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Preemption over town/city/county parks?

Regular_Joe

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Culpeper, Virginia, USA
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Does the commonwealth's preemption cover county or city parks and sports fields? I'd like to OC in our town's park, but I have never seen anyone OC'ing anywhere in town. Same with local sport's fields - some of our kid's games are evening and it is very dark and wooded - I'd like the option of OC'ing. I haven't seen any posted signs anywhere...
 

Jero1987

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As far as I know, you should be fine. I OC in lynchburg city parks and peeks view park (nearby) every time I go. Never had any trouble with any LEO's, but lots of :shock:.
 

Jero1987

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On another note:

Most city and county parks are maintained by tax payers, thus public property. So just like your local library they cant restrict you from carrying.

The lynchburg public library hates me, for some reason everytime I leave the building, my gun sets off the anti-theft book scanner.... hehe.:lol:
 

Grapeshot

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§ 15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies.
A. No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by § 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization.

http://vaguninfo.com/pages/opencarry.htm

Yata hey
 

Regular_Joe

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Grapeshot wrote:
§ 15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies.
A. No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by § 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization.

http://vaguninfo.com/pages/opencarry.htm

Yata hey
Excellent - I am looking the rest of this up now. This is why I appreciate this forum - you guys teach us new folks 'how to fish'!
 

Grapeshot

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We all learn more here than any one of us could possibly contribute singularly. I know I have and I'm still learning - everyday.

"Ride Hard, Shoot Straight, Speak the Truth," so saith the great one.

Yata hey
 

Mailman

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Virginia
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Regular_Joe wrote:
Guys, thanks for the confirmation. I know county gov't locations are off limits - wasn't sure about county maintained sports parks!

Hey everybody. Please correct me if I am wrong, but you can carry in county government buildings -- can you not?

I thought the courts were the non-carry places. If you wanted to go pay your real estate taxes, go talk to your sheriff, etc. then those were okay places to carry.

Please let me know if I am right or wrong.

Thanks
 

ed

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Regular_Joe wrote:
I know county gov't locations are off limits
you do? how do you know that? or why do you think that? (jails and post offices, k-12 schools and detention centers and federal property and courthouses are).. but county goovernment locations are not "off limits".. even with a sign :)
 

Grapeshot

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Mailman wrote:
Regular_Joe wrote:
Guys, thanks for the confirmation. I know county gov't locations are off limits - wasn't sure about county maintained sports parks!

Hey everybody. Please correct me if I am wrong, but you can carry in county government buildings -- can you not?

I thought the courts were the non-carry places. If you wanted to go pay your real estate taxes, go talk to your sheriff, etc. then those were okay places to carry.

Please let me know if I am right or wrong.

Thanks
City, state and county buildings - yes generally speaking, but not "court" rooms or buildings. Same source/cite as above.

Even the General Assembly building - but only if you have a permit - OK for OC or CC - Joint Rules Committee decision/rule, not statute.

This is where the rub comes in. As an example the Chesterfield clerks office is in the same (multi-use) building as some court rooms - the check point is at the main exterior door. We should be able to see the clerk w/o disarming but it ain't so. Detectors and such should be at the entrance hallway to the court - but are not. No one has challenged this apparent violation yet.

Be aware - check out questionable situations first - unless you are willing to be a test case. :? If you see a check point, stop and reevaluate.

Yata hey
 

nova

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US
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Grapeshot wrote:
Mailman wrote:
Regular_Joe wrote:
Guys, thanks for the confirmation. I know county gov't locations are off limits - wasn't sure about county maintained sports parks!

Hey everybody. Please correct me if I am wrong, but you can carry in county government buildings -- can you not?

I thought the courts were the non-carry places. If you wanted to go pay your real estate taxes, go talk to your sheriff, etc. then those were okay places to carry.

Please let me know if I am right or wrong.

Thanks
City, state and county buildings - yes generally speaking, but not "court" rooms or buildings. Same source/cite as above.

Even the General Assembly building - but only if you have a permit - OK for OC or CC - Joint Rules Committee decision/rule, not statute.

This is where the rub comes in. As an example the Chesterfield clerks office is in the same (multi-use) building as some court rooms - the check point is at the main exterior door. We should be able to see the clerk w/o disarming but it ain't so. Detectors and such should be at the entrance hallway to the court - but are not. No one has challenged this apparent violation yet.

Be aware - check out questionable situations first - unless you are willing to be a test case. :? If you see a check point, stop and reevaluate.

Yata hey
If anyone is familiar with Fairfax, they'll know about an interesting situation at the City Hall building. There is a DMV office there but also in the building are a few court rooms. There was no signs or checkpoints at any of the building entrances, I can only assume the metal detectors were whereever the courtrooms were.
 

Regular_Joe

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Culpeper, Virginia, USA
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ed wrote:
Regular_Joe wrote:
I know county gov't locations are off limits
you do? how do you know that? or why do you think that? (jails and post offices, k-12 schools and detention centers and federal property and courthouses are).. but county goovernment locations are not "off limits".. even with a sign :)
Sorry - I should have clarified - The town of Culpeper is fairly small, so some of the gov't offices are located at the courthouse... Although I do appreciate you making the point - it is a good one.

As new as I am, an official sign at the Fairfax County Gov't Center would be enough to deter me until I spent some time learning the actual law, which is why I like grapeshot throwing in the legal referencing.
 

mobeewan

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Oct 5, 2007
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Hampton, Va, ,
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Grapeshot wrote:
Mailman wrote:
Regular_Joe wrote:
Guys, thanks for the confirmation. I know county gov't locations are off limits - wasn't sure about county maintained sports parks!

