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Thread: Traveling to Pittsburgh

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    Hey everyone I am new to the forum so bare with me. Well as I stated I am traveling to Pittsburgh from Camp Lejeune. I used to live there when I was a boy. And I just got pre-deployment leave for Afghanistan. So I am going up to make a visit, just in case I never make it back. It's been a long time since I was last up there, 13 years to be exact. So I was wondering I saw that there is a open carry law up there. Cool. I don't have a permit for CC ,my state of record is SC. So I don't need to register my weapons either. I am taking my springfield xd with me for security and my M-4 always. So I was wondering what about travel? Do I need permits? Do I need to keep my weapons visible like here in NC? Do I need to lock it in my glove box like when I am back home in SC? What must I do to not scare some rookie cop. Or end up explaining myself to some salty officer? Thanks. And Semper Fi. Yut Yut.

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    You need to have a license to carry, or whatever it's called in its issuing state, to carry a firearm in a vehicle anywhere but from your home to the range/gunsmith/gun store and back. You can open carry on foot without any sort of permit.

    Aside from that, there's no specific regulation on carry.

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    If you do not have any sort of license/permit from South Carolina, or any other state, you cannot transport a firearm in a vehicle in Pennsylvania, thus you can't open carry since you can't get anywhere to open carry without being in a vehicle (which requires a license/permit).

    Why haven't you gotten a license/permit from South Carolina?

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    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    Statkowski wrote:
    If you do not have any sort of license/permit from South Carolina, or any other state, you cannot transport a firearm in a vehicle in Pennsylvania, thus you can't open carry since you can't get anywhere to open carry without being in a vehicle (which requires a license/permit).

    Why haven't you gotten a license/permit from South Carolina?
    Statkowski, I'm sure you know better... you're just being too vague and someone's likely to get the wrong idea.

    I AM NOT A LAWYER.

    You may transport a firearm in a vehicle in Pennsylvania without a permit... it must be unloaded and in a secure wrapper. The link below goes to PAFOA's web site which re-printed the PA firearms laws. You should read that entire law, as well as the other laws regarding firearms in PA that are conveniently linked from that page:

    18 Pa.C.S. § 6106: Firearms not to be carried without a license (subsection (b)Exceptions(8) and (14))

    See the Federal laws referenced in (14) to details on the interstate transportation. Basically, though, you may transport firearms unloaded in the trunk (or if you don't have a trunk, in a locked container in the passenger compartment, from one place to another provided that you may lawfully possess those firearms at both the origination and the destination of your trip.

    So it's your choice: either transport in compliance with federal law, in compliance with state law, or both. Pennsylvania law regarding the transport of an unloaded firearm in a vehicle is more lax than the federal law as it only requires that the firearm be unloaded and in a secure wrapper... I can't legally define a secure wrapper, just use common sense. I'm pretty sure that a plastic or soft gun case (zipper or snap close) is a secure wrapper. A towel or sheet is probably not a secure wrapper; but maybe if you wrap it with said towel or sheet and secure it with duc'k/t' tape... don't take my advice, though... do your own research and make your own decisions about how to transport the firearm while in a vehicle.

    Pennsylvania does issue permits to non-residents (as long as you go to the right county) and it may not take very long. Allegheny county, by the way, is one of the few counties that will not issue permits to non-residents. Being a non-resident, you can use any county you'd like.

    Other than that, open carry away except in prohibited places. opencarry.org and pafoa.org, the latter being more thorough when it comes to PA, will have all of the answers for you regarding where carrying is off-limits as well as the information contained in this post... just be aware that OC'ers are a minority in SW PA, so chances are there will be some negative encounters.

    Let's see if I can answer your specific questions:
    So I was wondering what about travel? Do I need permits? Do I need to keep my weapons visible like here in NC? Do I need to lock it in my glove box like when I am back home in SC? What must I do to not scare some rookie cop. Or end up explaining myself to some salty officer?
    I think I already covered the travel... and permits... In order not to scare a rookie cop, or anyone you don't intend to scare for that matter, DON'T TOUCH IT; don't readjust the holster in public. When you're speaking with a police officer, I recommend placing your strong arm across your abdomen or crossing your arms in front of you. You also don't have to explain yourself if you don't want to do so. You have the right to remain silent at all times.

