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Thread: PROGRESSIVE FRAMEWORK ON 2A RIGHTS

  1. #1
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    In doing some research I came across some interesting link trails I followed and ended up finding this framework that the progressives evidently have been using for a while.

    While I realize this is preaching to the choir, I thought that maybe many of you could use this as an editorial piece on the many pro 2A blogs etc out there.

    Frankly I am amazed I found this published on the internet. LOL. Here you go.. full article found at w w w .thirdway. org/data/product/file/21/taking_back_2nd_amendment.pdf
    (not gonna give them a link bump definitely lol)

    Mods: If this is not the right place for this thread, please move it where it may do the most good.
    ================================================== ====

    A Seven Step Primer To Take Back The Second
    Amendment and Win The Gun Vote


    Step 1: Reject the Conventional Wisdom on Guns
    "the leading strategy employed by progressives to
    win gun owner votes – namely avoiding the gun issue entirely – is doomed to fail. Voters
    have already made up their mind where progressives stand on guns, and until
    progressives redefine the issue in a way that appeals to gun owning voters, they will be
    perceived as anti-gun."

    Step 2: Own the Second Amendment
    Progressives have to take back the Second Amendment – ending all equivocation on the meaning of the Second Amendment by inserting strong support for the individual rights interpretation in all gun discussions. They must define the right in a way that makes sense to the vast majority of voters – as a right that comes with responsibilities for individual owners and for society to support tough enforcement and closing existing gun law loopholes. And they must preface all of their policy pronouncements with genuine support for the Second Amendment.

    Consider the strong support among gun owners for the following messages from a
    Democratic candidate:
    “I take a back seat to no one in support of Second Amendment rights, but I also support
    requiring criminal background checks at gun shows and continuing the ban on assault
    weapons.”
    (Supported by 83% of gun owners)
    “Americans have a right to own a gun to protect themselves and their families.”
    (Supported by 93% of gun owners)
    “Our gun rights come with the responsibility to keep them out of the hands of criminals,
    terrorists and children.”
    (Supported by 85% of gun owners)

    Step 3: Redefine the Issue from Gun Control to Gun Safety
    Gun control has become a loaded term that leads voters to believe that the
    candidate supports the most restrictive laws, including a ban on handguns. Voters don’t
    define enforcement of existing gun laws or closing the gun show loophole as gun
    control — neither should candidates.
    “By a margin of 70-20% (77-13% among gun owners), voters prefer a Democratic
    candidate who supports gun safety over a candidate who supports gun control.”


    Step 4: Criticize Conservatives for Failing to Enforce Existing Gun Laws
    Only 578 out of the 136,000 people who lied on the criminal background check form
    that is required to buy a gun were prosecuted. We need to get serious and crack down on people who try to buy guns illegally.” (Supported by 88% of gun owners).

    Step 5: Promote Centrist Gun Policies with Centrist Language
    (sorry but I am posting this section in its entirety here. )
    The problem that progressives have on the gun issue has far less to do with the
    typical policies they espouse than the rhetoric they employ.
    • By a margin of 92-7%, voters support improving the background check system to
    make instant checks faster and more accurate (90-9% among gun owners).
    • By a margin of 90-9%, voters support closing the gun show loophole (85-13%
    among gun owners, and 83-16% among those who have attended gun shows!).
    • By a margin of 77-21%, voters support renewing the assault weapons ban (66-
    32% among gun owners).
    Moreover, for every one of these proposed laws, voters overwhelmingly believe
    that a progressive can support each measure and still be a strong supporter of the
    Second Amendment. When asked on each of these proposals whether a Democrat
    could support it and “still be a strong supporter of the Second Amendment right to own
    a gun,” the number saying yes to each measure is as follows:
    • Improving the background check system (83% all, 89% gun owners)
    • Closing gun show loophole (82% all, 80% gun owners)
    • Renewing assault weapons ban (71% all, 67% gun owners)
    If a candidate or officeholder intends to support gun safety laws like closing the gun show loophole or renewing the assault weapons ban, it is critical to couple that support with support for the Second Amendment and for enforcing the laws on the books.
    Finally, don’t be shy to marry your positions to those of prominent conservatives who gun owners trust with their rights.

    “My position on gun shows and the assault weapons ban is the same as George Bush
    and John McCain.”

    Step 6: Take Your Message Directly to Gun Owners – Don’t Let Your Opponent Define You
    Below are snippets I took out showing what progressive candidates should do to get elected in respect to gun owners and 2A issues.
    - talk to them repeatedly.
    - respect and appeal to local gun values
    -- have the confidence that local gun owners mostly do want to close the gun show loophole and renew the assault weapons ban.
    - Gun owners are not a monolithic voting block – and they will only vote their gun if they believe that the progressive is out to take away their gun rights,
    - talk about personal experiences with firearms and hunting
    - explicitly talking about the gun issue,
    - forming a Sportsmen for Candidate Jones committee – gun owners are a voting block that can be persuaded to vote for progressives.

