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Thread: OCing in Stratford Town Hall

  1. #1
    Regular Member Lenny Benedetto's Avatar
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    Today I had to go to town hall to get a permit to strip and shingle my roof.
    This process requires that you get signatures from the town Tax Assessor stating that your taxes are paid up to date, and then a stamp is needed from the Tax Collector, and a signature from Planning and Zoning that basically just says that you paid them $15, so they sign your paperwork. Then you get to go to the building department and write them a check and you are good to go.

    I head into Town hall with my friend (a builder) and my .380 on my hip.
    First we go to the Tax Assessor’s office. There are 3 people in line in front of us, we wait our turn hand them the paper, they sign it and then we head across the hall to the Tax Collector, wait in line again, get the stamp, and now we are off to the Planning and Zoning office (other side of town hall). At this point at least 30 people have seen me OCing, employees of town hall and others. Not a single comment from anyone.

    I go into the Planning and Zoning office say hello, make some small talk and take a seat in front of (John’s) desk to write my check. After the check writing and some nice small talk, he asks “Is that gun real” I respond with “Of course it is”.

    He tells me that “I am breaking the law and that I had better get out of town hall FAST!!” I ask him if I am breaking some sort of town ordinance that I am not aware of. He says “It is illegal to have a gun in town hall”. I give him my surprised look and tell him that I know that Mayor Miron carries in town hall. He tells me “NOT ANY MORE!”

    I then ask if it is posted on the door somewhere that carrying a gun in town hall is against the law. He points down the hall and tells me that the door is that way.

    So I lock up my gun in my trunk. Head back in to the Building department and pay for my permit. When I come back out, I check every entrance to town hall and find that it is not posted anywhere!

    When I got home I made a call to the Mayors’ office. He was in a meeting. I spoke with his assistant. As I started telling him my story, he told me that he saw me in the Tax Assessor’s office. He took down all the details and said that the Mayor will get back to me on this issue maybe not today, but soon.

    The mayor has an open door meeting tomorrow afternoon that I will be attending, if I do not get a call back before that!

    Carry On!

    Lenny
    The Connecticut Citizens Defense League is a non-partisan, grassroots organization devoted to advocating rights affirmed by the Constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Connecticut. We are especially dedicated to protecting the unalienable right of all citizens to keep and bear arms, for the defense of both self and state, through public enlightenment and legislative action.
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    Brilliant! I had never thought of doing that but that is certainly an interesting way to get an answer. I know some folks that work in Town Hall so I'll make some polite enquiries and see if they heard the story of "The massacre in Zoning".

    I guess he wasn't that sure of himself other than to tell you to leave because SPD didn't show up en-masse.

    I wonder if they'd have violated your rights whether or not you could take the settlement out of your tax burden from now until many years hence or if you have to accept the lump sum payment?

    According to www.townofstratford.com there's only one John in that department, a chap by the name of John Rusatsky the Zoning enforcement officer

    I'll be interested to hear what Jimbo has to say about employees making law abiding taxpayers feel unwelcome in the town hall that they pay money to provide. Knowing the way he operates I'm sure he will use it as some sort of leverage to go after the zoning department.

    Enjoy the meet the mayor tomorrow!

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    The pistol-packin' mayor should have an open carry open door meeting!

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    Well, as a former Stratforder, I just checked to town ordinances on the website, and there's none listed prohibiting carry in any government buildings.

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    Regular Member Lenny Benedetto's Avatar
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    When speaking with the Mayors Aide/Assistant he did supply me with Johns last name.
    I figured that if anyone wanted to know who he was they would look it up. LOL!!!



    The Connecticut Citizens Defense League is a non-partisan, grassroots organization devoted to advocating rights affirmed by the Constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Connecticut. We are especially dedicated to protecting the unalienable right of all citizens to keep and bear arms, for the defense of both self and state, through public enlightenment and legislative action.
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    Regular Member Lenny Benedetto's Avatar
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    Statkowski wrote:
    Well, as a former Stratforder, I just checked to town ordinances on the website, and there's none listed prohibiting carry in any government buildings.
    Actually I left something out of my story. I also called Gluegun. He is great at researching things like this for the CCDL. He also said that there was NO TOWN ORDINANCE!!

    Me and Jimmy gonna have a chat tomorrow and see what the story really is!!
    The Connecticut Citizens Defense League is a non-partisan, grassroots organization devoted to advocating rights affirmed by the Constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Connecticut. We are especially dedicated to protecting the unalienable right of all citizens to keep and bear arms, for the defense of both self and state, through public enlightenment and legislative action.
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    Well I got you beat hands down Lenny... I'm working down here in the Stamford Hilton for the rest of this week (and all last week) setting up and maintaining a network for all the employees being trained and guess who I see walking along to another (unrelated meeting to us)????

    Come on guess!


