Walmart incident Reno

gunrunner1911 · Sep 25, 2009

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Not really open carry but makes the point of why we carry.

Well I'm sitting in the office this morning doing my routine of scheduling and emails putting together callback lists and the house phone rings. Just as i figured it's my wife she's a little excited and she tells me she stopped by Walmart on her way to work this morning and almost got carjacked/assaulted/kidnapped.
Walmart at 6:30am in Spanish Springs. One very large Samoan looking guy was cruising the store followed her out and hovered "looking for his car" but was concerned with another person hanging around an isle away. My wife made her way to the car and as she did the larger guy started heading in her direction like he just realised where he parked and found her keys. My wife doesn't park close and there aren't a lot of people around this early. She pops the trunk shoves her stuff in grabs her purse and drops the zipper on the holster pouch and moves to get in the car. The guy is totally focused on her closing the gap she's keeping an eye on him and the guy on her 6 who's intently watching. As she gets in the guy makes his move to close the gap from the front. At this point she drew the gun and brought it into plain sight. The guy took off.
This is just a quick description of the event so far when she gets home I will interview and try to run through it with her to get the details. She was pretty shaken talking to me.
Please people realise there are threats out there. Take a personal security class and practise using situational awareness and avoidance skills. The gun wasn't the deciding factor here that won this fight as many times it isn't. Being aware and responding in a calm controlled manner made this a nonincident. Get trained pratice and be safe.

kdt1970 · Sep 25, 2009

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Well, glad to here she didn’t get hurt. And that is cool she didn’t panic and new exactly what to do in that situation.

bookem03 · Sep 25, 2009

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gunrunner1911 I just sent this message but don't know where it went so here goes again. I have worked for the company for 6 years (in Asset Protection)I know people in that store,Call me after you talk to your wife and I will see if I can get the video.This will also let them know whats going on in there parking lot.Keep in mind that Walmart is OK with open carry.Glad that your wife is OK.

Steve 775-450-7388

gunrunner1911 · Sep 25, 2009

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Thanks Steve.,

I had an open carry run in with Spanish Springs Walmart awhile back. No big deal employee said something to me in the head then as we were walking out discussing it he ran across a manager who asked about a permit then called another person above them but stated it was fine with permit etc. It was all fine and me and the employee talked as I headed to the check out and he was going back to his dept. I think he was upset because the employee policy said no guns and he has a CCW. I have mine and I carry mostly concealed as my wife does. It just those occasions when I feel it is more convienent to OC that I do. I'm not personally a huge open carry fan just because I'm sort of self conscious about it. I'm an CCW instructor also butI definetly don't pick sides in class stating it's the persons decision.

All is good I need to find out what entrance area this took place. I would be interested in seeing the video. Had she actually had to draw down on the person she would have made out a report. With her just having to remove the firearms from her purse in plain sight and the guy taking off after seeing it we sort of figure no harm no foul.

timf343 · Sep 25, 2009

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Reminds me of why we carry (especially women)...

bookem03 · Sep 25, 2009

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gunrunner1911,We are still in the process of Educating our Associates.we have so many stores that it takes time to get the word out to everyone.Thats right,for associates you can't even have a gun in your car while your working.I have mine wherever I go.I would rather ask for forgiveness.Let me know if I can help you in anyway.

timf343 · Sep 25, 2009

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I ignore my company's rule too. Obviously I don't OC, because I still need my paycheck, but I CC at the office and try to work from home as often as possible.

HankT · Sep 25, 2009

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gunrunner1911 wrote:

Had she actually had to draw down on the person she would have made out a report. With her just having to remove the firearms from her purse in plain sight and the guy taking off after seeing it we sort of figure no harm no foul.

This is a bad decision based on poor logic.

If the guy was so malevolently dangerous as described in the OP, it is appropriate to call the local police and offer to give them the story and a description.

It's bordering on the unethical to fail to report the incident...

timf343 · Sep 25, 2009

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I tend to disagree. As soon as the report is made, now an investigation is done. That investigation may turn out like this:

Man claims innocence, walking toward his car, saw a woman pull a gun on him, was scared to death, thought he was being robbed, and ran away.

Woman claims she was scared, describes the scene, but admits to pulling a weapon.

Absent any other evidence or statement, here's what the police know:

Man in parking lot looking for his car.
Woman in parking lot looking for her car.
Man claims a gun was pointed at him.
Woman admits to pulling gun.

If charges are filed against the woman, it could be a misdemeanor (NRS 202.320) or gross misdemeanor (NRS 202.290).

