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Accidental discharge in Prince William County.

DrMark

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MSC 45ACP wrote:
AD's are RARE. We all know this.

ND's (sadly) are not so rare. :banghead:

Actually, ADs are common. Most are caused by negligence, and this are also NDs.

When caused by negligence, I prefer the term ND, since it emphasizes that it could have been prevented by the use of the appropriate safety rules. However, either term (AD or ND) is accurate.
 

MSC 45ACP

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I prefer to think of "accident" as being no one's fault... an act of God or whatever higher power there be...

Negligence is a far more accurate term and is the MOST likely reason for most unintentional discharges (of firearms, anyway) ;)
 

DrMark

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MSC 45ACP wrote:
I prefer to think of "accident" as being no one's fault... an act of God or whatever higher power there be...
Next time I have an accident and rear-end the car in front of me, I'll try that one on the cop! :lol:


MSC 45ACP wrote:
Negligence is a far more accurate term and is the MOST likely reason for most unintentional discharges (of firearms, anyway) ;)
"Accidental" = "unintentional," but I think we agree that most UDs/ADs are due to negligence.
 

jegoodin

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Unfortunately, some of the laws and gun unfriendly environments in Virginia can lead to ND or AD. The more you handle the thing the more likely you are to either mishandle it or for a true accident to happen. I would suggest that handling a loaded gun in the cramped environment of a car while trying to keep others from noticing it so they can't scream "brandishing" while you are either re-arming or dis-arming is a very dangerous thing.
 

MSC 45ACP

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I must respectfully disagree. You can handle it as often as you like or wish AS LONG AS YOU UNLOAD AND CLEAR IT EVERY TIME YOU "PLAY" WITH IT or you keep your boogerhook out of the trigger guard when moving it around. "Trouble" in the form of ND's happen when people get complacent or just plain do something stupid.

I keep a round in the chamber of my .45 all day long. Every once in a while I feel like doing some dry-fire practice, room clearing, non-firing training or just plain want to caress a fabulous piece of German Engineering...
What do I do then?

1. Place weapon on SAFE.
2. Remove source of ammunition (release magazine AND lock slide to the rear and remove round in chamber)
3. INSPECT the weapon, looking down the cutaway of the slide to see the empty magazine well, look through cutaway to chamber to see no brass in chamber AND lookunder rear of slide toward muzzle. Do you see LIGHT? That means there is nothing in the BORE,either.

When moving my weapon from my holster to a place in my vehicle or somewhere else, I just keep my boogerhook OUT OF THE TRIGGER GUARD. My USP 45 won't fire itself, in spite of what some assclowns say.

If you follow these very simple rules, a NEGLIGENT DISCHARGE is virtually IMPOSSIBLE!!! ND's happen when people do boneheaded things.
 

bohdi

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PWC press releases haven't stated anything. They need to update like FFC does.

[align=left]

[align=left][/align]
[align=left][/align]
Of course, for some really cheerful and feel good information, click on the link below and hit the link for second quarter crime statistics for PWC in 09.....[/align]
http://www.pwcgov.org/default.aspx?topic=040074000390004611

All the good stuff is going up dramatically from 2008.....just in case anyone out there needed justification for buying more self protection equipment :)
 

HankT

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MSC 45ACP wrote:
AD's are RARE. We all know this.

ND's (sadly) are not so rare. :banghead:



AD's are EXTREMELY rare.

So, the VA guy almost certainly pulledthe dman trigger himselfand shot his own hand.

The probability that he was negligent is 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999997%


Oh, the embarassment!

Quick, can't we find some way to blame the antis on this one????

Or at least the NRA????

I wonder if the shooter/shootee is a member of OCDO?
 

IanB

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There is only one case known to me where a gun fired all by itself, due to forces acting upon it outside of the gun owners control. This case is actually an AD &ND at the same time.The health care staff failed to ensure the firearm was not introduced into a room containing an MRI machine, and the gun safety mechanisms failed as well. No booger picker on the press for explosion button in this example, I present for you the case of the 1911 that fired through the power of magnetism.

http://www.ajronline.org/cgi/content/full/178/5/1092

edit: orig post said police officer failed to folow instructions. That was an error.
 

MSC 45ACP

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I also know of ONE AD during my 22 year career working on small arms in the military. A Beretta 92F had an ovalhole in the safety block rather than a perfectly round one that allowed the firing pin to strike the primer when the weapon was de-cocked. That, combined with an absolutely FILTHY weapon caused the AD.

During the ensuing investigation, it was found that it came like that from the factory. Beretta USA replaced the pistol with humble apologies. If it hadn't happened to an armorer, it may have never been found. He was function firing the weapon after replacing the barrel when it happened. The pistol in question had over 100,000 rounds through it.