    Our very own attorney general Mr. Richard Blumenthal! so being the gregarious sort I am I stopped him, introduced myself and shook his hand. I thanked him for sending a response to my email regarding open carry. He looked confused, I said we were asking for a declaratory ruling? then I said "I sent it a couple of weeks ago, before you had to defend in the Kuck Goldberg hearing in the 2nd circuit last week" "Ohhh oh yes, Open carry... I remember" so I said "I'm hoping we hear something definitive pretty soon and I just wanted to thank you for looking at this and taking the time to respond. Oh and I hope we will see you in the Stratford parades" so he said he hoped he'd be in the parades and thanked me for emailing him.

    You never know who you will run into will you?!?

    Let us know how your chat with Jimmy goes.

    Robert

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    Regular Member Lenny Benedetto's Avatar
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    It is a shame that you couldnt get him to say that it is legal right there. Or maybe mention that DPS "had" asked him for a ruling on OC before you even sent your email to him, so he knows that you know he lied to you when he stated that they had not asked his office. If you did, you might have even got to see him RUN! AWAY that is...LOL!!
    We must all keep up the pressure on our elected officials, and make sure they know that we ARE watching and we are everywhere!! LMAO!

    I will absolutely post the outcome of my meeting today!!
    The Connecticut Citizens Defense League is a non-partisan, grassroots organization devoted to advocating rights affirmed by the Constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Connecticut. We are especially dedicated to protecting the unalienable right of all citizens to keep and bear arms, for the defense of both self and state, through public enlightenment and legislative action.
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    Regular Member romma's Avatar
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    Way to go Lenny!! Can't wait to hear the outcome.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Lenny Benedetto's Avatar
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    Stratford Mayor open door meeting:

    I show up for the meeting this afternoon to find the mayors door locked with a note on it stating that he would not be there today, however the meeting will be held in the town council chambers and sitting in for him will be none other than the Chief of Police John J. Buturla!!!!

    I was actually very happy to see him there since the Mayor would not have been the correct person to discuss Open Carry with.


    We talked for an hour. We talked Yankees for a little while, and then I started telling him my story of the day before. I didn’t get too far into the story when I just flat out asked if OC was legal. His immediate response was a definite NO!

    I informed him that he was wrong, and also stated that I wasn’t trying to be argumentative, and that I had proof that OC was legal. I produced new copies of the documents that I carry in my wallet (Thanks Jay) and explained where they came from. I also informed him of the Goldberg case and all the details.

    I then proceeded to tell him about all the emails that were sent to the AG asking for clarification, and how he did respond to only Robert, and how he blamed DPS for never asking him. I also explained how DPS HAS ASKED FOR CLARIFICATION.

    He told me that in 31 years of being in law enforcement he had never seen anyone OC and that all the training that LEO’s go through in CT they are always told that CT is a CC state. I also informed him that I OC all the time now and that I was not a trouble maker and just doing what is perfectly legal in CT. I also stated that if I were arrested anywhere in CT for exercising my right to OC, that I would be contacting Rachel [/i]Baird (Attorney for James Goldberg).

    He assured me that he would look into what I was talking about and thanked me for bringing this to his attention.

    He was really cool through the entire hour of discussion. I asked if it would be OK if I stopped by his office in the future to see what progress he makes in his research of OC, he told me that would be fine. I truly believe that he will be contacting the AG on this issue. I left the meeting feeling very good!

    Oh and I almost forgot that I gave him one of our CCDL cards and explained who we are and what we are all about and how we are a state wide organization with more members from Stratford than any other town!
    The Connecticut Citizens Defense League is a non-partisan, grassroots organization devoted to advocating rights affirmed by the Constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Connecticut. We are especially dedicated to protecting the unalienable right of all citizens to keep and bear arms, for the defense of both self and state, through public enlightenment and legislative action.
    Join Here: http://www.ccdl.us/membership

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    Very cool Lenny... this is what grass roots advocacy is all about! I do enjoy the part about putting him on notice that as nice of a guy as you are, any violation of your rights will cost him (and his brother by default as the town attorney) a civil rights lawsuit.

    I'll be interested to hear what he comes up with too, and if what he figures out will filter down to the rank and file who ultimately would be the ones making consensual contact if you chose to entertain it or felony takedowns which would earn them a jackpot.

    Not a bad days work eh? Perhaps we can make sure at least Stratford is a little slice of OC heaven and work outwards from there. We have Ken in Milford, and so on.

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    Regular Member Douglas in CT's Avatar
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    BRAVO! :celebrate


    Assumption: His office is located in the police station.

    Just be sure to visit him unarmed.
    - Every police station I have seen has a "weapons" prohibited sign on the front door.

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    Regular Member Lenny Benedetto's Avatar
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    Today I received a welcome surprise when I answered the phone.

    It was Stratford, Chief of Police Buturla. He informed me that he is, looking into the laws regarding Open Carry in the state. He did say that he found conflicting information on Board of Firearms Permit Examiners website. I told him that up until recently they did say that we were a concealed carry state, but this language has been removed.

