · Sep 17, 2009

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Remember, Wisconsin has no castle doctrine (a bill to put one in place is being held upin thestate senate by a Milwaukee committee chair).

Brendon .45 · Sep 17, 2009

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Any word on how he broke in? Did he jimmy the door or a window with a screwdriver or something. Something like this could also be considered a weapon but probably not reported as such by the media.

I was just talking about this with my wife (who, when we first started dating, said there would be no guns in our house; now I evenhave one in my nightstand...). She was under the impression that shooting anyone who is unarmed, even someone breaking into your house,meant automatic prison term. She was quite adamant about it; you know she IS always right

opusd2 · Sep 17, 2009

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Being that it happened in Fitchburg, I'm surprised there was only one person who broke in, and that Tammy Baldwin hasn't somehow come up with a defense for him doing so.

Every now and then it's good to hear of someone exercising their rights and not finding a world of trouble behind it. But I'm being cautious with this optimism.

J.Gleason · Sep 17, 2009

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Someone breaks into my house....Chick Chick Boom it's over.

HankT · Sep 17, 2009

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J.Gleason wrote:

Someone breaks into my house....Chick Chick Boom it's over.

1. What if you are not in fear of severe physical harm or death?

2. What if it's an unarmedwoman?

3. What if it's an unarmed kid?

Sgt_Habz · Sep 17, 2009

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HankT wrote:

J.Gleason wrote:

Someone breaks into my house....Chick Chick Boom it's over.

Click to expand...

1. What if you are not in fear of severe physical harm or death?

2. What if it's an unarmedwoman?

3. What if it's an unarmed kid?

I understand the legal complications that J.Gleason's approach might cause, but nevertheless would have to agree and emulate myself.

Breaking into my house goes far beyond my views of RKBA and triggers my primal instinct to protect and defend my life and the life of my wife and unborn child. When seconds matter, I will not be takingprecious momentsto ask if the intruder is an unarmed woman or kid. I will assume, based in the immediate circumstances that they broke into my house, that this could be a worst case scenario and in order to be effective in protecting me and mine, I will use whatever force I need to negate any and all threats.

By no means is this approach for everyone, but if you want to give your intruder the benefit of the doubt and the luxury of a few extra moments to think and react, please feel free.

HankT · Sep 17, 2009

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Sgt_Habz wrote:

HankT wrote:

J.Gleason wrote:

Someone breaks into my house....Chick Chick Boom it's over.

Click to expand...

1. What if you are not in fear of severe physical harm or death?

2. What if it's an unarmedwoman?

3. What if it's an unarmed kid?

Click to expand...

I understand the legal complications that J.Gleason's approach might cause, but nevertheless would have to agree and emulate myself.

Breaking into my house goes far beyond my views of RKBA and triggers my primal instinct to protect and defend my life and the life of my wife and unborn child. When seconds matter, I will not be takingprecious momentsto ask if the intruder is an unarmed woman or kid. I will assume, based in the immediate circumstances that they broke into my house, that this could be a worst case scenario and in order to be effective in protecting me and mine, I will use whatever force I need to negate any and all threats.

4. What if it's some drunk guy and you find him passed out just inside the door when you get home?

gollbladder13 · Sep 18, 2009

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In my book, an intruder deserves getting drawn on. Everything from there is circumstantial...

JimE · Sep 18, 2009

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I'm somewhat miffed by how the authorities (or at least what the media is saying) seem to be down playing this. It's almost as if they are too quick in saying, "Yup, yup...cut n' dry self-defense, nothing to see here. Step back yolks, go home now, thank you".

Do they not want to press the issue out of feara publized court case would then put pressure on the legislature to draft up an official castle doctrine of some sort?

Brass Magnet · Sep 18, 2009

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They had a section of the news devoted to this last night. They even had a lawyer on that clarified when it's ok to use deadly force in Wisconsin. They showed a guy target practicing with his pistol and interviewed him. And get this: NOT ONCE did the media say anything bad about using a firearm for self defense! :shock:

Of course, they did talk to the robbers wife or fiance or what have you. All the cliche's came out. "He was a good guy. He had really turned his life around. He may have robbed people but he was never violent or agressive". In any case, she came off as a nutter so that was good.

I'm sorry that someone had to lose their life and that someone else will have to live with the fact that he took the life of another but overall I thinkthis has been a good eye-opener for those folks sitting on the fence.

Fitchburg man kills intruder

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