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Thread: College Carry - ASU says its illegal?

  1. #1
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    ASU claims it is illegal to carry on college grounds. Is this correct? I just read another post that says its not illegal, and they carry at ASU?

    http://www.asu.edu/aad/manuals/pdp/pdp201-05.html

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    Pace wrote:
    ASU claims it is illegal to carry on college grounds. Is this correct? I just read another post that says its not illegal, and they carry at ASU?

    http://www.asu.edu/aad/manuals/pdp/pdp201-05.html
    Lets take a look at the ARS Statutes ASU is citing:

    1.) ARS 13-2911: http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/13/02911.htm Interference with or disruption of an educational institution.
    How it applies (or rather does not apply):
    1. Intentionally, knowingly or recklessly interfering with or disrupting the normal operations of an educational institution (...by threat of physical damage to people, property, etc)
    2. Intentionally or knowingly entering or remaining on the property of any educational institution for the purpose of interfering with the lawful use of the property or in any manner as to deny or interfere with the lawful use of the property by others
    3. Intentionally or knowingly refusing to obey a lawful order given pursuant to subsection C of this section. (which says the the chief administrator can ask you to leave if he or his agent *thinks* that you are up to something that *might* be disruptive)- Is carrying a gun disruptive? If you are a leftist/hippie gun-control advocating sissy, yes- it likely is. Which may mean that if a professor sees one- they will freak.

    Moral of ARS 13-2911: Conceal your weapon. And for the love of pete, don't get made.

    The second statue is http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/13/03101.htm Definitions. It Defines what weapons, etc. are. If you are unsure what a weapon is, I suggest you leave this site, and go to pbskids.org. You are clearly at the wrong website.

    The Third ARS they cite: ARS 13-3102http://<a href="http://www.azleg.sta.../03102.htm</a>: Misconduct involving weapons; defenses; classification; definitions.
    ARS 13-3102 is DEFIANTLY a code section that every AZ gun owner should be familiar with. I'd like to draw your attention to sub-section L 3-4 which reads,
    "3. "School" means a public or nonpublic kindergarten program, common school or high school.
    4. "School grounds" means in, or on the grounds of, a school."

    Please note that section 3 DOES NOT INCLUDE UNIVERSITIES AND OR COLLEGES, PUBLIC OR PRIVATE. So, 13-3102 does not apply to lawful carry of a weapon on ASU Campus.

    The 4th section ASU cites is: ARS 13–3102 (A) (10) to 13–3103 http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/13/03102.htm
    Ok, "10. Unless specifically authorized by law, entering any public establishment or attending any public event and carrying a deadly weapon on his person after a reasonable request by the operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event or the sponsor's agent to remove his weapon and place it in the custody of the operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event for temporary and secure storage of the weapon pursuant to section 13-3102.01; or"

    My problem here is, WEAPON STORAGE. Does ASU have temporary weapon storage? Im not sure. But, for me: I refer to subsection C.4, "4. A person specifically licensed, authorized or permitted pursuant to a statute of this state or of the United States."
    CCW anyone?

    The moral of my story: If you have a CCW and exercise it lawfully, You have not broken any of the aforementioned laws.
    BUT
    If caught you risk weapon forfeiture- and if you are a student or faculty, suspension, expulsion, or a fine as pursuant to the Arizona Board of Regent's Rules. (emphasis on the word RULES- not LAWS)

    If you chose to carry at ASU, U of A, or any other university or college in AZ, be aware of the rules and laws and their associated penalties for breaking them.

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    After reviewing ABOR's procedures, I found an interesting penalty: They can actually revoke your degree, if it was received from any of the public universities (ASU, U of A, and NAU)

    So, to repeat myself; It's isnt against the LAW, but it is very much against their RULES- If you are, or were, a student or graduate of those universities- please consider what the risks are.

    Having your degree revoked would really suck. http://www.abor.asu.edu/1_the_regent.../chapter_v.htm ABOR 5-208.G.d

    EDIT: THIS IS MY OPINION- I'm Just a guy, not a lawyer. Be safe, be smart.

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    We are tracking AZ as banning carry on campus - see http://www.opencarry.org/college.html. is this not correct?

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    Mike wrote:
    We are tracking AZ as banning carry on campus - see http://www.opencarry.org/college.html.Β* is this not correct?
    I'm not sure. I can defiantly argue that it is incorrect, but if someone were to show up on a college campus with a OC firearm- they will most likely be chatting with college police.

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    Another thought, I wonder how ASU will confirm to ARS 12‑781. Transportation or storage of firearms; motor vehicles; applicability come October 1.