    We both agreed that the AG is the one that needs to make a declaration, and that his declaration has to be rooted in LAW, not just someones perception of it.

    Hopefully the AG will not ignore a request from a Police Chief for a declaration!

    Chief Butrula has been nothing but a stand up guy with me! and I thank him for getting back to me so quickly. Hopefully more Police Chiefs in our state can get on board and help us get the answers we are looking for.

    Carry On!

    Lenny
    The Connecticut Citizens Defense League is a non-partisan, grassroots organization devoted to advocating rights affirmed by the Constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Connecticut. We are especially dedicated to protecting the unalienable right of all citizens to keep and bear arms, for the defense of both self and state, through public enlightenment and legislative action.
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    Lenny, well done!

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    cool lenny, hopefully you get some feedback quickly

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    Regular Member Lenny Benedetto's Avatar
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    Welcome to the OC forum KevinP!!
    The Connecticut Citizens Defense League is a non-partisan, grassroots organization devoted to advocating rights affirmed by the Constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Connecticut. We are especially dedicated to protecting the unalienable right of all citizens to keep and bear arms, for the defense of both self and state, through public enlightenment and legislative action.
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    Next time you visit him you should take a nice printout of Terry Vs Ohio as well because permit required or not the mere presence of a gun is not RAS to initiate a non-consensual investigation. Something SPD rank and file ought to take to heart.

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    Oh I OC'd in front of some Bridgeport cops today, outside.. but it was going from BSR to the car and they were getting ready to go in and shoot so that doesn't count.

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    Regular Member Lenny Benedetto's Avatar
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    GoldCoaster wrote:
    Next time you visit him you should take a nice printout of Terry Vs Ohio as well because permit required or not the mere presence of a gun is not RAS to initiate a non-consensual investigation. Something SPD rank and file ought to take to heart.
    Robert,
    Can you send me a link to a good write up on that case, I will get it to the Chief.

    Thanks
    The Connecticut Citizens Defense League is a non-partisan, grassroots organization devoted to advocating rights affirmed by the Constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Connecticut. We are especially dedicated to protecting the unalienable right of all citizens to keep and bear arms, for the defense of both self and state, through public enlightenment and legislative action.
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    I hesitate to use wikipedia as a source but in this case they have a fairly good write-up of the case. Read through them and pick which one you like best.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v...jority_opinion

    http://www.oyez.org/cases/1960-1969/1967/1967_67

    http://www.4lawschool.com/terry.htm

    It's what makes the mere presence of a firearm (holstered not waving around like a mad man) not enough to stop and detain that person to find out who they are.

    In order for a police officer to stop and detain someone carrying a firearm they need reasonable articulable suspicion (RAS as you see in the forums) that said individual has/is/is about to commit a crime.

    Without this RAS the police can only initiate a consensual contact with the individual, if the individual does not wish to converse with the officer he cannot be compelled to.

    This is also why you read about what you need to do if you are approached by a LEO for open carrying:

    Am I under arrest? (worst case)

    LEO: Yes (then shut your yap then and there)
    LEO: No (see below)

    Am I being detained? (second worse case)

    LEO: Yes (then you can either ask what his RAS is to stop you or keep quiet)
    LEO: No (see below)

    Then by your own admission since I am neither under arrest, nor being detained, I am terminating this encounter and going on my way.

    always helps to have a voice recorder - you know me, I always have my MP3 player with me

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    Lenny Benedetto wrote:
    I produced new copies of the documents that I carry in my wallet (Thanks Jay) and explained where they came from.
    Where can I get a copy of these documents? Thanks!

    Ken

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    Regular Member Lenny Benedetto's Avatar
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    KenBGlock19 wrote:
    Lenny Benedetto wrote:
    I produced new copies of the documents that I carry in my wallet (Thanks Jay) and explained where they came from.
    Where can I get a copy of these documents? Thanks!

    Ken
    Right here!!

    Question #1

    http://www.ct.gov/bfpe/cwp/view.asp?...18126&PM=1

    And Here

    Last paragraph of this memo from the commissioner of DPS

    http://www.ourrockyhill.com/To%20Jud...0Ambiguity.pdf

    The Connecticut Citizens Defense League is a non-partisan, grassroots organization devoted to advocating rights affirmed by the Constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Connecticut. We are especially dedicated to protecting the unalienable right of all citizens to keep and bear arms, for the defense of both self and state, through public enlightenment and legislative action.
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    Thanks, Lenny!

    Ken

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    Regular Member Lenny Benedetto's Avatar
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    You are quite welcome Ken,

    Please make copies for anyone you know who carries OC or CC.

    Carry On!

    Lenny
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    I just forwarded the links to a buddy of mine and printed them off for myself. I'll be sure to pass it on!

    Ken

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