Accidental discharge in Prince William County.

HankT · Sep 21, 2009

imported post

Wangmuf wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

An accidental discharge is a failure of the weapon

A negligient discharge is a failure by the shooter.

Click to expand...

I present an anecdotal situation:

When my ex-girlfriend and I moved into our first apartment together, I was going thru the process of showing her where I intended to keep my XD9 while at home, and where it was going to be stored. After this, I started to teach her proper gun safety, in case she ever needed it for self defense when I wasn't home. Then this happened: As the weapon was always kept loaded, full 10 in the mag and one in the pipe, I proceeded to clear the weapon. Pointed the muzzle at an exterior wall, dropped the mag and went to clear the chamber, when the firearm discharged, breech partially open. As I was already working the slide, the empty shell casing slammed backwards, hit the front of the strike plate, and fell out of the magazine well onto the floor. The striker indicator was in the "fired" position, for those of you familiar with the XD series, and there was an obvious primer strike, altho it was much shallower than strikes on brass from the range. This pistol is not supposed to fire from an open battery.

I promptly called Alexandria City 911 to report an accidental discharge, since I was sure one of my neighbors would have already made a call, and informed the operator that the front door would be open, with the weapon on the table unloaded when the police arrived. After inspecting the casing, and seeing that there were no extractor/ejector marks on it, the police left without an arrest, thank god.

This gun was retired that night, as it was out of warranty, and once bitten and all that. I picked up an M&P .40 a week or so later and have had no issues. Also, the ex NEVER EVER wanted to see a pistol again, and refused to learn how to use one. My refusal to not own one or more was a slight contributing factor in our breakup.

In conclusion, what would you all classify this as, AD or ND?

Very interesting account, Wangmuf. Thanks for sharing that.

I was looking at a Colt instgruction booklet for one my guns a while back and saw the term unintentional discharge. I kinda liked it. I'd use that in your case.

I'd suggest a conceptualization of:

Unintentional Discharge at the top, with ND and AD below it. To place allND under AD, as DrMark does, doesn't make sense to me since I can envision negligence so gross that it could not possibly be considered accidental--both by the law and logic.

eyesopened · Sep 21, 2009

imported post

As I understand it, XD pistols have a lifetime warranty. Unless this is the HS2000 (before Springfield-Armory) purchased the rights to distribute, it'd probably be still under warranty. This is the first I've heard of this happening on an XD. Mine's been trouble free for a number of years now

HankT · Sep 21, 2009

imported post

jegoodin wrote:

Unfortunately, some of the laws and gun unfriendly environments in Virginia can lead to ND or AD. The more you handle the thing the more likely you are to either mishandle it or for a true accident to happen. I would suggest that handling a loaded gun in the cramped environment of a car while trying to keep others from noticing it so they can't scream "brandishing" while you are either re-arming or dis-arming is a very dangerous thing.

I dunno. What if those laws and gun unfriendly environments were not involved in this ND/AD/UD situation?

Comments being madeat the story page indicate that the shooter/shootee wasactually at a stoplight near the gas station. He was, apparently,in the act of driving a car.

If the comments are true, I don't see how any unfriendly laws/environments could even remotely justify the handling of a handgun while driving a car in traffic!

http://www2.insidenova.com/isn/news/local/article/driver_shoots_self_at_sunoco_service_station/43675/

Citizen · Sep 21, 2009

imported post

jegoodin wrote:

Unfortunately, some of the laws and gun unfriendly environments in Virginia can lead to ND or AD. The more you handle the thing the more likely you are to either mishandle it or for a true accident to happen. I would suggest that handling a loaded gun in the cramped environment of a car while trying to keep others from noticing it so they can't scream "brandishing" while you are either re-arming or dis-arming is a very dangerous thing.

You know, you might be onto something, there.

ProShooter · Sep 22, 2009

imported post

Wangmuf wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

An accidental discharge is a failure of the weapon

A negligient discharge is a failure by the shooter.

Click to expand...

This pistol is not supposed to fire from an open battery.

