Daath 474
Regular Member
imported post
I'm new here. I CC in Central Washington.
I'm new here. I CC in Central Washington.
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I'm New...
- Thread starter Daath 474
- Start date
Manu
Regular Member
imported post
Welcome to Forum, great place to learn about gun laws related to CC/mostly OC
Welcome to Forum, great place to learn about gun laws related to CC/mostly OC
Daath 474
Regular Member
imported post
Exactly. I read through some of the other posts and I was impressed by the amount of information compiled. Also, it is a great way to stay up to date and discuss local laws.
Exactly. I read through some of the other posts and I was impressed by the amount of information compiled. Also, it is a great way to stay up to date and discuss local laws.
sirpuma
Regular Member
imported post
Welcome to our little group.
Welcome to our little group.
Batousaii
Regular Member
imported post
Welcome Aboard, Glad you found us
Welcome Aboard, Glad you found us
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
imported post
Welcome aboard, now we just need to turn you into an open carrier.
Welcome aboard, now we just need to turn you into an open carrier.
Daath 474
Regular Member
imported post
Well, I'm here to learn. I've always felt that concealed carry was a great choice because of the safety. When you have your pistol concealed, there is less of a chance that you may be shot first in the event of a crisis. You would have more opportunity to protect yourself and those around you. A hidden gun is less likely to be grabbed by a thief, criminal or anyone that catches you by surprise with that intent.
Also; when you carry concealed you don't face a lot of the conflict that I see posted on the threads on this board between store owners, employees and local police. Not that they are in the right, far from it. I like that you all exercise your rights and I believe everyone is entitled to do what makes them feel comfortable and safe.
Of course I'm here to hear what you all have to say about open carrying. What points do you have for it? (besides the obvious RIGHT to do so)
Well, I'm here to learn. I've always felt that concealed carry was a great choice because of the safety. When you have your pistol concealed, there is less of a chance that you may be shot first in the event of a crisis. You would have more opportunity to protect yourself and those around you. A hidden gun is less likely to be grabbed by a thief, criminal or anyone that catches you by surprise with that intent.
Also; when you carry concealed you don't face a lot of the conflict that I see posted on the threads on this board between store owners, employees and local police. Not that they are in the right, far from it. I like that you all exercise your rights and I believe everyone is entitled to do what makes them feel comfortable and safe.
Of course I'm here to hear what you all have to say about open carrying. What points do you have for it? (besides the obvious RIGHT to do so)
Manu
Regular Member
imported post
OC is convenient, and also help to deter crime here is a perfect example :
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=22509&forum_id=55&highlight=us+bank
OC is convenient, and also help to deter crime here is a perfect example :
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=22509&forum_id=55&highlight=us+bank
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
imported post
Daath 474 wrote:
I also feel when seconds count, and the adrenaline kicks in I personally don't want to fumble through my clothes when something happens. Hands on the grip and out.
I also carry a serpa type holster folks can't just grab the gun.
The conflict is actually far and few between, but if we don't do it now it will just get harder and harder for all who follow us. So I feel a little trouble here in there in the fight for our rights is worth it, think of the Civil rights activist, it would have saved Rosa Parks a lot of trouble if she just sat where she was expected to, but her actions and the actions of many others made life so much better for millions of folks in this country.
Glad to have you aboard, hope to see you at a meet and you are always welcome open carrying or not, it is fun to be able to meet and hang out with like minded gun folks.
P.S. Personally feel that because I can is the most important reason.
Daath 474 wrote:
I am glad you carry and I am for carrying however makes you feel comfortable, but the studies and examples don't make it more "tactical" no matter what folks like SAF say, it actually is a deterrent, I witnessed this at a Starbucks when I was carrying, so had others read Manu's post. John Stossel did a good report , and so did Penn and Teller, criminals don't like armed people, they like sheep. Does the coyote attack the buck with the horns, or the one without?
I also feel when seconds count, and the adrenaline kicks in I personally don't want to fumble through my clothes when something happens. Hands on the grip and out.
I also carry a serpa type holster folks can't just grab the gun.
The conflict is actually far and few between, but if we don't do it now it will just get harder and harder for all who follow us. So I feel a little trouble here in there in the fight for our rights is worth it, think of the Civil rights activist, it would have saved Rosa Parks a lot of trouble if she just sat where she was expected to, but her actions and the actions of many others made life so much better for millions of folks in this country.
Glad to have you aboard, hope to see you at a meet and you are always welcome open carrying or not, it is fun to be able to meet and hang out with like minded gun folks.
P.S. Personally feel that because I can is the most important reason.
