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Thread: Burger King

  1. #1
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    At about 9:00 pm today me and my wife are heading back from my in laws house so we decide to stop at a Burger king to grab a quick bite. This is the one on central ave right after the entrance to the 167 freeway. It was kind of chilly so i decide to put a coat on (I have a cpl) when we get out of the car. We do the usual order and sit at a booth.

    When we receive our order I notice that we are missing an item so I inform the cashier she explains how she made a mistake and didn't charge me for that item so I have to pay for it. That was fine with me so I go to pay for it and by this time the manager of the restaurant was standing behind the cashier as she stares at me and asks in a loud voice "Is that a gun??!!" I respond "Yes ma'm it is" she replies "That is ILLEGAL! It is ILLEGAL to have guns in a building in Washington!" I say "No it isn't its perfectly legal and besides I have a concealed pistol permit so I can carry under my coat" she then says "That’s not a very smart thing to do why the hell would you bring a gun to a family restaurant!!".

    At this point I am very irritated since not only am I getting crappy service but I am also being yelled at by this lady in front of everyone so I tell her "Miss it is perfectly legal for me to carry my gun here and I would appreciate it if you stopped harassing me about it" she then yells "ILL SHOW YOU HARASSMENT YOU IDIOT, IM GONNA CALL ABOUT THIS" I tell her to go ahead and I sit down to start eating my meal.

    From my seat I can see her talking on the phone to someone and she doesn't look happy, she calls me over and says "Ok you were right you are allowed to have your gun here" and turns to walk away I amvery irritatedat this pointsince she didn't even bother to apologize so I tell her "Excuse me may I have the number to the owner of the restaurant I’d like to speak to him" she tries to tell me its the 1800 number behind my receipt so I explain to her that Burger King is a franchise and therefore has an actual owner and that I would like his number she says shell go get it for me.

    When she goes back one of the customers tells me that she is a very rude person and that he hopes she gets in trouble. I wait for a good ten minutes for her to return with the number she gives it to me and I go sit down I begin to call the number when I look up and one of Kent’s finest is standing right in front of me Officer E Tung. He asked me what’s going on I explain the situation to him and he says "Well people tend to freak out when they see a gun especially when they don’t understand the law even though I know you are within you legal rights to carry your gun she doesn't know that and beside why do you carry you gun so openly? you know this isn't like Texas or anything people just aren’t used to seeing guns"I chuckle a little and tell him this sure isn't likeTexas since I am from there and I know open carry is illegal in Texas

    LOL he looked surprised to hear that.He then asks me for my cpl I hand it over to him he looks at it for a while and asks me for ID I ask him "Am I being detained officer??" he widens his eyes and says "no but I would like to see it" I decide to let him see it since all I wanna do at this point is finish my meal. As officer E.Tung is checking my ID two other officers arrive officer Mckimillin and Officer Miller. They stand off to the side and ask officer Tung "What kind of gun does he have?" Tung says "I don’t know" Mckimillin asks me "can Isee it"I say "Its an s&w mp 40" and then lift my coat so it is visible Mckimillin reaches for my gun I know better than to resist since that will get me Tazed or worse. I just say "Careful there’s one in the chamber" followed by "That’s illegal what you just did is unlawful seizure of my gun I did not consent to you taking it why did you take it?"

    Nobody answers me Mckimillin reads the serial number on my gun to Tung and he radios it in he then places it back in my holster I ask again "Why did you take my gun I did not consent to that" Miller says "Officer safety were the cops andwe can do anything for officer safety" I then say "If it was for officer safety then why did you put it right back in my holster after you got my serial number?" Mckimillin says "Kid about 60% percent of the guns out there are stolen" I tell him "ok sure but that doesn’t explain why you took my gun without consent" he then says” what are you talking about you said I could take it remember you lifted you coat and said here take a look" I said "no I didn't say anything you just reached for my gun because you wanted to get my serial number. It really is my gun you know"