    “I will bring our local gun values to Washington. That means respecting the right to
    own a gun and making sure our gun laws do not leave loopholes open that help
    criminals, terrorists, or illegal aliens get guns.” (Supported by 86% of gun owners).

    “I am pro-hunter because I believe in preserving the environment to protect fish and
    wildlife. Every day, America loses 365 acres of pristine land to development. We have to
    preserve these lands, or hunting will cease to exist in America.” (Supported by 78% of
    gun owners)

    Step 7: Implement Your Gun Plan and Watch the Gun Votes Roll In
    Gun owners are ready to support progressive candidates that support sensible gun
    safety laws, vigorous enforcement, and Second Amendment rights. That is because a
    plurality of gun owners define themselves as moderate and would be receptive to
    supporting a progressive if that candidate was moderate on the gun issue.

    Gun owners define this moderate position on guns using three yardsticks:
    • Support for the Second Amendment
    • Closing Gun Law Loopholes
    • Vigorously Enforcing the Gun Laws on the Books

    In fact, the Democrat who supports gun rights, closing gun law loopholes, and
    vigorous enforcement of existing laws outperforms any other Democrat against
    the generic Republican among gun owners, non-gun owners, southerners,
    Midwesterners, Farm Staters, Westerners, Northeasterners, independents, liberals,
    moderates, and conservatives.
    ================================================== =====

    Now lets get a few things straight here. These words above are not MY words but a document I found out on the net. I find it interesting that the term Progressive and Democrat are used interchangeably. To me this shows a psychology of how they view themselves. In MY opinion, the above strategy also shows that WE, as responsible gun owners are thought of to be no more than sheep and here is how they think they can fool us into voting, which is the only currency they understand. Getting elected and re-elected is the name of the game here.

    So I ask you.. save this document.. and the next time you hear a politician, either local, state or national using these strategies, call them out on it. Blog it to death ad nauseum.
    If you are in person and the politician starts in with this junk, get specific with your questions and demand an immediate response. If they call out with an " research and get back to you later on that" type comment, reference this strategy and let them know you wont stand for it.

    Just my two cents folks.

    Rebel
    American by birth, Southern by choice.




  2. #2
    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    Took the spaces out of your entry and still couldn't get to the website
    But it looks like you've found a lil diamond as to the thought pattern of the way the progressives are trying to "slicky" their way in. Thanks for the post. And I believe the Saying goes "American by birth, Southern by the grace of God"
    Keep your powder dry!
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Thomas Jefferson

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    KansasMustang wrote:
    Took the spaces out of your entry and still couldn't get to the website
    But it looks like you've found a lil diamond as to the thought pattern of the way the progressives are trying to "slicky" their way in. Thanks for the post. And I believe the Saying goes "American by birth, Southern by the grace of God"
    Keep your powder dry!
    Thank You Sargeant!
    Take the spaces out of the www part as well as before and I think after the org part... a valid url has no spaces anywhere.. hope that helps cause I think everyone should keep a copy of this for future reference.

    As for my byline.. for me it is by choice.. lol.. I transplanted myself from your neighbor show me state. Southerners think Mo is a northern state, Northerners think it is a Southern state.. lol.. which the truth is it all depends on where you came from in the state if Misery. lmao..

    Stay well and vigilent!

    Reb
    American by birth, Southern by choice.


  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Good post!!

    rebel-patriot wrote:

    • By a margin of 90-9%, voters support closing the gun show loophole (85-13%
    among gun owners, and 83-16% among those who have attended gun shows!).
    • By a margin of 77-21%, voters support renewing the assault weapons ban (66-
    32% among gun owners).


    Let's just let them go on believeing that BS!!

    “I am pro-hunter because I believe in preserving the environment to protect fish and
    wildlife. Who doesn't? Every day, America loses 365 acres of pristine land to development. We have to
    preserve these lands, or hunting will cease to exist in America.” (Supported by 78% of
    gun owners)
    "Progressives" have done everything in their power to stop hunting. Some of them even want to sue people on behalf of animals!!

    Any critical thinking person can see that "progressives" stifle development and progress. They promote marxist philosophies, which are old, failed (at best) and in most cases have caused the rise of despotic regimes, genocide,or prolonged the suffering of the people subjected to it. Show me one single country that adopted "progressive" philosophies, STUCK WITH THEM and becomean industrial juggernaut. (China has not, they just kept the despotism)

    What "conservatives" and libertarians need to do is simply remind people what "progressive" policies did in the 1920's -40's.Despots and killerslike Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Pol Pot, Mao Se Tung, Ho Chi Mihn, and Ted Kennedyhave used "progressive" philosophies toindoctrinate people into the belief that GOVERNMENT, (with them in charge of course) cangive you everything you need. When the laws of nature and common sense should have told people they need to provide for themselves, and interference from GOVERNMENT thwarts REAL PROGRESS in that endeavor.

