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Thread: Mayor proposes gun ban at city-park facilities

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    Mayor proposes gun ban at city-park facilities
    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...yndication=rss

    Mayor Greg Nickels today proposed a ban on guns in city-parks facilities frequented by children.

    By Susan Gilmore

    Seattle Times staff reporter



    Mayor Greg Nickels today proposed a ban on guns in city-park facilities, specifically to protect children.

    The ban would include playgrounds, community centers, sports fields, swimming pools and water-play areas.

    The proposal is not as far-reaching as Nickels' proposal last year to ban guns in all city facilities. That proposal came on the heels of a shooting at the Northwest Folklife festival. But State Attorney General Rob McKenna said then that Nickels didn't have the authority to prohibit guns on public property.

    In his new proposal, Nickels said signs will be posted notifying the public about the gun ban.

    "These are the places where our children and families gather and it is common sense that community centers, playgrounds and swimming pools are safer without guns," said Nickels.

    The gun-ban proposal would affect 26 community centers, four environmental-learning centers, 10 pools, 30 wading pools, two small craft centers, two specialized centers, at tennis courts, 139 playgrounds, 213 ballfields, six late-night recreation sites, three teen-life centers and 82 outdoor tennis and basketball courts.

    According to the city, more than 1.8 million people visited and attended programs in park facilities last year. More than 108,000 children visited wading pools and more than 59,000 events were scheduled at sports fields.

    In 2008, the city introduced a policy that requires organizations that lease Seattle Center and other city property to take steps to prohibit guns, such as providing lockboxes at Seattle Center. Nickels says that lease policy will now be made law through an executive order.

    He has urged state lawmakers to ban assault weapons, require criminal-background checks at gun shows and require trigger locks and safe storage of firearms in an effort to reduce gun violence.

    According to the mayor's office, state law restricts the possession of firearms in schools, courts, jails and areas that serve alcohol, but it does not prevent them in parks.

    Because this would not be an ordinance or law, the proposal does not carry any criminal or civil penalties. The city would train parks staff and authorize them to tell people they are not permitted to carry guns in city parks.

    The city will take comments on the proposed rule over the next two weeks. Comments can be submitted by Oct. 4 to www.seattle.gov/firearmsrule or can be mailed to Seattle Parks and Recreation Department, 100 Dexter Ave. N., Seattle 98103.

    If the parks department adopts Nickels proposal, the changes could take effect in October, as long as the signs are posted.

    Susan Gilmore: 206-464-2054 or sgilmore@seattletimes.com

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    Regular Member j2l3's Avatar
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    The man is an idiot and this is one of many reasons he is on his way out.

    What bothers me though, is that the SAF might take a wait and see approachif he does manage to get this in place.

    http://www.seattlepi.com/local/41030...tml?source=rss



    Nickels: Ban guns in places where kids go
    Critics say Seattle mayor's move won't stand up in court
    By CHRIS GRYGIEL
    SEATTLEPI.COM STAFF


    Mayor Greg Nickels on Friday proposed a rule to ban guns in more than 500 Parks and Recreations Department facilities across Seattle where children and youth go - places like sports fields, playgrounds and swimming pools.

    "These are the places where our children and families gather and it is common sense that community centers, playgrounds and swimming pools are safer without guns," Nickels said in a statement.

    Signs would be posted that say firearms are prohibited as a condition of entry into the facilities.

    Nickels' announcement is his latest attempt to ban firearms from city property. The mayor began efforts after a man shot and injured three people at the 2008 Folklife Festival at Seattle Center.

    But an opinion issued late last year by Attorney General Rob McKenna's office said cities lack the authority to ban guns because local laws would conflict with state regulations.

    Alan Gottlieb, vice president of the Bellevue-based Second Amendment Foundation, said by law Nickels can't ban firearms from parks.

    "This is probably his last blast against gun owners on his way out the door," Gottlieb said of Nickels, who was defeated in the August primary. "I don't think it's going to stick."

    Gottlieb said his organization may go to court to stop any gun ban, but might also wait to see what happens when Nickels leaves office in January.

    Alex Fryer, Nickels' spokesman, said as a property owner the city is allowed to impose conditions on people using its facilities.

    "We believe the firearm safety rule is consistent with that," Fryer said. "We are confident of our proposal and we are geared up if a legal challenge were to occur."

    If the mayor's plan is adopted Parks workers would ask people with guns to leave those designated areas. If they say no, they could be cited or arrested for trespassing, the mayor's office said.

    Locations covered by the proposed rule include: 26 community centers; four environmental learning centers; 10 pools; 30 wading pools and water play areas; 139 playgrounds and play areas and 213 ballfields.

    The city will take public comment on the proposed rule over the next two weeks. People can submit comments by Oct. 4, 2009, at http://www.seattle.gov/firearmsrule or send comments to: Seattle Parks and Recreation Department, 100 Dexter Ave. N., Seattle, WA 98103.
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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    O good lord.... :quirky

    I guess he figures he has nothing to loose now. Why not throw some hail-marry passes sincehe has already lost the game?

    Even if he does pass this "Administrative Rule" the next mayor still has to sign off on it when he takes office. It will be interesting to see if the next mayor carries on in4 Pennies footsteps, or realizes he just hurting himself more by backing feel good, toothless rules.

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    Regular Member j2l3's Avatar
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    I asked BOTH candidates their position on this exact subject after the primary.BOTH failed to respond to the question.
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    Mayor dipstick needs to go read RCW 9a.52.090. He can't trespass people if they're not breaking the law. and since this isn't a law....