    I always try to be nice and calm when dealing with people, especially when they are not being nice nor calm; and show them the same respect that you wish to be shown. Belligerence is threatening to some people and tends to only escalate a situation.

    I am from Pittsburgh, though I live in Virginia now. Let us know how your trip to the Burgh goes and please report your OC experiences here.

    Thank you for your service.

    <edited to correct statement about Allegheny county>

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    Regular Member Prophet's Avatar
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    A little off topic but in PA you can carry in your car if you have an LTCF or CCW from ANY state.

    My question is this, if I am from Vermont can I just show my drivers license to satisfy this permit requirement? I mean, by being a resident of Vermont I am within my rights to carry, openly or concealed, a firearm. Plus I have no option to get a Vermont permit since they dont offer one. And yes I know about non-res permits but this is just some food for thought.

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    Federal law permits interstate transport of a handgun if you're permitted to possess it at both origin and destination. No side trips en route are permitted.

    Pennsylvania law permits transport of a handgun between residence and a shooting range without a license/permit. So, once you arrive in Pennsylvania from North Carolina with your handgun, securely stored for transitwhile en route, you're okay. Where you're not okay, without an LTCF, is going somewhere just to open carry.

    Concerning the issuing of LTCFs for out-of-staters, that can only be done if you currently possess a license/permit from your state of residence, or if your state does not issue such licenses/permits. Thus, if you're from North Carolina, the only way you're going to get a Pennsylvania LTCF is if you provide them a copy of your North Carolina license/permit. If you're from Vermont, you don't have to provide a copy since Vermont doesn't issue such things.

    Allegheny County does not make people jump through extra hoops to get an LTCF - that's Philadelphia. The easiest/quickest county to get one for out-of-staters is Centre County.

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    virginiatuck wrote:
    Statkowski wrote:
    If you do not have any sort of license/permit from South Carolina, or any other state, you cannot transport a firearm in a vehicle in Pennsylvania, thus you can't open carry since you can't get anywhere to open carry without being in a vehicle (which requires a license/permit).

    Why haven't you gotten a license/permit from South Carolina?
    Statkowski, I'm sure you know better... you're just being too vague and someone's likely to get the wrong idea.

    I AM NOT A LAWYER.

    You may transport a firearm in a vehicle in Pennsylvania without a permit... it must be unloaded and in a secure wrapper. The link below goes to PAFOA's web site which re-printed the PA firearms laws. You should read that entire law, as well as the other laws regarding firearms in PA that are conveniently linked from that page:

    18 Pa.C.S. § 6106: Firearms not to be carried without a license (subsection (b)Exceptions(8) and (14))

    See the Federal laws referenced in (14) to details on the interstate transportation. Basically, though, you may transport firearms unloaded in the trunk (or if you don't have a trunk, in a locked container in the passenger compartment, from one place to another provided that you may lawfully possess those firearms at both the origination and the destination of your trip.

    So it's your choice: either transport in compliance with federal law, in compliance with state law, or both. Pennsylvania law regarding the transport of an unloaded firearm in a vehicle is more lax than the federal law as it only requires that the firearm be unloaded and in a secure wrapper... I can't legally define a secure wrapper, just use common sense. I'm pretty sure that a plastic or soft gun case (zipper or snap close) is a secure wrapper. A towel or sheet is probably not a secure wrapper; but maybe if you wrap it with said towel or sheet and secure it with duc'k/t' tape... don't take my advice, though... do your own research and make your own decisions about how to transport the firearm while in a vehicle.

    Pennsylvania does issue permits to non-residents (as long as you go to the right county) and it may not take very long. Allegheny county, by the way, is one of the few counties that will not issue permits to non-residents. Being a non-resident, you can use any county you'd like.

    Other than that, open carry away except in prohibited places. opencarry.org and pafoa.org, the latter being more thorough when it comes to PA, will have all of the answers for you regarding where carrying is off-limits as well as the information contained in this post... just be aware that OC'ers are a minority in SW PA, so chances are there will be some negative encounters.

