• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Do you have to tell cop if you have a gun?

kwikrnu

Banned
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
1,956
Location
Brentwood, Tennessee
imported post

I know the law says if asked I "shall display the permit on demand of a law enforcement officer." TCA 39-17-1351(n)(1)

I haven't seen where I have to say if I have a handgun.

If a cop asks if I have a gun do I have to answer him?
 

Task Force 16

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
2,615
Location
Lobelville, Tennessee, USA
imported post

If you're on foot and OC, LEO isn't going to have to ask if you are armed. Altough they may ask if you have a HCP. So far, I haven't had a LEO ask to see my HCP.

If you're pulled over in a traffic stop, no, you don't have to tell the officer that you are armed, but if you have been issued a HCP he'll find out when he runs your DL. Might as well letthem know right off so there's no surprises.
 

suntzu

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Messages
1,230
Location
The south land
imported post

Task Force 16 wrote:
If you're on foot and OC, LEO isn't going to have to ask if you are armed. Altough they may ask if you have a HCP. So far, I haven't had a LEO ask to see my HCP.

If you're pulled over in a traffic stop, no, you don't have to tell the officer that you are armed, but if you have been issued a HCP he'll find out when he runs your DL. Might as well letthem know right off so there's no surprises.
Just because you have a permit, does not mean you have a gun.

even if you have a gun in your vehicle, you are under absolutely no obligation to tell them about it. Even if they ask you point blank if you have a gun, you are not obligated to tell them--you can simply say refuse to answer it. If you do--also refuse to consent to any search if they ask for it. You can have a gun in your car without a permit as long as it is unloaded and the ammunition is in another area of the car that is inaccessible to you at the time. At least that is how I understand things in this state.

if they get you out of your car--make sure all of your doors are locked, and refuse to voluntarily give them the keys.
 

mrbsox

New member
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
2
Location
Gallatin, Tennessee, USA
imported post

suntzu wrote:
Task Force 16 wrote:
If you're on foot and OC, LEO isn't going to have to ask if you are armed. Altough they may ask if you have a HCP. So far, I haven't had a LEO ask to see my HCP.

If you're pulled over in a traffic stop, no, you don't have to tell the officer that you are armed, but if you have been issued a HCP he'll find out when he runs your DL. Might as well letthem know right off so there's no surprises.
Just because you have a permit, does not mean you have a gun.

even if you have a gun in your vehicle, you are under absolutely no obligation to tell them about it. Even if they ask you point blank if you have a gun, you are not obligated to tell them--you can simply say refuse to answer it. If you do--also refuse to consent to any search if they ask for it. You can have a gun in your car without a permit as long as it is unloaded and the ammunition is in another area of the car that is inaccessible to you at the time. At least that is how I understand things in this state.

if they get you out of your car--make sure all of your doors are locked, and refuse to voluntarily give them the keys.
All of the above does sound to be in line with the 'letter of the law',,,

but, IMO, why would you want to make any LEOs job tougher on you. It would seem to me that any time you become un-cooperative, you are raising suspinsion, and the possibility of 'probable cause'... another letter of the law.

The wife and I both carry, and have been stopped for traffic violations, both in TN as well as out of state. As advised in our HCP class, hands stay on the wheel, and advise the officer of your residential status, your permit, and that there IS a weapon in the car/truck. Everything has always gone smooth after that. Indiana by law has to run the serial for stolen weapon, so you have to surrender it to the officer. He handed the wifes XD45 back with a 'NICE GUN' comment and a slow down !!!:celebrate

I have always been 'thanked' by the officer for the way I presented the information about a weapon in the car. Just makes sense to me.
 

HankT

State Researcher
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
6,215
Location
Invisible Mode
imported post

mrbsox wrote:

All of the above does sound to be in line with the 'letter of the law',,,

but, IMO, why would you want to make any LEOs job tougher on you. It would seem to me that any time you become un-cooperative, you are raising suspinsion, and the possibility of 'probable cause'... another letter of the law.

The wife and I both carry, and have been stopped for traffic violations, both in TN as well as out of state. As advised in our HCP class, hands stay on the wheel, and advise the officer of your residential status, your permit, and that there IS a weapon in the car/truck. Everything has always gone smooth after that. Indiana by law has to run the serial for stolen weapon, so you have to surrender it to the officer. He handed the wifes XD45 back with a 'NICE GUN' comment and a slow down !!!:celebrate

Ahhh, I don't know...it's a moderately difficult choice.

