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Thread: Transporting Hand Gun on Motorcycle

  1. #1
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    I'm a 22-year-old student living in Gainesville, FL. I have applied for my concealed permit but I'm still waiting to receive it. I used to carry a handgun in the glove compartment of my car. I know this is legal (read this link) because you can transport a handgun as long as you are 21 and it is contained in some sort of way (box with lid, glove compartment, snapped holster, zipped bag, etc).

    I recently bought a motorcycle that has become my primary mode of transportation. The motorcycle has no compartment on it (no saddle bags or compartment under the seat). Is there any way to legally transport via my motorcycle? I typically wear a backpack as I ride, but I'm worried that carrying a handgun in it may be interpreted as having a concealed weapon.

    A couple points of clarification:
    1)I would never transport my weapon to campus. I used to take it out of my glove compartment before going to campus.

    2)I understand that once I get off the motorcycle, having a gun in my backpack is definitely a concealed weapon. For this reason, I would only take it to private residences or have it with me when I go cruising, with no destination other than home.

    Anyone know of any hard statutes on this? You're welcome to speculate, but speculation doesn't keep me from getting arrested if you're wrong. I'm really looking for a sure, legal answer.

    Whatever the case, it becomes a null point once I get my permit in 3-5 years (at least, that's what it feels like).

    Thanks for your time.

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    OMG.... no lie!

    My roommate just came in with the mail. My permit is in!

    I'd still like to see the question answered though.

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    my guess is you would be fine with it in your backpack. The reason I say this is because if you were driving in your car, you could have the gun in a backpack and even be wearing it, if you so desired. W/O a permit and while traveling by private conveyance , it just hast to be securely encased. If its in a zippered bag (backpack), it meets this requirement. As you pointed out though, when not on the bike, you would not longer be considered traveling by private conveyance and having the weapon in the backpack would be illegal.

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    There was a florida case where the man was carrying a weapon ion a zippered fanny pack, and thought that would allow him to carry, he was wrong and lost the case.



    The weapon, in order to trasnpport it without a concealed weapons permit, has to be inaccessable for immideate use. In other words, you can carry it zippered in a case in a backpack, and that is good, but if you put it in a zippered case on your hip, and it is loaded, then it is concealed without a permit. I know it's crazy, but that is how they ruled.

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    I'm still questioning the legality of the "No Guns at School" clauses.

    It's quite obvious that Texas is changing their position on this issue. They've now started to let Teachers CCW in School to help prevent/help resolve anymore school shootings.

    Florida recently upheld the right to keep your gun in your car at work.

    I don't see why a CCW permitted individual would be restricted for protecting themselves just because they are on a campus...if some CCW holders had been at Columbine or the any of the recent college campus shootings, the bad guys might have been resolved a bit quicker with less harm done to innocents.

    Florida's CCW course is Intensive and VERY well thought out. CCW licensees are directly responsible for helping lower Florida's crime rate, along with the "10-20-LIFE" & "Stand Your Ground" laws.

    It will only be a matter of time before a legal challenge excepting CCW licensees to this silly policy is taken up.

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    Oh, to answer the question, use the Three-Step Rule.

    Gun must be in case/holstered while inside the backpack.

    Gun must be UNLOADED & magazine(s) stored elsewhere...like in your pantspocket or a separate pocket of the backpack.

    In this manner, you have to take at least three steps for it to be ready to fire. This meets Florida's Transport requirements for non-CCW licensees.



    Given the requirements for the CCW are mostly background oriented...why not go ahead and take the class & get the permit?? It's never taken less time than now




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    WHERE DOES THIS THREE STEP CRAP COME FROM????????

    Assume no CCW. The gun can be as ready to go as you want it to be. It cannot be on you or immediately around you, think drivers seat. It can be pretty much anywhere else in the car, as long as you have to lift a lid, undo a zipper, unsnap a holster, open a console or a glove box door. Fla Stat. 790.25

    I am not aware of any "Transport" requirement in FL. If you are aware of such a statute please let me know.

    The operative part of the private conveyance statute is IN a private conveyance. quote from the court below about the case Gideon mentioned.

