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College Carry - ASU says its illegal?
- Thread starter Pace
- Start date
Chez
Regular Member
imported post
Who is up for a peaceful OC march on the ASU campus? :celebrate
Who is up for a peaceful OC march on the ASU campus? :celebrate
Pace
Regular Member
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Campuses are not considered Public Property, even thought they are "Public" entities. Strange, but true.
Campuses are not considered Public Property, even thought they are "Public" entities. Strange, but true.
Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
imported post
http://www.kold.com/Global/story.asp?S=11215324
Sep 28, 2009 11:03 PM MS[/i]
By Mark Stine - email
Tucson, AZ (KOLD) - "What good is a gun in a car? You're never going to bring it on campus to use it, so you might as well leave it at home," U of A sophomore Monterris Goshay said.
Students at the University of Arizona sound off on the new law allowing concealed weapons permit holders to bring their gun to campus with them.
"It's a little alarming seeing as how many school shootings have gone on in the past, not even five years," Charlie Lotzar told KOLD.
The guns won't be headed to class, they must stay inside a locked vehicle or in a locked case on a motorcycle.
University of Arizona campus police are aware of the changes and say they don't expect any problems.
Sergeant Juan Alvarez explained, "We're just going to be cognizant that they are allowed to bring weapons on campus, but its really not going to change the day to day operations on how we do things."
Jim Stover's the Director of Education at the Marksman Pistol Institute in Tucson. He says this new law is simply a convenience for concealed weapons permit holders.
"Allowing them to carry to the area, lock it up in the vehicle or if they're riding a motorcycle, in a lockable case on the motorcycle, go out do what they're doing and then be able to safely drive home," Stover said.
Stover adds, the concealed weapons permit holders got finger printed and a background checks when they applied for their permits. They also went through training in a classroom and on the range.
"I think that will extend and help us do our job in keeping everyone safe," Sgt. Alvarez said.
But no matter what training the permit holders go through, the University of Arizona still doesn't like the idea of guns on campus. They're just seven years removed from the U of A College of Nursing shooting, where three nursing professors were killed by a disgruntled student.
"We don't see any real redeeming qualities in allowing guns to come closer to our buildings, our faculty, our staff, but it's the state law now," UA spokesman Paul Allvin explained.
It's a law, Paul Allvin says, the University would like to see change soon. "I think there's a real enthusiasm to see about getting an exception for educational institutions written into the law in the near future."
Mine was one of only two responses:
The entire story is misleading. Bearing arms in Arizona is a 'Right' as enumerated in Sec 2 Art 26 of the AZ Constitution. Such arms may be born openly by anyone 18 years or older not otherwise prohibited (18 USC Gun Control Act of 1969) within the state of Arizona. Concealed carry was not even an option until 1994.
Concealed carry requires a state issued Concealed Weapons Permit (CWP) and the bearer must be 21 years of age and not otherwise prohibited. The story, as written gives the impresion that only CWP holders may keep firearms in their motor vehicles. Not so. 'Anyone' may keep loaded firearms in their vehicles or wear them holstered on their person openly. The CWP 'permit' is to carry concealed... NOT to carry. Anyone may bear arms openly in Arizona.
Note the ignorance of the student comments. Critical thinking is NOT one of their strong suites. If you're gonna leave your gun in your vehicle... Itdoesn't matter (legally) if you have a CWP or not. I watched this on the news (ha) last night 'n apparently none of these Tucson news weenies have a clue either.
http://www.kold.com/Global/story.asp?S=11215324
Sep 28, 2009 11:03 PM MS[/i]
By Mark Stine - email
Tucson, AZ (KOLD) - "What good is a gun in a car? You're never going to bring it on campus to use it, so you might as well leave it at home," U of A sophomore Monterris Goshay said.
Students at the University of Arizona sound off on the new law allowing concealed weapons permit holders to bring their gun to campus with them.
"It's a little alarming seeing as how many school shootings have gone on in the past, not even five years," Charlie Lotzar told KOLD.
The guns won't be headed to class, they must stay inside a locked vehicle or in a locked case on a motorcycle.
University of Arizona campus police are aware of the changes and say they don't expect any problems.
Sergeant Juan Alvarez explained, "We're just going to be cognizant that they are allowed to bring weapons on campus, but its really not going to change the day to day operations on how we do things."
Jim Stover's the Director of Education at the Marksman Pistol Institute in Tucson. He says this new law is simply a convenience for concealed weapons permit holders.
"Allowing them to carry to the area, lock it up in the vehicle or if they're riding a motorcycle, in a lockable case on the motorcycle, go out do what they're doing and then be able to safely drive home," Stover said.
