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Thread: Examiner.com: Virginia OKs gun carry on trains

  1. #1
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    Please DIGG & REDDIT this hot news column:

    http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gu...arry-on-trains

    SNIP

    With all the howling this week over at the New York Times Editorial Board about Senate passage of the Wicker Amendment, its refreshing to learn that the Board of Directors of the Virginia Rail Express voted yesterday to let train riders carry loaded guns. While the Wicker Amendment passed by the Senate this week requires AMTRAK to let train riders check their unloaded guns in cases onto trains as is done by the airlines, the VRE Board passed a resolution just two days later (September 18, 2009) to let riders carry loaded guns.

    . . .

    However, as is the case in vehicle or foot travel, nobody commits a crime under federal law (unless you count DC law) for merely traveling the country while carrying your loaded gun on AMTRAK.


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    Does anybody actually open carry on the Metro? It does seem kind of dangerous. All you have to do is miss one stop (or miss hearing that one was closed) and bam.....instant felon.

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    Virginian683 wrote:
    Does anybody actually open carry on the Metro? It does seem kind of dangerous. All you have to do is miss one stop (or miss hearing that one was closed) and bam.....instant felon.
    Well, it doesn't really go anywhere interesting in Virginia. The system is designed to move people into and out of the city.

    But I could imagine OC'ing from say, Old Towne to Pentagon City Mall. Not many OCr's make trips like that, I'd imagine.

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    Well, it doesn't really go anywhere interesting in Virginia. The system is designed to move people into and out of the city.

    But I could imagine OC'ing from say, Old Towne to Pentagon City Mall. Not many OCr's make trips like that, I'd imagine.
    But when the Metro goes all the way to Dulles, it ill make for some interesting possibilities

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    Mike wrote:
    Please DIGG & REDDIT this hot news column:

    http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m9d19-Virginia-OKs-gun-carry-on-trains

    SNIP

    With all the howling this week over at the New York Times Editorial Board about Senate passage of the Wicker Amendment, its refreshing to learn that the Board of Directors of the Virginia Rail Express voted yesterday to let train riders carry loaded guns. While the Wicker Amendment passed by the Senate this week requires AMTRAK to let train riders check their unloaded guns in cases onto trains as is done by the airlines, the VRE Board passed a resolution just two days later (September 18, 2009) to let riders carry loaded guns.
    It could be interesting to read the board minutes once they are published. We will have to wait a month before that happens.

    In the meantime, before celebrating, be sure to read the amended language from the September meeting agenda:

    06.02.00 REFUSAL OF PASSAGE – Train Service Personnel may refuse a person passage on a VRE train if 1) a passenger displays a firearm in the threat of or commission of a crime. 2) he or she is in possession of explosives; dangerous weapons, such as any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knuckles, or blackjack, any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; flammable material or any other dangerous item or material; 3) he or she is apparently under the influence of drugs or alcohol; 4) his or her conduct or behavior is disorderly and disturbing to other passengers; 5) he or she is incapable of properly caring for himself or herself; or 6) civil actions are pending against him or her by VRE for fare evasion enforcement costs.
    As you can see, Preemption only applies to firearms and to no other kind of weapon; they can see that, too.

    The original tariff is here. The original refusal policy reads:

    06.02.00 REFUSAL OF PASSAGE – Train Service Personnel may refuse a person passage on a VRE train if 1) he or she is in possession of explosives, firearms, dangerous weapons, flammable material or any other dangerous item or material; 2) he or she is apparently under the influence of drugs or alcohol; 3) his or her conduct or behavior is disorderly and disturbing to other passengers; 4) he or she is incapable of properly caring for himself or herself; or 5) civil actions are pending against him or her by VRE for fare evasion enforcement costs.

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Repeater wrote:
    It could be interesting to read the board minutes once they are published. We will have to wait a month before that happens.