    Our holding in Gemmill is no less applicable where a defendant is riding a motorcycle. In this regard, we further note that the private conveyance exception of section 790.25(5), by its express terms, applies only to the carrying of a concealed weapon “within the interior of a private conveyance.” We interpret this language to require a person carrying a concealed weapon without a permit, while riding a motorcycle, to keep the concealed weapon securely encased and in an interior compartment of the motorcycle. Doughty v. State, 979 So.2d 1048
    Fla.App. 4 Dist.,2008

    I am not sure that even in a saddlebag would be enough on a motorcycle. The issue a court would have to decide is if that qualifies as not on the person, securely encased would not be problem.

    THIS POST IS FOR DISCUSSION OF LEGAL ISSUES ONLY. NO ATTORNEY CLIENT RELATIONSHIP IS INTENDED OR IMPLIED. CONSULT AN ATTORNEY FOR SPECIFIC ADVICE ON YOUR SITUATION.

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    I have been told personally by FHP that it is indeed legal to carry my loaded firearm in the TourPak or the Saddlebags of my Harley. He stated to me that because I had to stop the bike and dismount before being able to retrieve my weapon I was well within my rights to do so.

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    THERE IS NO 3 STEP RULE, A myth that some want you to believe

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    It mostly comes from LEO's on the job...it's what THEY want to see when they pull someone over for a ticketable offense, if they see it at all.

    CCW does solve the whole issue

    Pre-CCW, I went with the rule as I was told by many LEO's & Gun Store Guru's. Never had an issue. Cops were happy, I was happy. Much to be said for a lockedgun case with an unloadedweapon within...most cops see the lock & just ask if it's loaded or not...which it ain't.





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    Big Shrek wrote:
    It mostly comes from LEO's on the job...it's what THEY want to see when they pull someone over for a ticketable offense, if they see it at all.

    CCW does solve the whole issue

    Pre-CCW, I went with the rule as I was told by many LEO's & Gun Store Guru's. Never had an issue. Cops were happy, I was happy. Much to be said for a lockedgun case with an unloadedweapon within...most cops see the lock & just ask if it's loaded or not...which it ain't.


    The three step rule is a myth. LAW ENFORCEMENT officers are required to know and follow the LAW and not the myths.

    The cops were happy and you were happy and technically unarmed. You had the RIGHT to be armed as long as that firearm was securely encased.

    Be happy you never had the need for you firearm and that you didn't have to find the key, unlock the glove box, grab the gun, find the magazine and put the magazine into the gun and chamber a round while some bad guy is standing at your window patiently waiting for you to get in the fight.


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    Three step law is a myth... no where in the 790 section is it stated a person needs 3 steps...

    The "Securely Encased" statue is weak in its holding in a court room... even as broad as the statue is to allowed to be construed to uphold your second amendment right it is not...

    A motorcycle is not considered a private conveyance because it does not have an "interior" now as for the saddle bag it may or may not fly depending on the court and judges and how willing the state is to press the issue...

    my cases decision in the 4th district of appeals has even foiled the securely encased within a private conveyance... from what they say even if you are in a car and the firearm is securely encased and it is within range of being readily accessable you are guilty of carrying a concealed firearm...

    the way the law is written it is a catch 22 as one judge wrote... so the best bet is get the permit... wish i had gotten mine; but then again this debate wouldnt be happening right now if i didnt...

    I think that the law is there but just not upheld...

    the reason still stands in my book; There is a definition of "concealed weapon" and a definition for "securely encased" there for it is one or the other and can not be both..!

    Signed
    Doughty v. State

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    DANNiE wrote:
    Three step law is a myth... no where in the 790 section is it stated a person needs 3 steps...

    The "Securely Encased" statue is weak in its holding in a court room... even as broad as the statue is to allowed to be construed to uphold your second amendment right it is not...

    A motorcycle is not considered a private conveyance because it does not have an "interior" now as for the saddle bag it may or may not fly depending on the court and judges and how willing the state is to press the issue...

    my cases decision in the 4th district of appeals has even foiled the securely encased within a private conveyance... from what they say even if you are in a car and the firearm is securely encased and it is within range of being readily accessable you are guilty of carrying a concealed firearm...

    the way the law is written it is a catch 22 as one judge wrote... so the best bet is get the permit... wish i had gotten mine; but then again this debate wouldnt be happening right now if i didnt...