Stover adds, the concealed weapons permit holders got finger printed and a background checks when they applied for their permits. They also went through training in a classroom and on the range.
"I think that will extend and help us do our job in keeping everyone safe," Sgt. Alvarez said.
But no matter what training the permit holders go through, the University of Arizona still doesn't like the idea of guns on campus. They're just seven years removed from the U of A College of Nursing shooting, where three nursing professors were killed by a disgruntled student.
"We don't see any real redeeming qualities in allowing guns to come closer to our buildings, our faculty, our staff, but it's the state law now," UA spokesman Paul Allvin explained.
It's a law, Paul Allvin says, the University would like to see change soon. "I think there's a real enthusiasm to see about getting an exception for educational institutions written into the law in the near future."
Mine was one of only two responses:
The entire story is misleading. Bearing arms in Arizona is a 'Right' as enumerated in Sec 2 Art 26 of the AZ Constitution. Such arms may be born openly by anyone 18 years or older not otherwise prohibited (18 USC Gun Control Act of 1969) within the state of Arizona. Concealed carry was not even an option until 1994.
Concealed carry requires a state issued Concealed Weapons Permit (CWP) and the bearer must be 21 years of age and not otherwise prohibited. The story, as written gives the impresion that only CWP holders may keep firearms in their motor vehicles. Not so. 'Anyone' may keep loaded firearms in their vehicles or wear them holstered on their person openly. The CWP 'permit' is to carry concealed... NOT to carry. Anyone may bear arms openly in Arizona.
Note the ignorance of the student comments. Critical thinking is NOT one of their strong suites. If you're gonna leave your gun in your vehicle... Itdoesn't matter (legally) if you have a CWP or not. I watched this on the news (ha) last night 'n apparently none of these Tucson news weenies have a clue either.
Mike
Site Co-Founder
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Sonora Rebel wrote:
Sonora Rebel wrote:
Link?????????
Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
Mike
Site Co-Founder
imported post
Sonora Rebel wrote:
Can somebody explain what new law they are talking about and why it is relevant on college campuseswhere gun carry to class is not a crime anyway??
Sonora Rebel wrote:
Can somebody explain what new law they are talking about and why it is relevant on college campuseswhere gun carry to class is not a crime anyway??
Pace
Regular Member
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State Law? What is this?
State Law? What is this?
Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
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This new lawis applicable to Arizona.
http://www.svherald.com/articles/2009/06/27/news/doc4a45c464a276c785939623.txt
PHOENIX — Saying it will make people safer, state senators voted Friday to let people with concealed weapons permits carry them onto college and university campuses where they are now forbidden.
The 15-6 vote on the provision in HB 2439 came after backers said they believe that having people who are licensed by the state to have weapons should cut down on the number of massacres that occur on campuses. And Sen. John Huppenthal, R-Chandler, said that has happened in Arizona.
He did not refer by name to the 2002 incident at the University of Arizona where three instructors at the College of Nursing were slain by student Robert S. Flores Jr. who then turned the gun on himself.
But Huppenthal said the evidence shows that it makes sense, from a safety standpoint, to let people carry guns.
“The states that have concealed carry (laws) have statistically significant smaller mass shootings,’’ he said.
Huppenthal said he would not support guns on public school campuses, saying Arizona has no history of massacres on those campuses.
“The situation is different in our universities,’’ he said.
“We’ve had a mass shooting in our universities,’’ Huppenthal continued. “We sort of have a track record of not being safe in our universities.’’
And he said that, based on the research, allowing those who have concealed weapons permits to bring them onto campuses would mean “our universities would be safer.’’
University of Arizona lobbyist Greg Fahey said his school opposes allowing anyone to have guns on campus. And Fahey said he’s not convinced that rule should be waived for those with permits to carry concealed weapons even though they have undergone background checks, training in state laws and been shown to be proficient in the use of the gun.
“Our chief of police and the police of all three universities have consistently said that their experience is that having people with guns is just more of an invitation to have accidents, to have problems,’’ Fahey said. “And they don’t want anyone who’s not a sworn officer being armed on campus.’’
But Huppenthal said he’s not convinced that students and faculty are safer with gun-free campuses.
The senator said his requests for information from universities shows “they haven’t done any careful analysis’’ of the crimes. And what they have done, he said, only involves those crimes on campus.
“But the truth is, there’s a large number of rapes of coeds as they leave campus and they go to their home,’’ Huppenthal said. He said these women are forced to leave any guns at home — and leave themselves vulnerable while walking to class — because current rules prohibit weapons on campus.