Hey everybody. Please correct me if I am wrong, but you can carry in county government buildings -- can you not?

I thought the courts were the non-carry places. If you wanted to go pay your real estate taxes, go talk to your sheriff, etc. then those were okay places to carry.

Please let me know if I am right or wrong.

Thanks
City, state and county buildings - yes generally speaking, but not "court" rooms or buildings. Same source/cite as above.

Even the General Assembly building - but only if you have a permit - OK for OC or CC - Joint Rules Committee decision/rule, not statute.

This is where the rub comes in. As an example the Chesterfield clerks office is in the same (multi-use) building as some court rooms - the check point is at the main exterior door. We should be able to see the clerk w/o disarming but it ain't so. Detectors and such should be at the entrance hallway to the court - but are not. No one has challenged this apparent violation yet.

Be aware - check out questionable situations first - unless you are willing to be a test case. :? If you see a check point, stop and reevaluate.

Yata hey
Chesterfields courthouse could be like Hamptons. In Hampton they put in metal detectors right inside theentrance. When going through the doors you would make an immediate right turn down a hallway that ran allong the front of the building to go to the crlerks office. You used to not have to go through the detectorto go to the clerks office. Last few times I went to the clerks office I had to go through the metal detectors. I think they started doing it because there are other ways out through the back of the clerks office that lead to other parts of the courthousethe metal detectors were originally screening access to.
 

skidmark

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again, and certainly not for the last time, i cite THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS OF LEE COUNTY V. EDGAR BACON, COMMISSIONER OF ACCOUNTS OF LEE COUNTY and the definition of what is a courthouse in a multi-purpose building, as decided in Record No. 740711 on April 28, 1975 as noted at http://www.virginia1774.org/CourthouseArea.html
Only that portion of building appointed for use of circuit court constitutes the courthouse
it is too bad that we have not bothered to remind the local justices and sheriffs of this ruling.

stay safe.

skidmark
 

ProShooter

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Mar 23, 2008
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www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
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I can tell you that at the main courthouse in C'field, there are 2 entrances.

The main entrance allows you into the GD/CC courts, clerk's office, etc and has a metal detector.

There is a second entrance that allows you to enter the Sheriff's Office, Victim/Witness offices, etc and it also has a metal detector because the same hallway takes you to a staircase/elevators that go directly to the courtrooms. There is a Deputy posted at that entrance in a security room. You won't be allowed past that point with a firearm.
 

wylde007

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Jan 23, 2009
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Va Beach, Occupied VA
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In Virginia Beach and Chesapeake it is IMPOSSIBLE to conduct any court business without passing through a metal detector.

In Virginia Beach even cell phones are prohibited in the Courthouse building. Dolts.
 

Wangmuf

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Sep 17, 2009
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Alexandria, Fairfax County VA, ,
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wylde007 wrote:
In Virginia Beach even cell phones are prohibited in the Courthouse building. Dolts.

Fairfax County prohibits camera phones. It was explained to me by a front desk sitter that this is for the safety of witnesses, jurors, CAs and judges, since it's almost impossible to buy a cell without a camera these days. They don't want angry convicts family members taking pictures of potential targets.
 

TFred

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Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
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Well I am certainly not a lawyer, but... from reading the resources that have been provided here and taking a plain reading of the code of Virginia, it sure seems to me that local jurisdictions are preempted from prohibiting the carrying of firearms in the areas of any buildings that are not used by the actual courts or court offices themselves.

The case discussed at the link provide by skidmark says "Only that portion of building appointed for use of circuit court constitutes courthouse", and the Virginia code is quite clear as well: "It shall be unlawful for any person to possess in or transport into any courthouse in this Commonwealth..."

When you add those two up, the rooms in a building that are not used by the courts, are not the "courthouse" and thus, not an area that is prohibited to carry. And of course we all know that our friend § 15.2-915 prevents local jurisdictions from setting up their own firearms rules.

I'm sure it would be quite expensive for a lot of places to change their security setup to comply with this, and it may be conceivable that some buildings would be unable to comply at all.

Having said that, it would be somewhat entertaining when you go into a "courthouse" for non-court related business next time, to mention to the deputy, etc, who is manning the magnetometer that "oh by the way, do you know that you are in violation of State law here?"

It seems we've enjoyed a fairly good run of success with preemption by just "reminding" folks that the law is clear, and that they are in violation. It would be real interesting to see what the reaction would be to a similar letter to the Sheriff, etc, of a jurisdiction where there is a clear violation like this. I'm sure they would run it by the local Commonwealth's Attorney, and one might have to also point out the case law which defines "courthouse".

My "top of the head" guess is that they would ignore it and make you sue them to comply, and in so doing, they would hope that a current court would change their mind and establish a new precedent. If one were to do this, it would be best to do it in a jurisdiction with reasonable judges... as in not north!

TFred
 

ProShooter

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TFred wrote:
The case discussed at the link provide by skidmark says "Only that portion of building appointed for use of circuit court constitutes courthouse", and the Virginia code is quite clear as well: "It shall be unlawful for any person to possess in or transport into any courthouse in this Commonwealth..."



I just reread that opinion, and oddly enough, I can read it in 2 different ways.

"Only that portion of building appointed for use of circuit court constitutes courthouse" -

Does that mean that a "courthouse" as we know it that is only used by the General District or JVDR Courts is not really a courthouse?

or...

does the sentence "Only that portion of building appointed for use of circuit court constitutes courthouse" imply that they were talking specifically about the Circuit Court of Lee County since that was the particular court in question? If the building in question was used by the Juvenile Court of Henrico County, would the argument still be the same or would it be moot since the decision only mentions a Circuit Court inparticular?

Are you as confused reading my question as I am asking it?
 
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