    I think that the law is there but just not upheld...

    the reason still stands in my book; There is a definition of "concealed weapon" and a definition for "securely encased" there for it is one or the other and can not be both..!

    Signed
    Doughty v. State
    Carrying on your person - wherever - without benefit of a CWFL is unlawful, that part of Florida's statutes is very clear.


    If this is truly your case and the facts are as presented, you sir are an idiot and lucky to be alive.
    "I have a gun, I’ll kill you." He then lifted his shirt, reached into a leather pack that was around his waist, and grabbed what the officers believed was a weapon.

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    Not what happened at all...

    I was sitting in traffic on my motorcycle when the car in front of me begins to reverse; so i honk my horn...

    The front passenger leans out the front window and says F-U we'll run you over and kill you if we want your nothing but garbage etc. at this point im still on my bike pushing it backward because they have now backed their car up to my front tire...

    after hes done yelling I give him the middle finger; he says oh f-us..!? and goes back into the car i look back to make sure that i dont back my bike into the car behind me as i look forward 3 italian looking goons jump out of the car all with 45s in my face say f us huh m-f-er so i jmped off the bike so fast it stood up on its own and began to run as i got to the side walk they say frezze police so i stop and put my hands in the air... they take me down and cuff me ask me if i have any drugs or weapons on me and i tell them i have my firearm holster in a zipper pack on my side...

    they remove my gun from the pouch a local FHP is flagged down...

    now the guys have badges out on thier belts; before they didnt turns out the 2 badges i could see were NYPD so im like yall are crazy now the FHP is there next to me trooper menner and he has my arm im like you guy jump out on me for no reason and now im going to jail cause you guys dont even have jurisdiciton as i said that the other 3rd guy slams a badge into the face mask of my helmet breaking the visor saying you see that you see that US Marshall now take him...

    so now a Local PD shows up and I go to jail... If you pull the police report the word or phrase "kill" is not mentioned one time... the only thing there is that i said I have a gun and i only said that after they jumped out on me and cuffed and searched me...

    the phrase "i have a gun ill kill you" comes up months later in a written testamony mailed to the state attorneys office... and then in another depo the other NYPD says something different...

    It was a plain out illegal search; but what i got was a bad Public Defender... She knew nothing... she was a plea maker... actually my first assigned PD was great the second was horriable...

    as for the clarification of the weapon being on a person traveling by private conveyance... its not there... nothing there says a person who is carrying a securely encased firearm cant have it on or near them... it is NOT clear... and it is to be construed in favor of the right to bear arms...

    bottom line is there is a difference between a "concealed weapon" and a "securely encased" weapon... matter of fact it has its on clear exception...

    790.25
    (l)A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased or in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the person's manual possession;

    now "manual possesion" is not defined but one would think it is defined on its natural meaning it is manually available to one to use for immediate use which is very much simalar to the defintion of "concealed weapon" as defined in the statue again I argue a person carring a "securely encased" firearm per this "exception" is within the lawful limits... manual possesion is one who carrys a weapon in thier pocket or waist band with it ready to use with a hand and a single manual action... securely encased takes this all away...

    i have the case law at home of a guy on a motorcycle who had a gun in his motorcycle jacket pocket he argued that his pocket had a zipper on it so it counted as securely encased and the appelet court found it wasnt however a judge writes in his opinion that had it been "securely encased" he would have fallen within the exception...

    bottom line had i had a good PD or did the whole case Pro Se i would have motioned to surpress the verbal content and even proved that it was a made up story i mean how does a person tell another person that they were going to kill them and forget to tell the arresting officer at the time of arrest..? i mean these cops from NY are supposed to professionals how do they just forget that detail on arrest..? and remember to make it up later..?

    I currently have a post conviciton relief motion going and if any GOOD lawyers want to step up the task of making a wrong situation right then let me know... the 790 section of law has been complex for over 20 years...