OK, maybe I'm stretching, but why risk it? What's to gain? It's not a rhetorical question, I'm just trying to understand what is gained by filing this report?

bookem03 · Sep 25, 2009

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I agree with gunrunner "no harm no foul" I have dealt with some of the finest citizens in our state and have sent many of them BACK to prison.I carry ( open or concealed) for my protection and that of my family.You would not believe how many places these TOOLS show up.I have been told by more then one idiot that they would get me,if thats the case then I will be ready.It is not what I live for, but if it's them or me IT WON'T BE ME.

gunrunner1911 · Sep 25, 2009

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Well after a thorough debriefing The first person made it almost a car length away from her prior to the "brandishing" So right around 18-20 feet. The second was following the situation closely and was moving in her direction from behind her which she could see in the rear view mirror which she glanced at just prior to actually pulling the gun and pointing it directly at the guy from the top of the windshield through the windshield. The guy gave her a "look" and moved against her as soon as the weapon was presented he retreated and the other guy behind her left also.

This was a classic tag team and the cleaner cut Samoa looking guy was the distractor and the other was the assailant as it appears now. From the description of their actions they just weren't good enough with the acting of looking for there cars and keys in a near empty parking lot.

To those of you who want to call the police fine go ahead and spend the next 2 hrs giving your story adn statement to them only to have them think a law like 202.350 has been broken take YOU into custody have YOU spend some money to get out and then deal with it. Remember it's always good to talk with the police while your high on an adrenelin rush and your trying to remember the details all while the person whos listening has no interest in whats best for you. Criminals by nature don't call the cops. So the chances of this going anywhere is slim to none and slim just left town.

The cops aren't going to waste 1 minute looking for this guy. Hell i took them nearly ayear to find James Bilah the murderer of Brianna. They were complaining about not being able to afford DNA testing. It's done and over. I've trained more people in how to deal with this stuff than I can count so I've done my good dead.

bookem03 · Sep 26, 2009

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gunrunner1911.All I can say to that is AMEN!!!!:celebrate

WantaG18 · Sep 26, 2009

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gunrunner1911 wrote:

Not really open carry but makes the point of why we carry.

Well I'm sitting in the office this morning doing my routine of scheduling and emails putting together callback lists and the house phone rings. Just as i figured it's my wife she's a little excited and she tells me she stopped by Walmart on her way to work this morning and almost got carjacked/assaulted/kidnapped.
Walmart at 6:30am in Spanish Springs. One very large Samoan looking guy was cruising the store followed her out and hovered "looking for his car" but was concerned with another person hanging around an isle away. My wife made her way to the car and as she did the larger guy started heading in her direction like he just realised where he parked and found her keys. My wife doesn't park close and there aren't a lot of people around this early. She pops the trunk shoves her stuff in grabs her purse and drops the zipper on the holster pouch and moves to get in the car. The guy is totally focused on her closing the gap she's keeping an eye on him and the guy on her 6 who's intently watching. As she gets in the guy makes his move to close the gap from the front. At this point she drew the gun and brought it into plain sight. The guy took off.
This is just a quick description of the event so far when she gets home I will interview and try to run through it with her to get the details. She was pretty shaken talking to me.
Please people realise there are threats out there. Take a personal security class and practise using situational awareness and avoidance skills. The gun wasn't the deciding factor here that won this fight as many times it isn't. Being aware and responding in a calm controlled manner made this a nonincident. Get trained pratice and be safe.

I've trained more people in how to deal with this stuff than I can count so I've done my good dead.

I wonder why a trained individual, like your wife, wouldn't stop and return to the store if she noticed she was followed out. Also, why not park close in a near empty lot early in the morning when there aren't a lot of people around? If she felt like she was almost kidnappedwhy not call the police with at least a description of the large Somoan looking guy and the second man? Wouldn't it be beneficial for the next lady shopping there who might not be trained in situational awareness?

gunrunner1911 · Sep 27, 2009

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First off her best escape route wasn't the store. I asked and I highly recommend this tactic. Chances ofan attacker following you into a business is highly unlikely. Her course of action was to watch as she moved to her vehiclejust because someone follows you out of a store doesn't mean they are a threat and the guy wasn't at that point.

My wife being pretty well aware and this being a fairly safe area and the fact that she like to walk it was daylight not 3am. It was appropriate to park where she did. Had it been 3am I would have said what the hell were you thinkingeven shopping.

It may be beneficial but offers no advantage to her at the time to deal with it. I would for other reasons rather not get involved.