Sadly, if that had happened to a "regular shooter" on the line, he (or she) would have been blamed for an ND until it happened again. During testing, it didn't happen every time the pistol was decocked, just sporadically.

One of the darnedest things I ever saw. I never saw that chit happen when we had 1911's!!! :cuss::cuss:
 

TFred

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Hank, your post has botched up the formatting of this page...

Please go back and edit your post to eliminate about a hundred of your consecutive
"9"s so that word wrap will function as designed.

All readers of this thread thank you...

TFred
 

ProShooter

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TFred wrote:
Hank, your post has botched up the formatting of this page...

Please go back and edit your post to eliminate about a hundred of your consecutive
"9"s so that word wrap will function as designed.

All readers of this thread thank you...

TFred





grey%5E_%5Earial%5E_%5E0%5E_%5E0%5E_%5EFavorite+post+of+the+day%21%5E_%5E.gif
 

HankT

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Nelson_Muntz wrote:
The person was driving a tan/brown Bronco/Blazer. Anybody know a member with that vehicle?





0920-SHOT01c.jpg


Prince William Police check the door of an SUV where the driver shot himself at the Sunoco service station at the intersection of Prince William Parkway and Telegraph Road in Woodbridge on Saturday.





ND for sho'.....probability equals 1.
 

Wangmuf

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ProShooter wrote:
An accidental discharge is a failure of the weapon

A negligient discharge is a failure by the shooter.


I present an anecdotal situation:


When my ex-girlfriend and I moved into our first apartment together, I was going thru the process of showing her where I intended to keep my XD9 while at home, and where it was going to be stored. After this, I started to teach her proper gun safety, in case she ever needed it for self defense when I wasn't home. Then this happened: As the weapon was always kept loaded, full 10 in the mag and one in the pipe, I proceeded to clear the weapon. Pointed the muzzle at an exterior wall, dropped the mag and went to clear the chamber, when the firearm discharged, breech partially open. As I was already working the slide, the empty shell casing slammed backwards, hit the front of the strike plate, and fell out of the magazine well onto the floor. The striker indicator was in the "fired" position, for those of you familiar with the XD series, and there was an obvious primer strike, altho it was much shallower than strikes on brass from the range. This pistol is not supposed to fire from an open battery.

I promptly called Alexandria City 911 to report an accidental discharge, since I was sure one of my neighbors would have already made a call, and informed the operator that the front door would be open, with the weapon on the table unloaded when the police arrived. After inspecting the casing, and seeing that there were no extractor/ejector marks on it, the police left without an arrest, thank god.

This gun was retired that night, as it was out of warranty, and once bitten and all that. I picked up an M&P .40 a week or so later and have had no issues. Also, the ex NEVER EVER wanted to see a pistol again, and refused to learn how to use one. My refusal to not own one or more was a slight contributing factor in our breakup.

In conclusion, what would you all classify this as, AD or ND?
 

MSC 45ACP

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Newport News, Virginia, USA
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Wangmuf wrote:
ProShooter wrote:
An accidental discharge is a failure of the weapon

A negligient discharge is a failure by the shooter.


I present an anecdotal situation:


When my ex-girlfriend and I moved into our first apartment together, I was going thru the process of showing her where I intended to keep my XD9 while at home, and where it was going to be stored. After this, I started to teach her proper gun safety, in case she ever needed it for self defense when I wasn't home. Then this happened: As the weapon was always kept loaded, full 10 in the mag and one in the pipe, I proceeded to clear the weapon. Pointed the muzzle at an exterior wall, dropped the mag and went to clear the chamber, when the firearm discharged, breech partially open. As I was already working the slide, the empty shell casing slammed backwards, hit the front of the strike plate, and fell out of the magazine well onto the floor. The striker indicator was in the "fired" position, for those of you familiar with the XD series, and there was an obvious primer strike, altho it was much shallower than strikes on brass from the range. This pistol is not supposed to fire from an open battery.

I promptly called Alexandria City 911 to report an accidental discharge, since I was sure one of my neighbors would have already made a call, and informed the operator that the front door would be open, with the weapon on the table unloaded when the police arrived. After inspecting the casing, and seeing that there were no extractor/ejector marks on it, the police left without an arrest, thank god.

This gun was retired that night, as it was out of warranty, and once bitten and all that. I picked up an M&P .40 a week or so later and have had no issues. Also, the ex NEVER EVER wanted to see a pistol again, and refused to learn how to use one. My refusal to not own one or more was a slight contributing factor in our breakup.

In conclusion, what would you all classify this as, AD or ND?

Not knowing a thing about the XD series of pistols, I have not a clue how they operate, nor will I show my posterior by expressing an opinion of this incident one way or another.

I'm glad no one was hurt!

:)
 
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