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    Why would the 4th DCA acknowledge hearsay that was NOT in the Original A.A..?

    Just Because I suppose..?
    I also have 2 conflicting depositions; which mind you as I was looking at the file I noticed that the state attorney canceled a scheduled depo for Off. Haire that was set by my 1st PD T.Seigal, a defense motion; Seigal was pushing for depos & a speedy trial (she was by far more on the ball) & then they switched me to E.Viet (who her & the SA flirt in court all day) & basically from there on out I was on my own; depos were rescheduled for Haire but then canceled by her & the SA...
    I had to force Viet to do everything even give her case law it was bad; not sure how long she had been a lawyer for but when the judge ordered her to try my motion to stay sentence I wrote, she wanted me to drop it & I told her no and to just say the motion speaks for itself... She told me if the judge grants my motion I should go to law school...
    uh what did she go to law school for then..?
    Any real Lawyers on this forum..?
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    And you brought this thread back alive after almost 6 years why?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DANNiE View Post
    Just Because I suppose..?
    I also have 2 conflicting depositions; which mind you as I was looking at the file I noticed that the state attorney canceled a scheduled depo for Off. Haire that was set by my 1st PD T.Seigal, a defense motion; Seigal was pushing for depos & a speedy trial (she was by far more on the ball) & then they switched me to E.Viet (who her & the SA flirt in court all day) & basically from there on out I was on my own; depos were rescheduled for Haire but then canceled by her & the SA...
    I had to force Viet to do everything even give her case law it was bad; not sure how long she had been a lawyer for but when the judge ordered her to try my motion to stay sentence I wrote, she wanted me to drop it & I told her no and to just say the motion speaks for itself... She told me if the judge grants my motion I should go to law school...
    uh what did she go to law school for then..?
    Any real Lawyers on this forum..?
    Did you just get out of jail or something? I see you've been busy the past couple days posting this stuff on various sites.



    Perhaps next time you commit aggravated assault on 3 LEO's you should plan a little in advance and make sure you have enough money to hire a real lawyer.

    They state went very easy on you.

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    @notalawyer; you hate me so much yet you would make the best defense lawyer for me in this case...
    Why be a ****** & hate than help right the wrong or are you yourself an undercover State Att..? LoL
    I already posted the truth not only here but in documents in the record...
    Here I present the A.A. which never uses or mentions the word(s) "I will 'kill' you" the 4th DCA clearly referenced those words -which mind you is hearsay- as a pivot in making a decision in my case...
    I never did anything wrong except honk my horn & give the middle finger; which the Washington Supreme Court has found is NOT A CRIME Cali did too in the 80s...

    Moreover its clear to me you only know whats on the internet & have passed a judgment & thats fine I do not care you are not a God -although your job might make you feel like one- and I know the truth of what happened that day; I know who I am & have a clear conscious in the matter & have no need to lie... I have the inconsistencies; are you mad that I am revealing them & damaging the States case law because of an illegal search & seizure, a Pub.Def. switch-a-roo of incompetence, and state testimony riddled w/ inconsistencies & reasonable doubt...

    If you think I am a bad wanna be lawyer then how Viet got a job is beyond me; please at any time rather hate join the fight for change; my case isnt some old stale case its real; I technically haven't exhausted all the levels of appeal; so why hate than participate..? Cause you think I am some cop stalking killer..? Your an idiot then; I know several cops & ex cops who are good friends of mine... Oddly you get my view on the law carrying securely encased is a valid exception; I did read someone mentioning how one statue clears up the other but actually that is not the case w/ exception 790.25(3)L...
    When you further read it:
    A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased <b>or in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the persons manual possession</b>