I'd say whatever works for you and makes you comfortable, OK. But in a state that doesn't require disclosure, I fall on the side of not offering up non-mandated information in a traffic stop or any other police/citizen encounter that would complicate the event.

I'd be cooperative, business-like, and mum on the gun. If a specific question is asked, I'll reply truthfully. But the cop doesn't need to get in my bidness.

I can see the opposing view, though.

But, hey, the best defense is a good defense....don't get into the traffic stop in the first place. If you find yourself getting stopped multiple times for traffic violations....there's probably something wrong with your driving...
 

mrbsox

New member
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
2
Location
Gallatin, Tennessee, USA
imported post

HankT wrote:
If you find yourself getting stopped multiple times for traffic violations....there's probably something wrong with your driving...

Lol ... good point there also, albeit over several years. We've had our permits going on 10 years now.

To disclose or not to disclose, that is the question ... to para-phrase

Guess it boils down to freedom of choice, another freedom we could well loose if we don't start standing strong on the ones we STILL have.

George Washington didn't use the 1st ammendment to defeat the British
 

SlackwareRobert

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2008
Messages
1,338
Location
Alabama, ,
imported post

mrbsox wrote:
HankT wrote:
If you find yourself getting stopped multiple times for traffic violations....there's probably something wrong with your driving...

To disclose or not to disclose, that is the question ... to para-phrase

Guess it boils down to freedom of choice, another freedom we could well loose if we don't start standing strong on the ones we STILL have.

George Washington didn't use the 1st ammendment to defeat the British
Yea, but he didn't have king george nit picking about what the amendment says either.
My driving is perfect, I don't cross the line, but I definitely smear the paint a lot.:shock:

Going to be in area of border checkpoints soon. If I have a dog whistle file set up
in the car, how much amplitude should I use to mess with the nosey k-9 for when
I don't consent to a search? I just want to ensure that the dogs reaction is plainly
visible and not those no sign is a sign garbage. I know the high freq of
Benatar's Wurthering Hights drove one k-9 nuts in front of me, but would
prefer a more targeted approach.
Anyone remember the court decision that it isn't a crime to talk back to a police dog?
Sorry, I am a cat lover.... who volunteers nothing unless it serves my own interests.:dude:
 

suntzu

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Messages
1,230
Location
The south land
imported post

mrbsox wrote:
suntzu wrote:
Task Force 16 wrote:
If you're on foot and OC, LEO isn't going to have to ask if you are armed. Altough they may ask if you have a HCP. So far, I haven't had a LEO ask to see my HCP.

If you're pulled over in a traffic stop, no, you don't have to tell the officer that you are armed, but if you have been issued a HCP he'll find out when he runs your DL. Might as well letthem know right off so there's no surprises.
Just because you have a permit, does not mean you have a gun.

even if you have a gun in your vehicle, you are under absolutely no obligation to tell them about it. Even if they ask you point blank if you have a gun, you are not obligated to tell them--you can simply say refuse to answer it. If you do--also refuse to consent to any search if they ask for it. You can have a gun in your car without a permit as long as it is unloaded and the ammunition is in another area of the car that is inaccessible to you at the time. At least that is how I understand things in this state.

if they get you out of your car--make sure all of your doors are locked, and refuse to voluntarily give them the keys.
All of the above does sound to be in line with the 'letter of the law',,,

but, IMO, why would you want to make any LEOs job tougher on you. It would seem to me that any time you become un-cooperative, you are raising suspinsion, and the possibility of 'probable cause'... another letter of the law..

Simply put--and I'm by no means being an a__ho*e...but, my job isn't to make their job easy. That is what the Russians had to do every time they were told to BOHICA.

We have no obligation to answer any questions beyond those necessary to identify us when RAS or PC exist, unless you are driving, in which you are required to produce a driver license.

All of this will almost without a doubt be on audio--as I will have at least one on my person and another running in the car to record the conversation for my protection, and to make any future litigation and official complaint easier.

We have no obligation to answer any questions regardless of what they tell us. It isn't hindering, it isn't impeding--it is exercising your Constitutionally protected rights--and if we let them intimidate us--which many of them love to do--then they win. Intimidation, harassment, outright lying and bluffing can only work as long as we allow it to. We also should never voluntarily consent to any search of our person or belongings--if they have to ask, then they have no reason to search.