In conclusion, what would you all classify this as, AD or ND?

Sounds like an AD to me. If the gun malfunctioned and fired, its an AD.

ODA 226 · Sep 22, 2009

imported post

The story still sounds fishy to me. Wanna bet the guy was fixin' to rob the gas station?

crazydude6030 · Sep 22, 2009

imported post

Wangmuf wrote:

I present an anecdotal situation:

When my ex-girlfriend and I moved into our first apartment together, I was going thru the process of showing her where I intended to keep my XD9 while at home, and where it was going to be stored. After this, I started to teach her proper gun safety, in case she ever needed it for self defense when I wasn't home. Then this happened: As the weapon was always kept loaded, full 10 in the mag and one in the pipe, I proceeded to clear the weapon. Pointed the muzzle at an exterior wall, dropped the mag and went to clear the chamber, when the firearm discharged, breech partially open. As I was already working the slide, the empty shell casing slammed backwards, hit the front of the strike plate, and fell out of the magazine well onto the floor. The striker indicator was in the "fired" position, for those of you familiar with the XD series, and there was an obvious primer strike, altho it was much shallower than strikes on brass from the range. This pistol is not supposed to fire from an open battery.

I promptly called Alexandria City 911 to report an accidental discharge, since I was sure one of my neighbors would have already made a call, and informed the operator that the front door would be open, with the weapon on the table unloaded when the police arrived. After inspecting the casing, and seeing that there were no extractor/ejector marks on it, the police left without an arrest, thank god.

This gun was retired that night, as it was out of warranty, and once bitten and all that. I picked up an M&P .40 a week or so later and have had no issues. Also, the ex NEVER EVER wanted to see a pistol again, and refused to learn how to use one. My refusal to not own one or more was a slight contributing factor in our breakup.

In conclusion, what would you all classify this as, AD or ND?

Wow, I think this is the first time I have heard of this with an XD. How many round have been through it? Also, do they not have limited life time warranty? You might want to contact SA and see what they say.

nova · Sep 22, 2009

imported post

crazydude6030 wrote:

Wangmuf wrote:

I present an anecdotal situation:

When my ex-girlfriend and I moved into our first apartment together, I was going thru the process of showing her where I intended to keep my XD9 while at home, and where it was going to be stored. After this, I started to teach her proper gun safety, in case she ever needed it for self defense when I wasn't home. Then this happened: As the weapon was always kept loaded, full 10 in the mag and one in the pipe, I proceeded to clear the weapon. Pointed the muzzle at an exterior wall, dropped the mag and went to clear the chamber, when the firearm discharged, breech partially open. As I was already working the slide, the empty shell casing slammed backwards, hit the front of the strike plate, and fell out of the magazine well onto the floor. The striker indicator was in the "fired" position, for those of you familiar with the XD series, and there was an obvious primer strike, altho it was much shallower than strikes on brass from the range. This pistol is not supposed to fire from an open battery.

I promptly called Alexandria City 911 to report an accidental discharge, since I was sure one of my neighbors would have already made a call, and informed the operator that the front door would be open, with the weapon on the table unloaded when the police arrived. After inspecting the casing, and seeing that there were no extractor/ejector marks on it, the police left without an arrest, thank god.

This gun was retired that night, as it was out of warranty, and once bitten and all that. I picked up an M&P .40 a week or so later and have had no issues. Also, the ex NEVER EVER wanted to see a pistol again, and refused to learn how to use one. My refusal to not own one or more was a slight contributing factor in our breakup.

In conclusion, what would you all classify this as, AD or ND?

Click to expand...

Wow, I think this is the first time I have heard of this with an XD. How many round have been through it? Also, do they not have limited life time warranty? You might want to contact SA and see what they say.

If it indeed fired while out of battery then the piece of brass from the fired cartridge should look bulged near the base due to it not being fully supported by the chamber.

But if the striker indicator (if in working condition) was not in the cocked position after racking the slide even 1/4" then there was definitely a mechanical failure.