Daath 474
Regular Member
imported post
One of my main concerns with OC is my local police force. I live in a small town (Wenatchee) where they don't seem to have anything better to do than harass folks. Since I live in a small town and I only travel by train, I no longer own a car (cuts down on gas, insurance, etc. costs) and I walk everywhere that I go. A lot of times I walk late at night, which is one of the big reasons as to why I carry. I've had numerous night jobs or just times when I want to go for a walk. It has seemed like every time I have ever been out, a cop has pulled over to question me for just walking. I always respond with my name, provide ID and tell them that I am just walking. Usually this will get them to leave me alone, sometimes not. I've also had quite a few encounters with nasty officers who had nothing better to do than harass me. They'll ask anything from "where are you going/where did you come from?" to "can I search you?" "are you on or buying drugs?" etc. It's really quite ridiculous. I have a completely clean record and I have never done anything to warrant such attention. I've even had an encounter with a sheriff that insisted I show him my backpack after I declined, citing my rights under the fourth amendment. I pretty much had to ask if I was being detained or not and if I was free to go. I was free to go because I did nothing wrong, but that sheriff and about four other police officers followed me for over five or six blocks that night!
This all being without open carrying.
So my concern is really in this: I think that a lot of the time I am being targeted and picked on because of my age and appearance. I'm in my mid twenties, short hair with tattoos and piercings. I don't wear anything ridiculous or obscene, just a simple black t-shirt and jeans most of the time. I do think that the tattoos and piercings are what causes some of the harassment. So I'm concerned that with my appearance and the negative reactions I get from law enforcement just based on that... I might have a little more to fear when open carrying my pistol. I know they can claim that a person was wearing it in an "intimidating" fashion or gave off an appearance of danger or something to that degree. I'm a generally nice and easygoing guy, but as I said, just because of my interests in tattoos and piercings I get the negative stereotype. Though they really have nothing to worry about from someone with NO criminal interest whatsoever, a perfectly clean record and a CPL.
I'm wondering what kind of experiences any other Washington citizens have had with similar things and if any of you have suggestions that would help if I ever felt like open carrying.
One of my main concerns with OC is my local police force. I live in a small town (Wenatchee) where they don't seem to have anything better to do than harass folks. Since I live in a small town and I only travel by train, I no longer own a car (cuts down on gas, insurance, etc. costs) and I walk everywhere that I go. A lot of times I walk late at night, which is one of the big reasons as to why I carry. I've had numerous night jobs or just times when I want to go for a walk. It has seemed like every time I have ever been out, a cop has pulled over to question me for just walking. I always respond with my name, provide ID and tell them that I am just walking. Usually this will get them to leave me alone, sometimes not. I've also had quite a few encounters with nasty officers who had nothing better to do than harass me. They'll ask anything from "where are you going/where did you come from?" to "can I search you?" "are you on or buying drugs?" etc. It's really quite ridiculous. I have a completely clean record and I have never done anything to warrant such attention. I've even had an encounter with a sheriff that insisted I show him my backpack after I declined, citing my rights under the fourth amendment. I pretty much had to ask if I was being detained or not and if I was free to go. I was free to go because I did nothing wrong, but that sheriff and about four other police officers followed me for over five or six blocks that night!
This all being without open carrying.
So my concern is really in this: I think that a lot of the time I am being targeted and picked on because of my age and appearance. I'm in my mid twenties, short hair with tattoos and piercings. I don't wear anything ridiculous or obscene, just a simple black t-shirt and jeans most of the time. I do think that the tattoos and piercings are what causes some of the harassment. So I'm concerned that with my appearance and the negative reactions I get from law enforcement just based on that... I might have a little more to fear when open carrying my pistol. I know they can claim that a person was wearing it in an "intimidating" fashion or gave off an appearance of danger or something to that degree. I'm a generally nice and easygoing guy, but as I said, just because of my interests in tattoos and piercings I get the negative stereotype. Though they really have nothing to worry about from someone with NO criminal interest whatsoever, a perfectly clean record and a CPL.
I'm wondering what kind of experiences any other Washington citizens have had with similar things and if any of you have suggestions that would help if I ever felt like open carrying.
swatspyder
Regular Member
imported post
Daath 474 wrote:
Daath 474 wrote:
OC, and if you get into trouble, just retain a lawyer and bring a lawsuit against the department for infringing on your rights. Someone here could also send an email to the Chief of the department where you are at with the bulletins and firearms laws.
Daath 474
Regular Member
imported post
Is there a specific Washington state law that protects my right to open carry if I want to? Where would I find that? That would be useful to remember and be able to present.
Is there a specific Washington state law that protects my right to open carry if I want to? Where would I find that? That would be useful to remember and be able to present.
1245A Defender
Regular Member
imported post
Daath 474 wrote:
article 1; section 24 of the washington state constitution: the right to bear arms
the 2nd ammendment to the U.S. constitution: the right to keep and bear arms
RCW 9.41.270 is as close as youre gonna get to permission to OC.
if it isnt illegal, then it is legal.
Daath 474 wrote:
article 1; section 24 of the washington state constitution: the right to bear arms
the 2nd ammendment to the U.S. constitution: the right to keep and bear arms
RCW 9.41.270 is as close as youre gonna get to permission to OC.
if it isnt illegal, then it is legal.