HB 2439:
http://dustinsgunblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/az-sb-1243-defensive-display-hb-2439.html
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This new lawis applicable to Arizona.
http://www.svherald.com/articles/2009/06/27/news/doc4a45c464a276c785939623.txt
PHOENIX — Saying it will make people safer, state senators voted Friday to let people with concealed weapons permits carry them onto college and university campuses where they are now forbidden.
The 15-6 vote on the provision in HB 2439 came after backers said they believe that having people who are licensed by the state to have weapons should cut down on the number of massacres that occur on campuses. And Sen. John Huppenthal, R-Chandler, said that has happened in Arizona.
He did not refer by name to the 2002 incident at the University of Arizona where three instructors at the College of Nursing were slain by student Robert S. Flores Jr. who then turned the gun on himself.
But Huppenthal said the evidence shows that it makes sense, from a safety standpoint, to let people carry guns.
“The states that have concealed carry (laws) have statistically significant smaller mass shootings,’’ he said.
Huppenthal said he would not support guns on public school campuses, saying Arizona has no history of massacres on those campuses.
“The situation is different in our universities,’’ he said.
“We’ve had a mass shooting in our universities,’’ Huppenthal continued. “We sort of have a track record of not being safe in our universities.’’
And he said that, based on the research, allowing those who have concealed weapons permits to bring them onto campuses would mean “our universities would be safer.’’
University of Arizona lobbyist Greg Fahey said his school opposes allowing anyone to have guns on campus. And Fahey said he’s not convinced that rule should be waived for those with permits to carry concealed weapons even though they have undergone background checks, training in state laws and been shown to be proficient in the use of the gun.
“Our chief of police and the police of all three universities have consistently said that their experience is that having people with guns is just more of an invitation to have accidents, to have problems,’’ Fahey said. “And they don’t want anyone who’s not a sworn officer being armed on campus.’’
But Huppenthal said he’s not convinced that students and faculty are safer with gun-free campuses.
The senator said his requests for information from universities shows “they haven’t done any careful analysis’’ of the crimes. And what they have done, he said, only involves those crimes on campus.
“But the truth is, there’s a large number of rapes of coeds as they leave campus and they go to their home,’’ Huppenthal said. He said these women are forced to leave any guns at home — and leave themselves vulnerable while walking to class — because current rules prohibit weapons on campus.
HB 2439:
http://dustinsgunblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/az-sb-1243-defensive-display-hb-2439.html
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Pace
Regular Member
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It requires them to store in the car... can't carry around the campus.. blah
It requires them to store in the car... can't carry around the campus.. blah
Notso
Campaign Veteran
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Mike wrote:
It wasn't against the law, but it was against school policies. I guess now with the 'parking lot' law, there can't be a policy against students for having a gun in a vehicle on the parking lot.
Edit: Guess we were answering at the same time there Pace
Mike wrote:
It wasn't against the law, but it was against school policies. I guess now with the 'parking lot' law, there can't be a policy against students for having a gun in a vehicle on the parking lot.
Edit: Guess we were answering at the same time there Pace
Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
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Pace wrote:
Pace wrote:
Yeah... but it's better than going to/from unarmed. There is no 'permit' required in AZ for carrying a firearm (loaded) in your POV. So... all this CWP stuff is kind'a moot. This falls in with the 'employer parking lot' law just enacted as well. I dunno what world these academe's inhabit... but people carry guns in Arizona. This just made part of that activity 'legal'.Afer all... it's a private property issue... which is also debatable 'cause it's State property. 'Doesn't affect me in the least, but it may pervent student car-jackings and robberies to/from the campus facilituies by those BG's who figure students are easy meat.
Mike
Site Co-Founder
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Sonora Rebel wrote:
Wrong bill - this bill failed, see botom of http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg/1r/bills/hb2439o.asp.
again, can someone from Arizona point us to the correct bill that caused these new stories about guns in cars being legal when there appears to be no law against campus gun carry in the first place?
Sonora Rebel wrote:
Wrong bill - this bill failed, see botom of http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg/1r/bills/hb2439o.asp.
again, can someone from Arizona point us to the correct bill that caused these new stories about guns in cars being legal when there appears to be no law against campus gun carry in the first place?
Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
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http://www.alphecca.com/?p=1771 As usual... the act is buried someplace.... but it was HB 2439 'n it's 'Hoyle'. So's Defensive Display and the company parkin' lot issue.
http://www.alphecca.com/?p=1771 As usual... the act is buried someplace.... but it was HB 2439 'n it's 'Hoyle'. So's Defensive Display and the company parkin' lot issue.