    There is NOTHING "progressive" about liberalism, it's been tried, has failed countless times, and caused the worst sorts of misery and poverty in history.

    If "progressivism" worked, the Soviet Union would still exist and have expanded it's territory to the delight of eastern europe, with western europe begging the USSR to "liberate" themfrom"US Imperialism" (Sound familiar?)

    If "progressivism" worked, there would be no need for an "assault weapons ban", or a scheme to convince gun owners that "progressives" support the rights that prevent them from bringing their plans to fruition.

    If "progressivism" worked, Zimbabwe would not be stuck with worthless currency.

    If "progressivism" worked, we would be using our own oil.

    If "progressivism" worked, the industries that unionized would not be fleeing too other countries, getting bail outs, or shutting down.

    If "progressivism" worked, people would be floating SOUTH TO CUBA, not the other way around.

    If "progressivism" worked, US citizens would be going to Canada for "free" treatment, instead of Canadians coming to the US and having to pay.

    Euroweenies are finally rejecting it, while the US has been tricked into believeing a man who doesn't even take care of hisOWNFAMILYin Kenya, cares about them, and will somehow make ideas that have always failed work here. Instead of returning to the ideas that put us on top in the first place. "Progressivism" is based on lies, so don't be fooled when these marxists tell you they respect your rights. They also promised the Russians "Peace, Bread, Land." We know what happened instead.

    That's my political rant for the day, but don't be fooled my friends, "progressives" are anything but progressive, and they damn sure don't respect us at all, let alone the rights we have. These are obstacles to leftists, or they wouldn't disarm every popualtion they've subjugated.




    If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training. You will become a minister of death, PRAYING FOR WAR...

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    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    Um, it's Sergeant Major, but who's gonna quibbel? LOL oh hell I will. I was born in the Land of Lincoln, sorry to say. Had no choice about it. But, I'm a westerner now. Spent most my time in the mountains of Colorado and now in Kansas. At any rate the weapon and caliber you choose is whatever is right for you.
    I just can't put much faith in a caliber that'll zing straight through a body and not leave a gaping exit wound,,nor knock em on their keester. Just me sayin it tho'
    Keep your powder dry!
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

    Drives me nuts when the second amendment is wrongly referenced with "hunting".

    Fact: THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS NOT ABOUT HUNTING!

    2Ais about keeping the "security of a free state" and allowing us as free people to maintain the needed requirements to instantly form a militia in defense of State and Country and in defense of our sovereignty and freedom, from enemies both foreign and domestic. The whole "Hunter" thing is a smoke and mirror trick.

    TY for the good article, and the good info. It is some healthy food for thought no matter what source it came from.

    Kindly,

    Bat
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    The Enclave is looking for patriotic motorcycle riders in Washington State who support liberty and freedom for all. ~ Check us out!
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    Batousaii wrote:
    "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

    Drives me nuts when the second amendment is wrongly referenced with "hunting".

    Fact: THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS NOT ABOUT HUNTING!

    2Ais about keeping the "security of a free state" and allowing us as free people to maintain the needed requirements to instantly form a militia in defense of State and Country and in defense of our sovereignty and freedom, from enemies both foreign and domestic. The whole "Hunter" thing is a smoke and mirror trick.

    TY for the good article, and the good info. It is some healthy food for thought no matter what source it came from.

    Kindly,

    Bat
    Hello Bat.. quite true the Second Amendment is not about hunting. But in the context of the article that I found, hunting is used to build a perceived "common bond" between the aspiring politician and the gun owning community to reassure them that once in office the aspiring politician wont legislate their gun rights away when that is exactly what they wish to do. THEY are the ones using hunting as an avenue to diminish or abolish YOUR and MY second amendment rights.

    (just setting the record straight and pushing the thread back on topic)

    Reb
    American by birth, Southern by choice.

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    In evaluating this it is important to consider the author. The web site claims:

    "Third Way is the leading think tank of the moderate wing of the progressive movement."

    That would come as a surprise to at least six or seven other organizations who have been in the business for longer, have a stronger membership, better funding and better connections.

    This is a young,ambitious organizationthat ASPIRES to speak for and to centrist democrats, but has not made it.

    Part of the reason why theyaren't likely to attract a lot of supportin future-- I surmize -- is cutting loose pieces like the one you quote from above.

    They have as a"highlight"of their "Culture Program": "drafting a bill to shore up the gun purchase background check system that was signed into law after the murders at Virginia Tech." They obviously don't know what they are talking about on guns.