The next lady. While I like helping and I'm not one to walk away from people who need help. I also have learned that while you can drag the sheep to the water you can't make them drink. I know what people are like and they for the most part don't take care of themselves and you can't make them. Only once they realise their shortcomings MAYBE will they change. I have tried to break through to people and my head has suffered from hitting it against the wall. If you want to seek out training you will otherwise you'll be a statistic. It's blatantly clear that when you offer an advanced handgun, personal securityor home defense course to some 300 CCW holders and you get 10 people signed up that generally even those who should know better don't care. It's the "I have a gun and a permit and I'm protected" mentality. They never use or train the most powerful defense tool the brain.

calmp9 · Sep 27, 2009

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gunrunner1911 wrote:

Well after a thorough debriefing The first person made it almost a car length away from her prior to the "brandishing" So right around 18-20 feet. The second was following the situation closely and was moving in her direction from behind her which she could see in the rear view mirror which she glanced at just prior to actually pulling the gun and pointing it directly at the guy from the top of the windshield through the windshield. The guy gave her a "look" and moved against her as soon as the weapon was presented he retreated and the other guy behind her left also.

This was a classic tag team and the cleaner cut Samoa looking guy was the distractor and the other was the assailant as it appears now. From the description of their actions they just weren't good enough with the acting of looking for there cars and keys in a near empty parking lot.

To those of you who want to call the police fine go ahead and spend the next 2 hrs giving your story adn statement to them only to have them think a law like 202.350 has been broken take YOU into custody have YOU spend some money to get out and then deal with it. Remember it's always good to talk with the police while your high on an adrenelin rush and your trying to remember the details all while the person whos listening has no interest in whats best for you. Criminals by nature don't call the cops. So the chances of this going anywhere is slim to none and slim just left town.

The cops aren't going to waste 1 minute looking for this guy. Hell i took them nearly ayear to find James Bilah the murderer of Brianna. They were complaining about not being able to afford DNA testing. It's done and over. I've trained more people in how to deal with this stuff than I can count so I've done my good dead.

It isn't a matter of the poice not doing anything if she were to report it. It's essential to give them the best description of the perpetrators and document that she had to draw her firearm. If it takes 2 hours, it takes 2 hours. Whether the police look for the guy or not, it's still important to report it.

timf343 · Sep 27, 2009

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What a divisive question!

Citizen · Sep 27, 2009

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I would tend toreport it at the time of the incident.

The main reason being that goblins have been known to call the cops, portraying themselves as innocent, reporting that "some crazy dude just pointed a gun at me." The rule of thumb is that the first person who calls is the victim.

It goes without saying that you must have observed all the legalities, not brandished for insufficient reason.

I picked up this bit of wisdom in reading about armed self-defense, but I couldn't tell you the source anymore. Maybe Massad Ayoob.

WCrawford · Sep 27, 2009

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I think it is a tough call for anyone who may have had this happen to them. I probably would have called the police to make a report, but I won't knock anyone who doesn't in this type of situation.

Luckily, in Tennessee (unsure how Nevada law are written), the fear you wife expressed about her safety is justification for deadly force (which the display of a firearm is in Tennessee.)

TCA § 39-11-611. Self-defense. —

(2) Notwithstanding § 39-17-1322, a person who is not engaged in unlawful activity and is in a place where the person has a right to be has no duty to retreat before threatening or using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury, if:

(A) The person has a reasonable belief that there is an imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury;
(B) The danger creating the belief of imminent death or serious bodily injury is real, or honestly believed to be real at the time; and
(C) The belief of danger is founded upon reasonable grounds.

Does Nevada have a similar law?

ixtow · Oct 16, 2009

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Now, considering my 'reputation' you may presume I'm picking a fight, but I must ask, how did the 'element of surprise' go for prevention? Why let them get that close, and that far along with their plan?

Might she be convinced to OC?

wrightme · Oct 21, 2009

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WCrawford wrote:

I think it is a tough call for anyone who may have had this happen to them. I probably would have called the police to make a report, but I won't knock anyone who doesn't in this type of situation.

Luckily, in Tennessee (unsure how Nevada law are written), the fear you wife expressed about her safety is justification for deadly force (which the display of a firearm is in Tennessee.)

TCA § 39-11-611. Self-defense. —

(2) Notwithstanding § 39-17-1322, a person who is not engaged in unlawful activity and is in a place where the person has a right to be has no duty to retreat before threatening or using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury, if:

(A) The person has a reasonable belief that there is an imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury;
(B) The danger creating the belief of imminent death or serious bodily injury is real, or honestly believed to be real at the time; and
(C) The belief of danger is founded upon reasonable grounds.

Click to expand...

Does Nevada have a similar law?

NRS 200.120 provides for justifiable homicide inself-defense situations.AB288 would have strengthened statute and provided for civilimmunity, but the Justice cmte chair Bernie Anderson prevented itfrom being heard.

Walmart incident Reno

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