    He crosses his arms and says "Well see" so me and my wife wait around and finally the dispatchers give them an all clear on the gun. Tung comes up to me and hands me my cpl. I inform him that I will be issuing a complaint to kent PD for unlawful search and seizure he just stares at me Mkillimin overhears me and says "Whatever go for it my Sergeant is on duty" I go to sit down and finish my meal but Tung stops me and says "The manager told me to tell you to leave" I was beyond angry now. I swallowed my pride grabbed my stuff and me and my wife headed out the door Iknew I didn't have any other choice. The officers then wait for me to leave and even wave to me on the way out "Have a nice night" they say. Its a little too late for that I think to myself.




    Well thats it sorry if it was tooo long.



    EDIT TO FIX PARAGRAPHS AND GRAMMAR














  2. #2
    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    Sorry that happened, sounds pretty crappy. One thing to remember, if they did not have RAS to believe that your arm was being used in a crime, and running your numbers constitutes an "investigation" they were effectively trampling your constitutional rights. The police are not supposed to run numbers unless your actively arrested (longer standing members please correct me if i am wrong). So, you might want to focus on that as part of your complaint. Sounds like you have a very legitimate complaint to file, to bothBooger King and the police station.

    Also, from my perspective, filing complaints against police to the police is an act of futility, maybe some other, more knowledgeable members will have some advice on how to effectively hold the police to their accountability as officers of the "law".


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  3. #3
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    Am I being detained?

    No.

    Thank you officer, you may go.

    No need to interact further once you know you are not being detained.

  4. #4
    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    They were in possession of your property, you were not free to leave as you were not in possession of your property. You were detained.
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

  5. #5
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Too bad you had a negative encounter, hope you get a hold of the Burger King owner and he is on your side. She didn't yell about the LEO's having guns inside the building.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  6. #6
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    James06 wrote:
    At about 9:00 pm today ....and says "he manager told me to tell you to leave" I was beyond angry now. I swallowed my pride grabbed my stuff and me and my wife headed out the door I knew I didn't have any other choice. The officers then wait for me to leave and even wave to me on the way out "Have a nice night" they say. Its a little too late for that I think to myself.
    Wow. Those boys in blue sure got everything wrong.They treated you quite badly, J06.

    I hope your complaint gets in their files. I don't see how it could not. And I hope you complain to the big guy, too:



  7. #7
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    wow thats a lame dinner :X. I hope you get some free meals at BK atleast

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    wow thats a lame dinner :X. I hope you get some free meals at BK atleast

  9. #9
    Regular Member Jamfish's Avatar
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    That just makes me sick to my stomach.

    Between this and your car being stolen, James, I'll be praying for some peace & positive resolutions for you and family.
    Support these forums, please donate if you are able to OpenCarry.Org!

  10. #10
    Regular Member Machoduck's Avatar
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    I'm sure you'll find this interesting:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum39/31252.html

    The similarities are remarkable.

    Oh never mind, it's what Navy Lt linked to.

    MD

  11. #11
    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    deanf wrote:
    Am I being detained?

    No.

    Thank you officer, you may go.

    No need to interact further once you know you are not being detained.
    I couldn't have said it better myself.

  12. #12
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    BK sucks anyway

  13. #13
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    That sucks james, You should file a complaint at all levels.

  14. #14
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    Mainsail wrote:
    deanf wrote:
    Am I being detained?

    No.

    Thank you officer, you may go.

    No need to interact further once you know you are not being detained.
    I couldn't have said it better myself.
    I thought it was very weird that the one LEO put the gun back in the OP's holster! I've never heard of that. It's dangerous!

    Of course, the proposed HankT's Firearm ID (HFID) system would have dealt with this problem quite safely,efficiently and effectively. See this thread for the details of this amazing timesaver and hassle saver of a system that allows LEOs to read non-personal gun identification data (manufacturer, model, serial number).