    In the meantime, before celebrating, be sure to read the amended language from the September meeting agenda:

    06.02.00 REFUSAL OF PASSAGE – Train Service Personnel may refuse a person passage on a VRE train if 1) a passenger displays a firearm in the threat of or commission of a crime. 2) he or she is in possession of explosives; dangerous weapons, such as any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knuckles, or blackjack, any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; flammable material or any other dangerous item or material; 3) he or she is apparently under the influence of drugs or alcohol; 4) his or her conduct or behavior is disorderly and disturbing to other passengers; 5) he or she is incapable of properly caring for himself or herself; or 6) civil actions are pending against him or her by VRE for fare evasion enforcement costs.
    Sounds like it would effectively make OC verboten until it becomes much, much more common in society, or at-least in the communities that these lines service.

    Quite the list of other weapons now...lol

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    FMCDH wrote:
    Repeater wrote:
    It could be interesting to read the board minutes once they are published. We will have to wait a month before that happens.

    In the meantime, before celebrating, be sure to read the amended language from the September meeting agenda:

    06.02.00 REFUSAL OF PASSAGE – Train Service Personnel may refuse a person passage on a VRE train if 1) a passenger displays a firearm in the threat of or commission of a crime. 2) he or she is in possession of explosives; dangerous weapons, such as any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knuckles, or blackjack, any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; flammable material or any other dangerous item or material; 3) he or she is apparently under the influence of drugs or alcohol; 4) his or her conduct or behavior is disorderly and disturbing to other passengers; 5) he or she is incapable of properly caring for himself or herself; or 6) civil actions are pending against him or her by VRE for fare evasion enforcement costs.
    Sounds like it would effectively make OC verboten until it becomes much, much more common in society, or at-least in the communities that these lines service.

    Quite the list of other weapons now...lol
    How. Mere OC is not 1) a passenger displays a firearm in the threat of or commission of a crime.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    The problem is that they left the ambiguous term "dangerous weapons" in the list of things that allows them to refuse passage. Now they did say "dangerous weapons, such as..." (followed by the wholesale cut and paste from the Virginia CHP code's list of dangerous weapons other than firearms), but on the face of it, similar to the signs we've seen elsewhere that prohibit "illegal weapons", one who is unaware of the driver behind the rule change could easily interpret it to forbid firearms as well.

    I guess we are left to wonder whether this is an intentional "oversight".

    TFred


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    TFred wrote:
    The problem is that they left the ambiguous term "dangerous weapons" in the list of things that allows them to refuse passage. Now they did say "dangerous weapons, such as..." (followed by the wholesale cut and paste from the Virginia CHP code's list of dangerous weapons other than firearms), but on the face of it, similar to the signs we've seen elsewhere that prohibit "illegal weapons", one who is unaware of the driver behind the rule change could easily interpret it to forbid firearms as well.

    I guess we are left to wonder whether this is an intentional "oversight".

    TFred
    Probably; this is the (quasi)government that we're talking about here. When gun owners inevitably get harassed, the board can claim no liability because there is no prohibition on firearms.

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    Venator wrote:
    FMCDH wrote:

    Sounds like it would effectively make OC verboten until it becomes much, much more common in society, or at-least in the communities that these lines service.

    Quite the list of other weapons now...lol
    How. Mere OC is not 1) a passenger displays a firearm in the threat of or commission of a crime.
    Yes, but with that line is the "open for interpretation" wording of THIS line....

    4) his or her conduct or behavior is disorderly and disturbing to other passengers

    Washington has a similar, but far more defined law in RCW 9.41.270, and LEOs are regularly choosing to interpret it to however they like to harass and or cite OCrs.

    I see all kinds of potential for "misinterpretation" of this line.

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    Sounds like it would effectively make OC verboten until it becomes much, much more common in society, or at-least in the communities that these lines service.
    Not really, as there's an "and" in that sentence. You'd have to be both disorderly and disturbing the other passengers. Merely disturbing the other passengers because you're OCing isn't enough.
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