David.Car
Regular Member
imported post
Welcome!
Great to see all the new members that seem to be popping up lately. Just last night I was stopped by a gentleman in a Safeway parking lot that admitted to me he concealed carried. He had no idea open carry was even an option. Gave him a card with this site on it so hopefully he will get all the information he needs and might pop up as a member himself.
Welcome!
Great to see all the new members that seem to be popping up lately. Just last night I was stopped by a gentleman in a Safeway parking lot that admitted to me he concealed carried. He had no idea open carry was even an option. Gave him a card with this site on it so hopefully he will get all the information he needs and might pop up as a member himself.
Daath 474
Regular Member
imported post
2, 4, 5 A defender wrote:
(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.
(2) Any person violating the provisions of subsection (1) above shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor. If any person is convicted of a violation of subsection (1) of this section, the person shall lose his or her concealed pistol license, if any. The court shall send notice of the revocation to the department of licensing, and the city, town, or county which issued the license.
(3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to or affect the following:
(a) Any act committed by a person while in his or her place of abode or fixed place of business;
(b) Any person who by virtue of his or her office or public employment is vested by law with a duty to preserve public safety, maintain public order, or to make arrests for offenses, while in the performance of such duty;
(c) Any person acting for the purpose of protecting himself or herself against the use of presently threatened unlawful force by another, or for the purpose of protecting another against the use of such unlawful force by a third person;
(d) Any person making or assisting in making a lawful arrest for the commission of a felony; or
(e) Any person engaged in military activities sponsored by the federal or state governments.
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The thing that concerns me is that any officer may be able to say that just by simply carrying it, it appears that I am trying to intimidate or warrant alarm by the public. It's basically his word against mine and of course he's going to win in a court of law. That scares the hell out of me and I don't want to lose my right to carry!
2, 4, 5 A defender wrote:
I'm aware of the Washington State Consitution and the 2nd Amendment, but I hadn't had a chance to thoroughly read over RCW 9.41.270 until today. Thank you for posting it! This is what it reads:
(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.
(2) Any person violating the provisions of subsection (1) above shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor. If any person is convicted of a violation of subsection (1) of this section, the person shall lose his or her concealed pistol license, if any. The court shall send notice of the revocation to the department of licensing, and the city, town, or county which issued the license.
(3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to or affect the following:
(a) Any act committed by a person while in his or her place of abode or fixed place of business;
(b) Any person who by virtue of his or her office or public employment is vested by law with a duty to preserve public safety, maintain public order, or to make arrests for offenses, while in the performance of such duty;
(c) Any person acting for the purpose of protecting himself or herself against the use of presently threatened unlawful force by another, or for the purpose of protecting another against the use of such unlawful force by a third person;
(d) Any person making or assisting in making a lawful arrest for the commission of a felony; or
(e) Any person engaged in military activities sponsored by the federal or state governments.
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The thing that concerns me is that any officer may be able to say that just by simply carrying it, it appears that I am trying to intimidate or warrant alarm by the public. It's basically his word against mine and of course he's going to win in a court of law. That scares the hell out of me and I don't want to lose my right to carry!
David.Car
Regular Member
imported post
Daath 474 wrote:
Should read the unpublished case of WA State V Casad, and some of the other court cases posted all around this site.
The vast majority go on to explain that a firearm in a holster does not warrant a threat to the safety of the public or an officer. It also does not constitute RAS for a LEO to initiate an investigatory detention.
Daath 474 wrote:
Should read the unpublished case of WA State V Casad, and some of the other court cases posted all around this site.
The vast majority go on to explain that a firearm in a holster does not warrant a threat to the safety of the public or an officer. It also does not constitute RAS for a LEO to initiate an investigatory detention.
Daath 474
Regular Member
imported post
What does RAS stand for? I'm thinking it means something like reasonable search, but I could be wrong and I'd like the correct terminology.
What does RAS stand for? I'm thinking it means something like reasonable search, but I could be wrong and I'd like the correct terminology.
David.Car
Regular Member
imported post
Daath 474 wrote:
Daath 474 wrote:
Reasonable Articulate Suspicion : Legal standard that a person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity based on specific and articulable facts and inferences.
Daath 474
Regular Member
imported post
Thank you.
Thank you.
Daath 474
Regular Member
imported post
I just want to know these things in case I ever do decide to open carry. I would like to know my specific laws regarding it and what things I should cite in a court of law if I find myself in one. I want to know what kind of legal action I can use to defend myself if I'm falsely arrested for doing something that is perfectly within my rights. You guys are great with providing solid facts and information. Keep up the good work!
I just want to know these things in case I ever do decide to open carry. I would like to know my specific laws regarding it and what things I should cite in a court of law if I find myself in one. I want to know what kind of legal action I can use to defend myself if I'm falsely arrested for doing something that is perfectly within my rights. You guys are great with providing solid facts and information. Keep up the good work!