    The piece nevertheless attempts to reflect a "Centrist" approach to gun rhetoricthat has been adopted by someon the left in the democratic party. It is worthy to recognize some of the things this signifies:

    1. The left has lost the war on guns.They have givenup the core of their opposition which must necessarily REJECT the individual rignt of the People to Keep and Bear Arms.

    2. The only things left on this organization'sgun control agenda is closing the gun show loophole and the assault weapons ban. The gun show loophole idea is weak toast: an inconvienence that would affect a small percentage of private gun sales. The assault weapons ban is a dead letter: dead because there are not enough anti dems to pass it, and because -- were it passed -- itwould be foundunconstitutional under the Heller decision.

    In short, to the extent that this document reflects the "progressives" plan, we should begetting ready to celebrate victoryin the war on guns.

    I don't think it is. Progressives are a diverse bunch.For example, you have "progressives" like Jim Webb who voted"yes" on Thune-Vitter, and is a solid 2A supporter. Youalso have"progressives" like the editors of the Washington Post, who have never seen a gun control bill they didn't like.

    Don't get me wrong: I think any politician who talks this way should be challenged on things like the assault weapons ban. But rhetoric like this means that the pro-2A camp has defined the issue, and that suggests that we are close to winning the debate.

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    The Donkey wrote:
    Progressives are a diverse bunch.For example, you have "progressives" like Jim Webb who voted"yes" on Thune-Vitter, and is a solid 2A supporter. Youalso have"progressives" like the editors of the Washington Post, who have never seen a gun control bill they didn't like.

    Don't get me wrong: I think any politician who talks this way should be challenged on things like the assault weapons ban. But rhetoric like this means that the pro-2A camp has defined the issue, and that suggests that we are close to winning the debate.
    Well, having found this just this morning and already having given a take on it, I then went to a much more current website. As you will note this piece quoted above was written back in 2006.

    Read it, keep in mind my note above then jump on over to the mayors against illeg guns.. you can figure it out and I am not going to give their name a full mention here to give them any kind of internet bump.... anyway.. take that site and read through some of their plans.. most notably the responsible firearms retailer section... I was appalled... then you can jump over to the site where they had their annual convention in Florida last month (Florida League of Cities website) and take note of the day one workshop they had.. after having read this piece first I can see the mayors have taken the issue of gun control straight from the above referenced handbook and are actively working every piece of local, state, and federal legislation they can nationwide. These groups are well networked and are working hard. If you have a real pro gun activist network in your state, you are better off than I am here in the sunshine state.
    You can go down to the Florida section and read the threads there as well showing parts of what I found there.
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum17/31733.html

    I think we have come a long long way but feel there is further to go. This is a long way from a dead issue and I fear shall require us to be ever vigilent.

    Rebel
    American by birth, Southern by choice


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    Their statements reflect a divide-and-conquer strategy (e.g., target "assault weapons," frame questions as "right to hunt" or "right to self defense"). Any incremental step they achieve that may seem reasonable to some now is just another step to marginalization of gun ownership that will ultimately lead to more and more erosion of the right.

    Even if you personally believe that semi-auto AK-47 clones are evil, it is only a small step until the focus shifts to bolt action "sniper rifles" as the next evil item. Don't allow divide-and-conquer to succeed.

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    VA Lawyer wrote:
    Their statements reflect a divide-and-conquer strategy (e.g., target "assault weapons," frame questions as "right to hunt" or "right to self defense"). Any incremental step they achieve that may seem reasonable to some now is just another step to marginalization of gun ownership that will ultimately lead to more and more erosion of the right.

    Even if you personally believe that semi-auto AK-47 clones are evil, it is only a small step until the focus shifts to bolt action "sniper rifles" as the next evil item. Don't allow divide-and-conquer to succeed.
    :celebrate:celebrateHere Here! Eloquently stated and to the point! I agree with you completely in your assessment.

    Rebel
    American by birth, Southern by choice.

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    VA Lawyer wrote:
    Their statements reflect a divide-and-conquer strategy (e.g., target "assault weapons," frame questions as "right to hunt" or "right to self defense"). Any incremental step they achieve that may seem reasonable to some now is just another step to marginalization of gun ownership that will ultimately lead to more and more erosion of the right.

    Even if you personally believe that semi-auto AK-47 clones are evil, it is only a small step until the focus shifts to bolt action "sniper rifles" as the next evil item. Don't allow divide-and-conquer to succeed.
    +9

    this is the foundation of partisanism, as well. Two parties, neither of which is even close to sane, guarantee division and failure.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    I like how the founders would see it...
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Anyone remember the Hyundai Commercials from a few years back? "DUH!"

    Would be nice to have a pro A2 advertising campaign like that...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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