Mike
Site Co-Founder
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Sonora Rebel wrote:
Sonora Rebel wrote:
I still don;t see any clarity to this issue at all - nobody from Arizona can cite to the newly created or amended styatute?
JesseL
Regular Member
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Mike wrote:
ACDL on the bill: http://azcdl.org/html/2009_bills.html#sb1168
Arizona Legislature info about the bill: http://www.azleg.gov/DocumentsForBill.asp?Bill_Number=SB1168
Current AZ law as amended by the bill: http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/12/00781.htm&Title=12&DocType=ARS
Mike wrote:
It was SB1168:
ACDL on the bill: http://azcdl.org/html/2009_bills.html#sb1168
Arizona Legislature info about the bill: http://www.azleg.gov/DocumentsForBill.asp?Bill_Number=SB1168
Current AZ law as amended by the bill: http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/12/00781.htm&Title=12&DocType=ARS
protector84
Regular Member
imported post
I'll take a stab (or shot) at this one. There never was any law in Arizona prohibiting firearms being stored in one's own privately owned vehicle or motorcycle. The problem was that schools, workplaces, and other establishments developed their own policies against it. This meant that a student could be expelled or employee fired from having a firearm in their vehicle. The new bill prohibiting public or private entities from banning firearms in privately owned vehicles on their lots will not make these entities' policies null and void.
ASU and UA had policies about "no weapons on campus." I've consistently had my gun on campus when I have dropped off or picked someone up from school or visited the campus. The firearm would either remain in my vehicle or if I got out of the vehicle to wait for someone, I wasn't actually on school property but parallel parked on a street going through the school. Of course, UA would say that that was unlawful but try something and let me sue them. To make a long story short, with the new "guns in vehicles law" that just took affect, ASU and UA and any other schools in question now have to update their policies to be consistent with the state law. What is not correct, however, is saying that this is limited to CCW permit holders. That is not what the new state law said. I welcome someone to challenge it if it becomes an issue for them.
I'll take a stab (or shot) at this one. There never was any law in Arizona prohibiting firearms being stored in one's own privately owned vehicle or motorcycle. The problem was that schools, workplaces, and other establishments developed their own policies against it. This meant that a student could be expelled or employee fired from having a firearm in their vehicle. The new bill prohibiting public or private entities from banning firearms in privately owned vehicles on their lots will not make these entities' policies null and void.
ASU and UA had policies about "no weapons on campus." I've consistently had my gun on campus when I have dropped off or picked someone up from school or visited the campus. The firearm would either remain in my vehicle or if I got out of the vehicle to wait for someone, I wasn't actually on school property but parallel parked on a street going through the school. Of course, UA would say that that was unlawful but try something and let me sue them. To make a long story short, with the new "guns in vehicles law" that just took affect, ASU and UA and any other schools in question now have to update their policies to be consistent with the state law. What is not correct, however, is saying that this is limited to CCW permit holders. That is not what the new state law said. I welcome someone to challenge it if it becomes an issue for them.
Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
imported post
protector84 wrote:
protector84 wrote:
You got it! There's nothing that states CWP holders only can store (carry) guns in their POV. CCW is to conceal weapons on your person. The morons (primarily the media) who obfuscate this fact are either being deliberately disingenous (lying) or have no freakin' idea what they're talking about. 'Same with the U of A wonks. If it doesn't fit their neocom agenda... they'll promulgate this B.S. to cloud the issue.
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ASU does permit the storage of firearms in personal vehicles as per the new law, but does not intend to advertise this. Reason being; there are those who are in "decision making positions" who are advocates for 2A rights- but if there is too much attention to the allowance, they fear that the school (specifically- their libtard colleagues) will adopt the "gun lot" provision. Such a lot would lead to increased criminal activity.
I agree with his thought. If i were a thief, i'd hit up the gun lot before the starving student lot any day. Yeah, there is a higher risk, but a far higher pay-off.
ASU does permit the storage of firearms in personal vehicles as per the new law, but does not intend to advertise this. Reason being; there are those who are in "decision making positions" who are advocates for 2A rights- but if there is too much attention to the allowance, they fear that the school (specifically- their libtard colleagues) will adopt the "gun lot" provision. Such a lot would lead to increased criminal activity.
I agree with his thought. If i were a thief, i'd hit up the gun lot before the starving student lot any day. Yeah, there is a higher risk, but a far higher pay-off.
Mike
Site Co-Founder
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JesseL wrote:
JesseL wrote:
Thanks! As noted in the statute, the storage provision is applicable only if possessin is not generall banned under state law - so all the halabalu at the coleges verifies that gun carry on AXZ state colleges if not a viiolation of state criminal law even if it may be against college "rules" - John will adjust the map soon