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    Yea, this ordinance will fail big time. Preemption of the State Constitution will be enacted and the ordinance will be shot down.

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    Regular Member kwiebe's Avatar
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    First we had the viewpoint that signs can prevent crimes, and now politicians are going to pass "rules" for which there are no penalties...

    Heaven help us this country is nuts.

    Maybe we should all just close our eyes and make a wish and evil will disappear too.

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    http://www.seattle.gov/firearmsrule/

    here is a link to the page asking for comments regarding this proposal.

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    The mayor also made an executive order than bans guns from "city buildings".

    What qualifies as a "city building"?

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    Magix wrote:
    The mayor also made an executive order than bans guns from "city buildings".

    What qualifies as a "city building"?
    Ummmm....no. He talked about doing it but never did. He would have had his pants sued off of him.
    DISCLAIMER: This post may contain libertarian ideas and language that are consistent with the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, including a belief in liberty, rule of law, and natural rights. It may also contain opinions critical of government and the tyrannies being committed by such. If you are an authoritarian, statist, or other freedom hater, side effects of reading this post may include high blood pressure, loose stool, severe genital itching, and diarrhea of the mouth.

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    This sounds like a lottery that no one can loose at, Just wright the check and waste taxpayer money mayor Dumba** after all its not your money your going to give away.

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    I guess state pre-emption means nothing to Mayor Nipples

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    Kildars wrote:
    I guess state pre-emption means nothing to Mayor Nipples
    yup. apparently if you are hold office as a mayor you can try and break the laws "to protect the children"........believe me, my kids are very well protected, all without stupid laws that he is trying to make

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    I don't even know why he tries. This would make it to the Supreme Court and get struck down under the preemption law.

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    My post on the KOMO or KIRO site was removed by the admin. Anyone care to read it here and tell me what was wrong with it? Someone posted that it was in the best intrests of the kids to do this...

    My reply:
    We are told that it is irresponsible for us to have weapons around kids. I think it’s irresponsible for us not to teach the kids about firearms. We teach them about everything else. We tell our kids to stay away from strangers, to not play with knifes, to not play with matches, not to smoke and definitely teach them the bad things that drugs and alcohol can do to them. Why not firearms? Isn’t drunk driving just as bad as teaching them about guns? There are more kids killed in drunk driving accidents than kids killed by guns.

    Edit: Looks like they approved the text after all ( 7 hrs after I posted it)

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    Sounds like the admins are anti gun people. Oh well, lets avoid posting on their site, since they want to play that way.

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    they dont like the gov being called gregwhore

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    Hey guys, I am your everyday criminal. And because I am a criminal, I don't obey laws. Let's talk about this thing greg is trying to throw out there (which I highly doubt will stick). Because I am a criminal, I am rooting for this to pass, because if it does, that means all of you and your kids will not be safe from me should you enter a park or another city owned property LEGALLY. It states, that to enter the property, you must not bring a firearm, so you law abiding citizens with your heat on your belt or ankle or briefcase or whatever, you will be unprotected! Well, that is, if you are not skilled in the ways of Jedi. Anyways, back to the point. I am a criminal and I am looking for an easy buck. Minimal work, minimal time, good pay. What about robbery? Sounds good....but wait! a lot of citizens carry! But wait! If this were to pass...surely anybody LEGALLY in the park would be unarmed! What a perfect opportunity! So while all of you scream at the city, I will be watching on my Plasma TV (possibly stolen from one of you) and rooting for the homeboy greg! Deuces, my soon- to-be-robbed-fellas-if-this-were-to-be-passed!

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    What a load of crap. The city has bigger things to worry about and illegal feel-good measures aren't going to do anything to stop a determined criminal.

    I held back and submitted the following to the city:

    These proposed rules / policies are not going to stop anyone determined to cause problems with firearms.

    Instead, they unjustly infringe on the protected rights of individuals who legally carry firearms in defense of themselves and others.

    State law preempts local restrictions on firearms. The city will be challenged on these rules, sued and the resulting court battle will waste public resources.

    Perhaps increased attention to the issues of poverty, drug abuse, gangs and homelessness in the city would be more beneficial to society as a whole.

    I ask that you consider my message and work within the law to find real solutions to real problems.



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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Eventually Seattle will push hardto end state preemption.
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

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    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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    First post. oh hai!

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    Magix wrote:
    The mayor also made an executive order than bans guns from "city buildings".

    What qualifies as a "city building"?
    Any building owned or operated by the city. I believe Washington State Law says that municipalities may enact ordinances that restricts the possession of firearms in city buildings or city convention centers, UNLESS the person is a holder of a CPL.

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Aaron1124 wrote:
    Magix wrote:
    The mayor also made an executive order than bans guns from "city buildings".

    What qualifies as a "city building"?
    Any building owned or operated by the city. I believe Washington State Law says that municipalities may enact ordinances that restricts the possession of firearms in city buildings or city convention centers, UNLESS the person is a holder of a CPL.
    Please read the exception again...
    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.300

    Sub-section (2) (b)

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    (b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:

    (i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060; or

    (ii) Any showing, demonstration, or lecture involving the exhibition of firearms.

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    Regular Member j2l3's Avatar
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    Aaron1124 wrote:
    Magix wrote:
    The mayor also made an executive order than bans guns from "city buildings".

    What qualifies as a "city building"?
    Any building owned or operated by the city. I believe Washington State Law says that municipalities may enact ordinances that restricts the possession of firearms in city buildings or city convention centers, UNLESS the person is a holder of a CPL.
    I believe you are incorrect, please re-read the RCW.
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