    Let's see if I can answer your specific questions:
    So I was wondering what about travel? Do I need permits? Do I need to keep my weapons visible like here in NC? Do I need to lock it in my glove box like when I am back home in SC? What must I do to not scare some rookie cop. Or end up explaining myself to some salty officer?
    I think I already covered the travel... and permits... In order not to scare a rookie cop, or anyone you don't intend to scare for that matter, DON'T TOUCH IT; don't readjust the holster in public. When you're speaking with a police officer, I recommend placing your strong arm across your abdomen or crossing your arms in front of you. You also don't have to explain yourself if you don't want to do so. You have the right to remain silent at all times.

    I always try to be nice and calm when dealing with people, especially when they are not being nice nor calm; and show them the same respect that you wish to be shown. Belligerence is threatening to some people and tends to only escalate a situation.

    I am from Pittsburgh, though I live in Virginia now. Let us know how your trip to the Burgh goes and please report your OC experiences here.

    Thank you for your service.

    <edited to correct statement about Allegheny county>
    You're neither a lawyer, nor correct. Please stop pushing bad information.

    You can't just transport an unloaded handgun around without a LTCF with the magical addition of a wrapper, that's merely the conditions for taking it from the store to home.

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    Statkowski wrote:
    Where you're not okay, without an LTCF, is going somewhere just to open carry.
    Sad, but true.

    Perhaps there is one other way to lawfully travel by vehicle and have a firearm to OC at the destination. Before entering any vehicle, surrender your firearm to the control of a friend who is licensed that will be traveling to the same destination. Upon arriving at the destination, your friend can transfer control of the firearm back to you after you are outside of the vehicle.

    Again, I'm not a lawyer... just a thinker. Don't take my words as sound, legal advice. My ideas are purely for academic purposes and to provoke thought and debate.


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    Il_Duce wrote:
    You're neither a lawyer, nor correct. Please stop pushing bad information.

    You can't just transport an unloaded handgun around without a LTCF with the magical addition of a wrapper, that's merely the conditions for taking it from the store to home.
    Dude, he's also traveling to Pennsylvania from another state. The transport requirements that I provided apply while he is doing so, if he is doing so by vehicle.

    I did not pass bad information except the part which I've already corrected regarding Allegheny county. What you call "pushing bad information" is merely what I did not state, about reasons acceptable to transport a firearm in a vehicle. There's a whole list of reasons. I said in my original reply to this post: "You should read that entire law, as well as the other laws regarding firearms in PA that are conveniently linked from that page:"

    I did provide a link to the text of the law and encouraged him to read the entire thing for himself.

    Have a nice day, Il Duce.


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    virginiatuck wrote:
    Il_Duce wrote:
    You're neither a lawyer, nor correct. Please stop pushing bad information.

    You can't just transport an unloaded handgun around without a LTCF with the magical addition of a wrapper, that's merely the conditions for taking it from the store to home.
    Dude, he's also traveling to Pennsylvania from another state. The transport requirements that I provided apply while he is doing so, if he is doing so by vehicle.

    I did not pass bad information except the part which I've already corrected regarding Allegheny county. What you call "pushing bad information" is merely what I did not state, about reasons acceptable to transport a firearm in a vehicle. There's a whole list of reasons. I said in my original reply to this post: "You should read that entire law, as well as the other laws regarding firearms in PA that are conveniently linked from that page:"

    I did provide a link to the text of the law and encouraged him to read the entire thing for himself.

    Have a nice day, Il Duce.
    Please stay in Virginia. And its forum.

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    Statkowski wrote:
    If you do not have any sort of license/permit from South Carolina, or any other state, you cannot transport a firearm in a vehicle in Pennsylvania, thus you can't open carry since you can't get anywhere to open carry without being in a vehicle (which requires a license/permit).

    Why haven't you gotten a license/permit from South Carolina?
    Now if you mean license as a drivers license then yes I have one. If you mean a "special" or so called "general" gun or weapon's license/permit that I am required to have from my state of origin in order to posses a firearm then no. South Carolina does not hand out that so called license's or premit, to travel, carry (openly)or other wise. The only SC license or permit for weapons is concealed carry license/permit. In fact SC does not require one to register one's own purchased firearms. So please clear up this "license" situation. Thank You.

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    You need a license to carry from any state to have a firearm in your vehicle.