    When you break this down OR is the key word; it goes to define how one is to carry a "securely encased" firearm IN A PUBLIC CONVEYANCE..! Woah..! PUBLIC..?! Yes public and there is where it clarifies how to carry securely encased AND NOT IN THE PERSONS "MANUAL" POSSESSION...
    Now some say section 5 the private conveyance act further defines it & adds that it is to be LIBERALLY CONSTRUED in favor of the 2nd Amendment... But its clear in exception "l" that when in private conveyance its non-specific however very clear not to include "manual possession" which in fact section 5 does state as well and have gone over and you always agree...
    Some reason your mad; I never posted about my case on the internet or made it a chapter of a book; OTHERS HAVE..!
    I only want the truth out there too; hence why I have always maintained my innocences...
    Last edited by DANNiE; 08-05-2015 at 11:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DANNiE View Post
    @notalawyer; you hate me so much yet you would make the best defense lawyer for me in this case...
    Why be a ****** & hate than help right the wrong or are you yourself an undercover State Att..? LoL
    I already posted the truth not only here but in documents in the record...
    Here I present the A.A. which never uses or mentions the word(s) "I will 'kill' you" the 4th DCA clearly referenced those words -which mind you is hearsay- as a pivot in making a decision in my case...
    I never did anything wrong except honk my horn & give the middle finger; which the Washington Supreme Court has found is NOT A CRIME Cali did too in the 80s...

    Moreover its clear to me you only know whats on the internet & have passed a judgment & thats fine I do not care you are not a God -although your job might make you feel like one- and I know the truth of what happened that day; I know who I am & have a clear conscious in the matter & have no need to lie... I have the inconsistencies; are you mad that I am revealing them & damaging the States case law because of an illegal search & seizure, a Pub.Def. switch-a-roo of incompetence, and state testimony riddled w/ inconsistencies & reasonable doubt...

    If you think I am a bad wanna be lawyer then how Viet got a job is beyond me; please at any time rather hate join the fight for change; my case isnt some old stale case its real; I technically haven't exhausted all the levels of appeal; so why hate than participate..? Cause you think I am some cop stalking killer..? Your an idiot then; I know several cops & ex cops who are good friends of mine... Oddly you get my view on the law carrying securely encased is a valid exception; I did read someone mentioning how one statue clears up the other but actually that is not the case w/ exception 790.25(3)L...
    When you further read it:
    A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased <b>or in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the persons manual possession</b>

    When you break this down OR is the key word; it goes to define how one is to carry a "securely encased" firearm IN A PUBLIC CONVEYANCE..! Woah..! PUBLIC..?! Yes public and there is where it clarifies how to carry securely encased AND NOT IN THE PERSONS "MANUAL" POSSESSION...
    Now some say section 5 the private conveyance act further defines it & adds that it is to be LIBERALLY CONSTRUED in favor of the 2nd Amendment... But its clear in exception "l" that when in private conveyance its non-specific however very clear not to include "manual possession" which in fact section 5 does state as well and have gone over and you always agree...
    Some reason your mad; I never posted about my case on the internet or made it a chapter of a book; OTHERS HAVE..!
    I only want the truth out there too; hence why I have always maintained my innocences...
    First off I don't hate you. I don't know you, so how could I possibly hate you?

    Second, I've already gone on record explaining why, IMO, the 4th DCA got the law wrong. But that is mostly the fault of the legislature, as it usually is. BUT, I can somewhat see the 'logic' of the court ruling that 790.25(5) 'detailing' 790.25(3(l). 790.25(5) being the most recent statement by the legislature on that point - and canons of statutory construction urge the courts to presume the latest intent by the legislature to 'supersede' earlier ones.

    Your briefs suck! They look to be written by a middle-schooler that read a bunch of court cases on the internet without the experience to actual understand what they say. The result being disjointed, illogical, pile of big legal words jumbled into a meaningless heap.

    Instead of focusing on the law, you chose to attack the LEO. Without witnesses, this is almost always a losing battle. You included disputed facts in your undisputed facts section. You listed some half-hearted attempt to justify your actions stating you were going to Markum Park. But you failed to follow through with that, so it appears to the court you were just throwing **** on the wall to see what sticks.

    The problem we have with the courts is that that go to extreme lengths to analyze statutes in technical detail, instead of the clear language that everyday people use. They do not understand firearms or their use, except, generally, by criminals. This results in convoluted decision like the 4th DCA made. Your arguments (at least some of them) should have appealed to their cognitive processes.

