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Thread: Shots fired at South Haven Picnic

  1. #1
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    How did this happen, and When? I was there and didn't witness this!

    http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local..._rights_picnic

    Gun fired at gun-rights picnic
    Kalamazoo man faces misdemeanor


    SOUTH HAVEN, Mich. (WOOD) - A Kalamazoo man is accused of discharging a handgun while attending a gun-rights picnic at South Haven's South Beach Park.

    South Haven police Chief Rod Somerlott says 28-year-old Jonathan Sager was unloading his semiautomatic handgun when it went off Sept. 13 at the park, about 50 miles southwest of Grand Rapids. No one was hit.

    Somerlott tells the Kalamazoo Gazette that it appears to have been an accident.

    The Van Buren County prosecutor's office has charged Sager with reckless use of a firearm, a misdemeanor.

    Sager was arraigned Wednesday in Van Buren County District Court. A pretrial hearing is set for Oct. 6.

    He couldn't be reached for comment. A lawyer hasn't been assigned to his case and he doesn't have a published home phone number.
    Not the best of ways to advance the cause! :what:

  2. #2
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    An AD happened near the end of the picnic while a non-CPL holder was unloading his firearm so he could enter his vehicle lawfully. He was at the Picnic with some friends and family earlier in the day. This person is not a member of MOC, Inc.

    This is why Michigan needs to allow any person that can lawfully own a handgun to carry it loaded in their vehicle. The less a person has to handle their firearm the less chance for an AD.

    This is also a cautionary tale to always be careful when handling any firearm. It should be noted that the firearm was pointed in a safe direction (the ground) when it was fired.

    That and the info in the article is all I know of at this time.



    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  3. #3
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    There were only four of us still there when this happened... I didn't post anything as we did not know what would come out in the wash.

    The four of us still there had nothing to do with the AD. We were sitting around talking and we heard a bang... I went... that better not have been a gunshot

    Well on the way home I saw the guy who did it pulled over and standing there in handcuffs while they searched his friends vehicle.

    All I can say is please be VERY careful when you are handling your gun in public!!

    AND I agree with Venator that is he could have left it loaded that this wouldn't have happened!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    You know, accidents can happen.. but come on. Seriously.

  5. #5
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    It is too bad this happened but at this point all we can do is stress that we as the ambassadors of firearms rights MUST be extremely careful at all times ESP when unloading and storing in public...

    I feel that If he could have got in the vehicle with it still in it's holster this wouldn't have happened at all! Also remember when you are riding with others that you must take your time and not let them rush you (NOTE I am not saying that is what happened here) but in other cases when riding with others I have forgotten things myself ... never had an AD as a result... but then I have my CPL.

    Note the group of people from Kzoo that this guy was with left us at the pavilion about 10 min before I heard the shot.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  6. #6
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Another point IF anyone ever has the misfortune of having this happen CALL 911 your self and do not drive anywhere! Oh and put your shirt on if you have it off!!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    autosurgeon wrote:
    Another point IF anyone ever has the misfortune of having this happen CALL 911 your self and do not drive anywhere!
    That's exactly what I thought when I heard about it. Though it was an accident, it looks worse if you yourself don't call the police immediatly and decide to leave the scene. I understand the "person involved" was probably rattled, knew it was an accident, and probably just wanted to get out of there. We could play "shoulda, coulda, woulda" all day long. Unfortunatly it did happen. For future referrence, if this happens to anyone, follow the advice above.

    autosurgeon wrote:
    Oh and put your shirt on if you have it off!!
    ROFL!!!




  8. #8
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    I know you are wondering why I said this but hey standing half naked in handcuffs on a public street has to be more humiliating than standing there fully clothed....

    IMOP

    I saw this display on my way home soooo
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  9. #9
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    autosurgeon wrote:
    Another point IF anyone ever has the misfortune of having this happen CALL 911 your self and do not drive anywhere! Oh and put your shirt on if you have it off!!
    Follow that with a phone call to your lawyer saying that you'll be requiring his services.

    Then you'd better hope you have a few thousand for his retainer fee.

  10. #10
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    You are so right! I have two on speed dial...
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  11. #11
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    wow, why the hell was his finger even on the trigger, let alone pulling it, No such thing as a accidental discharge anymore. You gota come up with some pretty bazarr ways to have an AD now
    Freedom isn't free, but this is America! We will find a way to outsource it and save some money - Jeremy

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    jeremy05 wrote:
    wow, why the hell was his finger even on the trigger, let alone pulling it,* No such thing as a accidental discharge anymore.* You gota come up with some pretty bazarr ways to have an AD now
    MAYBE if you drop your gun and it's a crappy one....? I dunno. Cops said this guys barrel was pointed at the ground - and they recovered a bullet fragment.

  13. #13
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    Just so you know - as major of a black eye this is for OC - this guy isn't the worst by a long shot.

    There was a recent member from another state that went all "cop wannabe" and ended up killing someone in "self-defense" in the middle of a drug deal.

    At least this is only an ND, and there were few people around, the event was over, and no one was hurt.

  14. #14
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    autosurgeon wrote:
    You are so right! I have two on speed dial...
    Same here.