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...highlight=rfid

  15. #15
    Regular Member killchain's Avatar
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    Bah. He shouldn't have touched your weapon nor should he have run the serial number. You should file a complaint.
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

  16. #16
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    NavyLT wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    I thought it was very weird that the one LEO put the gun back in the OP's holster! I've never heard of that. It's dangerous!

    Of course, the proposed HankT's Firearm ID (HFID) system would have dealt with this problem quite safely,efficiently and effectively. See this thread for the details of this amazing timesaver and hassle saver of a system that allows LEOs to read non-personal gun identification data (manufacturer, model, serial number).

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...highlight=rfid
    Great idea Hank T! That way the cops can violate all of our rights and NEVER have to let us know that they are violating them! Fantastic idea! That would certainly cut down on the court cases against the cops that we have been winning lately! I would expect nothing less from you!
    Huh?

    How would the cops "violate all of our rights and NEVER have to let us know that they are violating them!," NLT?HFIDwouldn't do that. Perhaps you misread the details? You did actually read them, didn't you?

    How, NLT?



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    Depends where you attach it... Perhaps they will take the whole holster... Or your pants...

  18. #18
    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    This sounds like par for the course in Kent, I know...

    Although I've never had my gun taken from me, it has been threatened, a little over a year ago.

    On theother hand, I got stopped in Fred Meyer ( Kent east hill at 240th )a couple weeks ago. 2 officers "surrounded" me while I was looking at magazines, one on either end of the magazine aisle. As soon as I said, "am I being detained?" their eyes got real wide open, like they couldn't believe I would know to ask that. One of the first things the first officer said was that he knew that it was legal for me to OC. What gets me, is that even though they know it's legal, they still want to talk and try to convince me that I shouldn't carry openly. I'm sorry, is it the police's job to enforce the law, or to hand out personal opinions?

    After a couple more minutes chatting, they both left and I went about my business, grocery shopping with my wife and daughter. I just hope whoever called them on me saw that I didn't get arrested and I was able to continue with my shopping.


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  19. #19
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    HankT wrote:
    NavyLT wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    I thought it was very weird that the one LEO put the gun back in the OP's holster! I've never heard of that. It's dangerous!

    Of course, the proposed HankT's Firearm ID (HFID) system would have dealt with this problem quite safely,efficiently and effectively. See this thread for the details of this amazing timesaver and hassle saver of a system that allows LEOs to read non-personal gun identification data (manufacturer, model, serial number).

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...highlight=rfid
    Great idea Hank T! That way the cops can violate all of our rights and NEVER have to let us know that they are violating them! Fantastic idea! That would certainly cut down on the court cases against the cops that we have been winning lately! I would expect nothing less from you!
    Huh?

    How would the cops "violate all of our rights and NEVER have to let us know that they are violating them!," NLT?HFIDwouldn't do that. Perhaps you misread the details? You did actually read them, didn't you?

    How, NLT?

    Assuming you're as dense as your online persona, I'll type slowly so you can absorb it.

    We have the right to be safe from unreasonable search and seizure. This right has been defined to mean search without consent when there is no probable cause a crime has occurred. RFID allows search and seizure of a person's information without their consent, and without any suspicion of wrongdoing. Moreover, mandatory RFID provides a means by which to search for those concealed carrying, effectively allowing search of all parties within the room sans consent.

    There are other implications as well - RFID skimming to "clone" guns could become a way for criminals to avoid traces, or to frame innocent victims.

    How, in any way (apart from the aforementioned density), can you not see that allowing instant search of identification associated with a person is an inherent violation of the right against unreasonable search and seizure? Next you know we will all need implanted RFID to make sure that sex offenders aren't too close to schools, or drunk drivers aren't allowed to purchase alcohol, or any of a thousand other offenses.

    In short: HFID is as stupid an idea as you are dense an individual. Your concern trolling and repeated advocacy for "HankT's so and so" ideas stands contrary to reason, rights, and even the law.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran Right Wing Wacko's Avatar
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    Two comments...