I've never had a problem with my XD45 and hope I never do, it's a great gun.

DrMark · Sep 22, 2009

imported post

HankT wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

An accidental discharge is a failure of the weapon

A negligient discharge is a failure by the shooter.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I'd suggest a conceptualization of:

Unintentional Discharge at the top, with ND and AD below it. To place allND under AD, as DrMark does, doesn't make sense to me since I can envision negligence so gross that it could not possibly be considered accidental--both by the law and logic.

If it doesn't make sense to you, my young Virginia Forum interloper, might I suggest a course in remedial English?

accidental: occurring unexpectedly or by chance; happening without intent [unintentional] or through carelessness [negligence] and often with unfortunate results

Accidental is synonymous with unintentional, thus all negligient discharge are accidental (or unintentional) discharges. To suggest that a negligient discharge is not an accidental discharge is to suggest that it is intentional; that is incorrect.

The common usage definitions ProShooter presented are useful. They are what I generally use, as they stress that negligence is almost always a factor when a gun fires accidentally. "Accidents happen," as they say, and they are almost always due to negligence. To further suggest, however, that negligient discharges are not accidental, is incorrect.

DrMark · Sep 22, 2009

imported post

ODA 226 wrote:

The story still sounds fishy to me. Wanna bet the guy was fixin' to rob the gas station?

Horrifically unsafe gun-handling practices among those with criminal intent?

Hmmm, I wouldn't bet against you on that...

TexasNative · Sep 22, 2009

imported post

Contrary to how you define the terms "accidental" and "negligent," when combined with the word "discharge," common usage has made them mutually exclusive. Thus, when you say "accidental discharge" to folks familiar with guns, the vast majority consider that to mean a discharge no reasonable person would have expected.

I sympathize with adhering to the precise definition of words, but in my time on this Earth, I've learned through hard experience that fighting against a usage employed by the majority is a fool's game, and is merely tilting at windmills.

In other words, if you think that all negligent discharges are accidental discharges, the majority of folks will merely think you quaint and eccentric and then ignore you on this point, regardless of how logically or semantically correct you may be.

~ Boyd

DrMark · Sep 22, 2009

imported post

TexasNative wrote:

...if you think that all negligent discharges are accidental discharges, the majority of folks will merely think you quaint and eccentric and then ignore you on this point, regardless of how logically or semantically correct you may be.

As an Engineer, I'm used to no one else in the room recognizing that I'm correct!

kennys · Sep 22, 2009

imported post

DrMark wrote:

As an Engineer, I'm used to no one else in the room recognizing that I'm correct!

As being an estimator for a site work contractor, I feel your pain.:dude:

Reverend73 · Sep 22, 2009

imported post

That is a mid '90s Jeep Cherokee not a Bronco or a Blazer :banghead::cuss:

Know your vehicles people.

wylde007 · Sep 22, 2009

imported post

I sympathize with adhering to the precise definition of words, but in my time on this Earth, I've learned through hard experience that fighting against a usage employed by the majority is a fool's game, and is merely tilting at windmills.

And that is the God's honest truth if I've ever heard it.

Supposibly. Irregardless. Could of (substitute for could've).

Teh new genrtn of txting iz gng 2 rune the eng lang.

kennys · Sep 22, 2009

imported post

On a light note, not knowing the full circumstances of the incident. Let this be a lesson, never carry a weapon in your pants without a holster, epically while taking Viagra:lol:

On a more serious note, I wish they would elaborate on it a little better as every experiance good, and bad is a learning experiance.

Accidental discharge in Prince William County.

HankT

State Researcher

eyesopened

Regular Member

HankT

State Researcher

Citizen

Founder's Club Member

ProShooter

Regular Member

ODA 226

Regular Member

crazydude6030

Regular Member

nova

Regular Member

DrMark

Lone Star Veteran

DrMark

Lone Star Veteran

TexasNative

Regular Member

DrMark

Lone Star Veteran

kennys

Regular Member

Reverend73

Founder's Club Member

wylde007

Regular Member

kennys

Regular Member