    Hear that people. Plug some attorney's phone numbers into your phone. Hopefully you will never need them!

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    jeremy05 wrote:
    wow, why the hell was his finger even on the trigger, let alone pulling it, No such thing as a accidental discharge anymore. You gota come up with some pretty bazarr ways to have an AD now
    MAYBE if you drop your gun and it's a crappy one....? I dunno. Cops said this guys barrel was pointed at the ground - and they recovered a bullet fragment.
    I'm not sure what happened (I wasn't there), but from what I "heard" his finger wasn'ton the trigger. I asked the same question. We may never know, it wasn't us in that situation.

  16. #16
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    T Vance wrote:
    autosurgeon wrote:
    You are so right! I have two on speed dial...
    Same here.

    Hear that people. Plug some attorney's phone numbers into your phone. Hopefully you will never need them!
    Try to commit at least one to memory.

    I just keep my wife's number ingrained, and when I'm in trouble, I make her make my phone calls.

  17. #17
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    Not sure what kind of gun he has/had, but I heard it was a Smith and Wesson. I just found this...

    http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...ectionId=10506

    I told this person to take it to a gunsmith and get it looked at (if he still has it, and it's not evidence), and see if it was a malfunction. Might help in court.

  18. #18
    Regular Member JeffSayers's Avatar
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    Get all the rope in Texas, find a tall oak tree...
    United we STAND!

  19. #19
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    autosurgeon wrote:
    Another point IF anyone ever has the misfortune of having this happen CALL 911 your self and do not drive anywhere! Oh and put your shirt on if you have it off!!
    I completely disagree with "call 911", and I tentatively disagree with "don't drive anywhere".

    What you say on a 911 call is recorded and could be used to convict you of a crime for which you really shouldn't be held responsible. You should remain silent and let your attorney do any talking that needs to be done.

    I disagree with "don't drive anywhere" IF it is not a crime to leave the scene of an AD. If it IS a crime to leave the scene of an AD, then I agree with "don't drive anywhere" or go anywhere else at all. But can someone cite the law which would make it a crimeto leave the scene of an AD?

    If it is not a crime to leave the scene of an AD, then you should check to be sure no person or property was damaged and, if not, then remain or leave at your discretion.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  20. #20
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    DanM wrote:
    autosurgeon wrote:
    Another point IF anyone ever has the misfortune of having this happen CALL 911 your self and do not drive anywhere! Oh and put your shirt on if you have it off!!
    I completely disagree with "call 911", and I tentatively disagree with "don't drive anywhere".

    What you say on a 911 call is recorded and could be used to convict you of a crime for which you really shouldn't be held responsible.* You should remain silent and let your attorney do any talking that needs to be done.

    I disagree with "don't drive anywhere" IF it is not a crime to leave the scene of an AD.* If it IS a crime to leave the scene of an AD, then I agree with "don't drive anywhere" or go anywhere else at all.* But can someone cite the law which would make it a crime*to leave the scene of an AD?

    If it is not a crime to leave the scene of an AD, then you should check to be sure no person or property was damaged and, if not, then remain or leave at your discretion.
    I disagree with the 911 call only in that it's not an emergency - no one was injured.

  21. #21
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    The anti-gunners are loving this one:

    http://blog.bradycampaign.org/?p=925

  22. #22
    Regular Member drew68's Avatar
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    ScottyT wrote:
    The anti-gunners are loving this one:

    http://blog.bradycampaign.org/?p=925
    Well at least they said he crashed the picnic, which makes it sound like he wasn't invited.

  23. #23
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_us...mp;country=USA

    I wonder if he's here and if so which one he is.

  24. #24
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    autosurgeon wrote:
    There were only four of us still there when this happened... I didn't post anything as we did not know what would come out in the wash.

    The four of us still there had nothing to do with the AD. We were sitting around talking and we heard a bang... I went... that better not have been a gunshot

    Well on the way home I saw the guy who did it pulled over and standing there in handcuffs while they searched his friends vehicle.

    All I can say is please be VERY careful when you are handling your gun in public!!

    AND I agree with Venator that is he could have left it loaded that this wouldn't have happened!
    Ugh. Sad day indeed.

    I was one of the people left that heard it. It actually was extremely quiet, for the close proximity we were to where it happened.

    Just remember people, if you can't rack the slide and pop the one out of the chamber while the safety is engaged, be EXTREMELY CAREFUL. When that safety comes off, you're dealing with a HOT WEAPON. Make sure you THINK. If you think about what you're doing, and don't put yourself in "mindless routine mode", you should never have an AD.

    1911 users like myself, you've probably all contemplated about something like this happening. Let's not let it happen again, m'kay?

    -Richard-

  25. #25
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    dougwg wrote:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_us...mp;country=USA

    I wonder if he's here and if so which one he is.

    My bet is on this one from the South Haven thread:

    "I will be there with possibly 3 others. I will also be carrying a mew gun. I am picking up a sa-xd .40 on the 8th."


    From the Brady Bunch:

    "They later stopped Sager, who was riding in a friend’s pickup truck, and three friends in the 800 block of LaGrange Street."

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