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    Tired_Marine wrote:
    Hey everyone I am new to the forum so bare with me. Well as I stated I am traveling to Pittsburgh from Camp Lejeune. I used to live there when I was a boy. And I just got pre-deployment leave for Afghanistan. So I am going up to make a visit, just in case I never make it back. It's been a long time since I was last up there, 13 years to be exact. So I was wondering I saw that there is a open carry law up there. Cool. I don't have a permit for CC ,my state of record is SC. So I don't need to register my weapons either. I am taking my springfield xd with me for security and my M-4 always. So I was wondering what about travel? Do I need permits? Do I need to keep my weapons visible like here in NC? Do I need to lock it in my glove box like when I am back home in SC? What must I do to not scare some rookie cop. Or end up explaining myself to some salty officer? Thanks. And Semper Fi. Yut Yut.
    You may find this helpful

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum61/3424.html

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    Il_Duce wrote:
    You need a license to carry from any state to have a firearm in your vehicle.
    Again Not in SC. Open carry not allowed. Concealed carry allowed with permits. The only permit is a CC permit, hence no LTCF is issued to open carry in SC. LTCF issue needs to be cleared up or made "dummy" proof. Because I understand that I need one in PA when visiting or to open carry or carry in general but I am here for only 4 days. So with that where do I go to file?

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    Pa. Patriot wrote: Man I wish SC and NC had this!!! Dummy proof indeed!!

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    By the way yes I do live in NC, my record of origin is SC, due to the fact that I am active duty military. So therefore constitutes as a duty station rather than a place of "permanent" or "temporary" residence. SO again I am not required to abide by NC state firearms laws. Execpt when traceling in NC state which is for the weapon to be displayed visibly. I have no intention to carry concealed either. So I am not required to have a concealed carry license. If I go to a place I take it off and place it securely inside my car. Same goes while I am in SC. With the execption to a range or gun shop. Also to NC does have a open carry law. I haven't really looked into it, because I am constantly busy and I know the area well. It's been a long time since I've been to the burgh and from the last time I remember it's a pretty unsecure place. Especially for a Marine and hs prego wife. You must see my situation. But I am trying to abide by the law as much as possible and respect it. I am not a rule breaker by any means. However my family comes first above and beyond the call to any law period. Just understand to whoever reads this.

    HOR:SC

    DS:NC

    No LTCF required in SC. No Open Carry. CC "will issue"

    NC LTCF required.

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    Tired_Marine wrote:
    Il_Duce wrote:
    You need a license to carry from any state to have a firearm in your vehicle.
    Again Not in SC. Open carry not allowed. Concealed carry allowed with permits. The only permit is a CC permit, hence no LTCF is issued to open carry in SC. LTCF issue needs to be cleared up or made "dummy" proof. Because I understand that I need one in PA when visiting or to open carry or carry in general but I am here for only 4 days. So with that where do I go to file?
    Again, I was talking about PA because you're asking about PA.


    And remember, if you decide to break the law and get caught, it screws US over, it screws YOUR FAMILY over, and it screws YOU over. Think you'll be able to provide for your wife once you've gotten a dishonorable discharge for a weapons-related arrest?

    If you're coming to our state, and my hometown, follow our laws, or don't come. Period.

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    Now if you mean license as a drivers license then yes I have one. If you mean a "special" or so called "general" gun or weapon's license/permit that I am required to have from my state of origin in order to posses a firearm then no. South Carolina does not hand out that so called license's or premit, to travel, carry (openly)or other wise. The only SC license or permit for weapons is concealed carry license/permit. In fact SC does not require one to register one's own purchased firearms. So please clear up this "license" situation. Thank You.
    In order to carry/transport a firearm in a vehicle within Pennsylvania (from one Pennsylvania location to another Pennsylvania location), not going to/from a firing range or firearms dealer, you need either a Pennsylvania License to Carry Firearms or some sort of carry license/permit from another state.

    Doesn't matter what the rules of carry are in North Carolina (your current residence whether you want to admit it or not) or South Carolina (your home of record and where you're still technically also a resident); it's irrelevent to the issue at hand. Likewise, what type of license/permit either North or South Carolina issues (and you should be able to get one from each since you're a resident of each); it's irrelevent to the issue at hand.