    I'm not an attorney (merely an interpreter of statutes, case law, and 2nd and 4th amendment litigation) so I can't help you other than to suggest you (should have) hire(d) a real firearms attorney. That and carry a video camera/audio recorder with you that uploads automatically to the could - this is a very effective way in assuring the actual facts get preserved. Your word against three LEOs was never going to fly and you should have understood that.

    Also, you are deluding yourself (again) if you think you have any chance with another appeal. The only avenue would be to the US Supreme Court, and there is no way they would take this case.


    ETA: What did you actually plead too? What was the sentence?

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    I tried to stick to the technical legalities; on appeal to FL.SC but it was clear the 4th DCA was influenced by hearsay... I did have witness the FHP Trooper Menner; who was 1st on scene... It was clear the courts allowed in false content as reasoning; I know what I wrote because I had to inject (like the State had) my side of the story into the record some how...
    And its there; lawyers inject testimony & evidence this way all the time "into the record" say what you want but the original judge over the case thought other wise.... anyways the FL.SC turned my case down not because i dont have a valid appeal but because of the filing & didn't hear based on lack of jurisdiction; no mention of with or without prejudice so I could refile... according to the FSC the destroyed the file about this time last year in 2014...
    I took a plea; (because I knew my PD was trash & would have lost at trial) the PD said I was facing 5 years if I lost at trial; but I know she was wrong there too I'm no felon that was the first time I ever got a felony; my points didn't equal prison time but I wasn't going to argue w/ a nit wit PD who didn't even know what a stay of sentence motion is... I told the PD I wanted to retain my rights & to appeal; she gave me a crazy look and said she never heard of that before but said shed ask the judge so she went side bar & when she told the judge I would take the plea if I could retain my rights & the judge flinched back & looked at her baffled as if how does she know this..? he looks at me looks at her and says ok ill give it to him lets go on record... After I decided I simply do not have all the resources or backing to keep figuring out how to fight for truth & to get someone who understands the points and the law as I understood it as a laymen...
    Honestly I am still willing to fight; because I know I am innocent, I know I can be an ******* & I admit do flicking them off with a middle finger, but as you said my word vs 3 leos and a crabshot PD I was screwed... But maybe not entirely; if any is seriously interested in helping PM me...

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    All I can say is wow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DANNiE View Post
    I tried to stick to the technical legalities; on appeal to FL.SC but it was clear the 4th DCA was influenced by hearsay... I did have witness the FHP Trooper Menner; who was 1st on scene... It was clear the courts allowed in false content as reasoning; I know what I wrote because I had to inject (like the State had) my side of the story into the record some how...
    And its there; lawyers inject testimony & evidence this way all the time "into the record" say what you want but the original judge over the case thought other wise.... anyways the FL.SC turned my case down not because i dont have a valid appeal but because of the filing & didn't hear based on lack of jurisdiction; no mention of with or without prejudice so I could refile... according to the FSC the destroyed the file about this time last year in 2014...
    I took a plea; (because I knew my PD was trash & would have lost at trial) the PD said I was facing 5 years if I lost at trial; but I know she was wrong there too I'm no felon that was the first time I ever got a felony; my points didn't equal prison time but I wasn't going to argue w/ a nit wit PD who didn't even know what a stay of sentence motion is... I told the PD I wanted to retain my rights & to appeal; she gave me a crazy look and said she never heard of that before but said shed ask the judge so she went side bar & when she told the judge I would take the plea if I could retain my rights & the judge flinched back & looked at her baffled as if how does she know this..? he looks at me looks at her and says ok ill give it to him lets go on record... After I decided I simply do not have all the resources or backing to keep figuring out how to fight for truth & to get someone who understands the points and the law as I understood it as a laymen...
    Honestly I am still willing to fight; because I know I am innocent, I know I can be an ******* & I admit do flicking them off with a middle finger, but as you said my word vs 3 leos and a crabshot PD I was screwed... But maybe not entirely; if any is seriously interested in helping PM me...
    I guess you missed this sentence in the ruling:
    No motion for rehearing will be entertained by the Court.
    Last edited by notalawyer; 08-08-2015 at 02:39 PM.

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