    USE PARAGRAPHS! It was painfull to read your descriptions of the events.

    The comment to make when the officer writes down the serial number is to mention to him that since he had NO REASONABLE SUSPECIAN that a crime had taken place, should the serial number search had come back as stolen or worse... the evidence would have been thrown out in court.

  21. #21
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Tawnos wrote:
    Assuming you're as dense as your online persona, I'll type slowly so you can absorb it.

    We have the right to be safe from unreasonable search and seizure. This right has been defined to mean search without consent when there is no probable cause a crime has occurred. RFID allows search and seizure of a person's information without their consent, and without any suspicion of wrongdoing. Moreover, mandatory RFID provides a means by which to search for those concealed carrying, effectively allowing search of all parties within the room sans consent.

    There are other implications as well - RFID skimming to "clone" guns could become a way for criminals to avoid traces, or to frame innocent victims.

    How, in any way (apart from the aforementioned density), can you not see that allowing instant search of identification associated with a person is an inherent violation of the right against unreasonable search and seizure? Next you know we will all need implanted RFID to make sure that sex offenders aren't too close to schools, or drunk drivers aren't allowed to purchase alcohol, or any of a thousand other offenses.

    In short: HFID is as stupid an idea as you are dense an individual. Your concern trolling and repeated advocacy for "HankT's so and so" ideas stands contrary to reason, rights, and even the law.

    I don't think you read the details either, Tawnos.

    Here, they are at this link:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...highlight=rfid







  22. #22
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    kent cops always seem to be harrassing people.

    http://www.ci.kent.wa.us/parksmainte....aspx?id=11186

    kheran park should have a get together.

    right next to the police station.

  23. #23
    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    If their defense is 'officer safety', they're gonna have a damn hard time justifying it if they just put it back in the holster after running the serial #.


    Maybe they want a receipt for the holster it's in too, or the clothes I'm wearing, ya know, make sure it's not stolen, and hey, run my IPOD while you're at it, I'd hate to be in possession of a stolen Ipod!
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

  24. #24
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    Well just got back from kent pd and filed my complaint I informed the officer that i would be recording the conversation which he agreed to i also asked for a copy of the poilce report.

    He alsotold me that the sargeant who supervises the officers whom I had my encounter with was not available so he would perform the initial part of my complaint.

    P.s sorry for my lack of paragraphs i was so mad I didnt evern notice I was doing that. Also thanks for the support you all have shown me.

  25. #25
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    HankT wrote:
    Tawnos wrote:
    Assuming you're as dense as your online persona, I'll type slowly so you can absorb it.

    We have the right to be safe from unreasonable search and seizure. This right has been defined to mean search without consent when there is no probable cause a crime has occurred. RFID allows search and seizure of a person's information without their consent, and without any suspicion of wrongdoing. Moreover, mandatory RFID provides a means by which to search for those concealed carrying, effectively allowing search of all parties within the room sans consent.

    There are other implications as well - RFID skimming to "clone" guns could become a way for criminals to avoid traces, or to frame innocent victims.

    How, in any way (apart from the aforementioned density), can you not see that allowing instant search of identification associated with a person is an inherent violation of the right against unreasonable search and seizure? Next you know we will all need implanted RFID to make sure that sex offenders aren't too close to schools, or drunk drivers aren't allowed to purchase alcohol, or any of a thousand other offenses.

    In short: HFID is as stupid an idea as you are dense an individual. Your concern trolling and repeated advocacy for "HankT's so and so" ideas stands contrary to reason, rights, and even the law.

    I don't think you read the details either, Tawnos.

    Here, they are at this link:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...highlight=rfid
    Thanks for bolding the important sentences. You saved me the hassle. If you don't care to respond to any points beyond saying "you didn't read the details," I will assume you're conceding them and have nothing constructive to contribute. Until such time that you choose to respond to all points with how you avoid the problems, technical and legal, I wish you a good day, sir.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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