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    Pace wrote:
    ASU claims it is illegal to carry on college grounds. Is this correct? I just read another post that says its not illegal, and they carry at ASU?

    http://www.asu.edu/aad/manuals/pdp/pdp201-05.html
    That's not what it says - it says its prohibited - so what?

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    I dunno guys, in light of the facts- and after review of Arizona Revised Statutes, I am unable to find any statute that expressly or otherwise prohibits carry on a College or University campus (private or public). All that I can find is Arizona Board of Regents policy. I would recommend that the US map http://<a href="http://www.opencarry...llege.html</a> be changed to display AZ as "Carry Not Statutorily Prohibited".

    ASU's website (mentioned above) states; "In addition to any sanctions available under applicable law, violations of this policy by ASU students are subject to sanctions under the ABOR Student Code of Conduct, and violations of this policy by ASU employees are subject to sanctions under ABOR and ASU policies governing employee conduct."

    Unless you are a student or employee- i'd imagine you could even open carry. You may be required to check your weapon- much like the DMV or library though.

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    ASU is pretty hippy, i imagine BIG problems if you get caught with a gun there

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    r6-rider wrote:
    ASU is pretty hippy, i imagine BIG problems if you get caught with a gun there
    But that is not the issue - the issue is whether open c=or concealed carry violates any state criminal statute or regulation - obvioulsy students and staff MAY be subject to pretty much whatever administrative punishment a state college wants to meet out for rules violatiuons - but visitors should be fine.

    Pending some more research, we will change the map.



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    Is there anyone else out there that would confirm the research? Here is the quick rundown:

    ASU lists this as reasons why they prohibit firearms:
    http://www.asu.edu/aad/manuals/pdp/pdp201-05.html

    Arizona Revised Statutes §§ 13–2911; http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/13/02911.htm

    13–3101;http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/13/03101.htm

    13–3102 (A) (10) http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/13/03102.htm

    13–3103http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/13/03103.htm

    Arizona Board of Regents Policy Manual - 5-308 http://www.abor.asu.edu/1_the_Regent...er_v.htm#5-308 NOTE: Policy manual is POLICY- Not LAW



    My results are such(please see previous listing for explanation and argument):

    13–2911: No statutory prohibition here. However Any deadly weapon, dangerous instrument or explosive that is used, displayed or possessed by a person in violation of a rule adopted pursuant to this subsection shall be forfeited and sold, destroyed or otherwise disposed of pursuant to chapter 39 of this title.- Since they reference this statute, it is plausible that they, the school, may confiscate and dispose of your firearm.

    13–3101 Definition of what a weapon is. No statutory prohibition here.

    13–3102 (A) (10) to 13-3103 (A)(12) PROHIBITS, "12. Possessing a deadly weapon on school grounds", but then in (L)(3) Defines; "School" means a public or nonpublic kindergarten program, common school or high school. So, No statutory prohibition here with regard to public College or University.

    13–3103 Definition of explosive, No statutory prohibition here.

    Can anyone else here review my findings and confirm what I cave found- or show me what I have missed, or where I am wrong? Thanks!

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    AZ Patriot wrote:
    13–2911: No statutory prohibition here. However Any deadly weapon, dangerous instrument or explosive that is used, displayed or possessed by a person in violation of a rule adopted pursuant to this subsection shall be forfeited and sold, destroyed or otherwise disposed of pursuant to chapter 39 of this title.- Since they reference this statute, it is plausible that they, the school, may confiscate and dispose of your firearm.
    OK, focus - read that section, it allows the state college to establish law - what does it allow, and what rule has been promulgated by the state college?

    Be concise - less is more.

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    ASU has signs that say no firearms, all over the place. However, if they are a public college, is this a violation of State Law? Is there are preemption as they are STATE PROPERTY?



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    As I am researching more about ASU's weapon "policy" with regards to Mike's comments- holy crap. has anybody actually read ABOR's policies? Talk about unconstitutional! 1st, 2nd, 5th amendment rights are all thrown out the window. Does anyone here know how to challenge something like this in court without having broken any laws/rules?

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    In general, I believe there must be some harm that has taken place due to a law before it can be challenged. It is my understanding that this is why it took so long for the DC/Heller case to come about.
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good" - George Washington
    "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." - Mahatma Gandhi

    As always, insert standard IANAL disclaimer here.

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    Harm can be as much as me asking the ASU Police Chief permission to carry my weapon on school grounds, and then being denied the right to do so.

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    From what I can make of this whole mess is that AZ Law requires the Board of Regents to have a policy. But that policy that does not have the force of law. Students and faculty can face administrative action, but the general public is not bound to their policy.

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    Pace:
    Absolutely. If you are denied the ability to carry, then yes, that is harm. But simply assuming that you understand what it means and don't carry would fail to meet that requirement, just as understanding that the DC regs would not allow you to register a handgun and then doing nothing about it.