    Now, will you be able to OC in Pittsburgh from your temporary Pennsylvania residence without any license/permit? Yes, as long as it's within walking distance of your temporary Pennsylvania residence, and you don't conceal the firearm at all. Will you be able to use a vehicle (car, trolley, bus, dirigible, whatever) to get to a location to OC? Not without a Pa. LTCF or a firearms license/permit from another state.

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    Thank you. You reallycleared that up for me (sorry dumb grunt).Now, do you know where about's (I don't know how familiar you are with the area) I can pck up a PALTCF?

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    Actually you should just go down and apply for your CCW and another out of state since in prob most states if not all surrounding states of your home of record, your current military training surfices as the requirement to get a CCW or whatever theses states wanna call it. Also you can have a gun shipped to a Federal Post Office out of country if you want I am pretty sure. I saw something about it on gun broker.
    If Pa dosent count ur mil service for a LTCF then apply for Ohios I am 100% that you can get one from here.

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    PA doesn't require training of any kind. But he has to have a license in his home state to get a PA license.

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    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    Tired_Marine wrote:
    Thank you. You reallycleared that up for me (sorry dumb grunt).Now, do you know where about's (I don't know how familiar you are with the area) I can pck up a PALTCF?
    How much time do you have?

    PA LTCF can take up to 45 days.

    SC and NC concealed handgun permits (CHP) can each take up to 90 days.


    In lieu of the firearm, perhaps you would want to carry some non-firearm weapon that you could lawfully possess, even in a vehicle. There aren't many, but maybe you could find something within the law: (see Definitions below for list of offensive weapons that are prohibited).


    18 Pa.C.S.A. § 908

    (a) Offense defined.--A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if, except as authorized by law, he makes repairs, sells, or otherwise deals in, uses, or
    possesses any offensive weapon.


    (b) Exceptions.--

    (1) It is a defense under this section for the defendant to prove by a preponderance of evidence that he possessed or dealt with the weapon solely as a curio
    or in a dramatic performance, or that, with the exception of a bomb, grenade or incendiary device, he complied with the National Firearms Act (26 U.S.C. § 5801 et
    seq.), or that he possessed it briefly in consequence of having found it or taken it from an aggressor, or under circumstances similarly negativing any intent or
    likelihood that the weapon would be used unlawfully.

    (2) This section does not apply to police forensic firearms experts or police forensic firearms laboratories. Also exempt from this section are forensic
    firearms experts or forensic firearms laboratories operating in the ordinary course of business and engaged in lawful operation who notify in writing, on an annual
    basis, the chief or head of any police force or police department of a city, and, elsewhere, the sheriff of a county in which they are located, of the possession, type
    and use of offensive weapons.

    (3) This section shall not apply to any person who makes, repairs, sells or otherwise deals in, uses or possesses any firearm for purposes not prohibited by
    the laws of this Commonwealth.


    (c) Definitions.--As used in this section, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings given to them in this subsection:


    "Firearm." Any weapon which is designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of any such
    weapon.


    "Offensive weapons." Any bomb, grenade, machine gun, sawed-off shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches, firearm specially made or specially adapted for concealment
    or silent discharge, any blackjack, sandbag, metal knuckles, dagger, knife, razor or cutting instrument, the blade of which is exposed in an automatic way by switch,
    push-button, spring mechanism, or otherwise, any stun gun, stun baton, taser or other electronic or electric weapon or other implement for the infliction of serious
    bodily injury which serves no common lawful purpose.


    (d) Exemptions.--The use and possession of blackjacks by the following persons in the course of their duties are exempt from this section:

    (1) Police officers, as defined by and who meet the requirements of the act of June 18, 1974 (P.L. 359, No. 120), referred to as the Municipal Police Education
    and Training Law. [FN1]

    (2) Police officers of first class cities who have successfully completed training which is substantially equivalent to the program under the Municipal Police
    Education and Training Law.

    (3) Pennsylvania State Police officers.

    (4) Sheriffs and deputy sheriffs of the various counties who have satisfactorily met the requirements of the Municipal Police Education and Training Law.

    (5) Police officers employed by the Commonwealth who have satisfactorily met the requirements of the Municipal Police Education and Training Law.

    (6) Deputy sheriffs with adequate training as determined by the Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency.

    (7) Liquor Control Board agents who have satisfactorily met the requirements of the Municipal Police Education and Training Law.


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