    AZ Patriot:
    Can you walk us through the reasoning that the Board of Regents Policy would only apply to affiliates (students, faculty, etc) and not visitors to campus?
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good" - George Washington
    "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." - Mahatma Gandhi

    As always, insert standard IANAL disclaimer here.

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    FYI- I was sent this from a friend who attends ASU- he emailed the Chief asking about weapon storage at ASU):

    "The answer is β€œyes,” we do have storage lockers for the Tempe Campus. They are located on the outside of our Police building on the southeast corner of College and Apache. During normal business hours you can get a key from our front desk receptionist. You lock your weapon up and keep the key with you. Upon your return, you give the key back to the receptionist. If our lobby is closed, when you want to secure a weapon, there is a speaker box on a pole outside our door that communicates directly with our Dispatch Center. They will have an officer or a Police Aide respond to give you a key. If the lobby is closed when you return, simply leave the key inside the locker and let the Dispatch Center know that the key is there. "

    Too bad ASU PD is so far away from the stadium. I wonder if Tempe's police HQ has storage.

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    Q: What do you do while traveling there OC, or CC?

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    I have wondered the same thing myself. Apparently i need to make sure the transporter beams me in right in the ASUPD building.

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    Who is up for a peaceful OC march on the ASU campus? :celebrate

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    Campuses are not considered Public Property, even thought they are "Public" entities. Strange, but true.

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    http://www.kold.com/Global/story.asp?S=11215324

    Sep 28, 2009 11:03 PM MS[/i]

    By Mark Stine - email

    Tucson, AZ (KOLD) - "What good is a gun in a car? You're never going to bring it on campus to use it, so you might as well leave it at home," U of A sophomore Monterris Goshay said.

    Students at the University of Arizona sound off on the new law allowing concealed weapons permit holders to bring their gun to campus with them.

    "It's a little alarming seeing as how many school shootings have gone on in the past, not even five years," Charlie Lotzar told KOLD.

    The guns won't be headed to class, they must stay inside a locked vehicle or in a locked case on a motorcycle.

    University of Arizona campus police are aware of the changes and say they don't expect any problems.

    Sergeant Juan Alvarez explained, "We're just going to be cognizant that they are allowed to bring weapons on campus, but its really not going to change the day to day operations on how we do things."

    Jim Stover's the Director of Education at the Marksman Pistol Institute in Tucson. He says this new law is simply a convenience for concealed weapons permit holders.

    "Allowing them to carry to the area, lock it up in the vehicle or if they're riding a motorcycle, in a lockable case on the motorcycle, go out do what they're doing and then be able to safely drive home," Stover said.

    Stover adds, the concealed weapons permit holders got finger printed and a background checks when they applied for their permits. They also went through training in a classroom and on the range.

    "I think that will extend and help us do our job in keeping everyone safe," Sgt. Alvarez said.

    But no matter what training the permit holders go through, the University of Arizona still doesn't like the idea of guns on campus. They're just seven years removed from the U of A College of Nursing shooting, where three nursing professors were killed by a disgruntled student.

    "We don't see any real redeeming qualities in allowing guns to come closer to our buildings, our faculty, our staff, but it's the state law now," UA spokesman Paul Allvin explained.

    It's a law, Paul Allvin says, the University would like to see change soon. "I think there's a real enthusiasm to see about getting an exception for educational institutions written into the law in the near future."

    Mine was one of only two responses:

    The entire story is misleading. Bearing arms in Arizona is a 'Right' as enumerated in Sec 2 Art 26 of the AZ Constitution. Such arms may be born openly by anyone 18 years or older not otherwise prohibited (18 USC Gun Control Act of 1969) within the state of Arizona. Concealed carry was not even an option until 1994.

    Concealed carry requires a state issued Concealed Weapons Permit (CWP) and the bearer must be 21 years of age and not otherwise prohibited. The story, as written gives the impresion that only CWP holders may keep firearms in their motor vehicles. Not so. 'Anyone' may keep loaded firearms in their vehicles or wear them holstered on their person openly. The CWP 'permit' is to carry concealed... NOT to carry. Anyone may bear arms openly in Arizona.

    Note the ignorance of the student comments. Critical thinking is NOT one of their strong suites. If you're gonna leave your gun in your vehicle... Itdoesn't matter (legally) if you have a CWP or not. I watched this on the news (ha) last night 'n apparently none of these Tucson news weenies have a clue either.

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:

    Sep 28, 2009 11:03 PM MS[/i]

    By Mark Stine - email

    Tucson, AZ (KOLD) - "What good is a gun in a car? You're never going to bring it on campus to use it, so you might as well leave it at home," U of A sophomore Monterris Goshay said.
    Link?????????

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