Remember---most of the time the police are fishing when they stop you. They are wanting to find a reason to take you to jail. They are not your friend in any form or fashion and IMO cannot be trusted. What you don't say--can't be used against you.

As for refusing to answer questions giving them RAS or PC--I'd like to see how my refusal to answer their questions can make them believe I am committing, about to commit or have already committed a crime, considering again that you have no obligation to speak to them.

If we refuse to stand up for our rights, then our rights will go the way of the dodo bird.
 

hi im drummer03

New member
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
3
Location
, ,
imported post

This is from what i was told in my HCP class.

1.When being pulled over take out you handgun permit.

2.Have it in hands on steering wheel.

3.When officersays theusual few first lines,hand him your permit and say "I have my THCP."

4.When he asks tell him.

I have done this several times with the firearm in my car and on my person.No problems.If your up front with them they will comply and mostly let you go.
 

dengop

New member
Joined
Jan 24, 2010
Messages
3
Location
, ,
imported post

General Washington used none of the first Ten Amendments to defeat the British Army.
The first ten amendments (the "Bill of Rights") were ratified December 15, 1791.
The Treaty of Paris, ended the war when the ratification documents were exchanged in Paris on 12 May 1784.
But I get your point.
 

dengop

New member
Joined
Jan 24, 2010
Messages
3
Location
, ,
imported post

I'm new to this, so in the interest of full disclosure here goes.
I have been a LEO going on thirty-four years and am still going strong.
I have been a NRA/FBI trained firearms instructor for over twenty years.
I am a Endowment Life Member of the NRA.
I have shot people.
I am a sheepdog. I will defend myself and others against wolves.
I believe anybody that carries legally is a sheepdog too.
I may be living in another world, but when did the police become the bad guys.
LEOs are trained to ID themselves as LEOs and to disclose they are armed when encountering other LEOs.
That is not to "cop" a break on a traffic stop or other encounter. That is because when LEOs see/find a weapon on our own we get very defensive. It is plain old fashion common sense. Carrying a firearm for defense is NOT A GAME. Some of the threads sound like it is.
We(LEOs) do tons of training now on "active shooters" We know there are many good citizens that have chosen to be "sheepdogs" and hope you are there when we (LEOs) need you. We are trained to interact with permit holders. Please don't turn a simple interaction into a situation. If you are legally carrying a weapon, the police will not be a problem. Deception will a LEO will almost always be a problem.
LEOs are not the problem. Citizens legally carrying firearms are not the problem.
If we don't work together and trust each other on some level, the wolves will win.
My two cents.
 

WCrawford

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
592
Location
Nashville, Tennessee, United States
imported post

dengop wrote:
I'm new to this, so in the interest of full disclosure here goes.
I have been a LEO going on thirty-four years and am still going strong.
I have been a NRA/FBI trained firearms instructor for over twenty years.
I am a Endowment Life Member of the NRA.
I have shot people.
I am a sheepdog. I will defend myself and others against wolves.
I believe anybody that carries legally is a sheepdog too.
I may be living in another world, but when did the police become the bad guys.
LEOs are trained to ID themselves as LEOs and to disclose they are armed when encountering other LEOs.
That is not to "cop" a break on a traffic stop or other encounter. That is because when LEOs see/find a weapon on our own we get very defensive. It is plain old fashion common sense. Carrying a firearm for defense is NOT A GAME. Some of the threads sound like it is.
We(LEOs) do tons of training now on "active shooters" We know there are many good citizens that have chosen to be "sheepdogs" and hope you are there when we (LEOs) need you. We are trained to interact with permit holders. Please don't turn a simple interaction into a situation. If you are legally carrying a weapon, the police will not be a problem. Deception will a LEO will almost always be a problem.
LEOs are not the problem. Citizens legally carrying firearms are not the problem.
If we don't work together and trust each other on some level, the wolves will win.
My two cents.
So what happens when the wolf is wearing the uniform of the LEO?

Not all police are bad, but there is enough documentation, from around the country, to lead the average person to believe that police are not to be trusted until proven otherwise when you are the subject of their investigations.
 

hotrod

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
569
Location
Union, Kentucky, USA
imported post

dengop wrote:
I'm new to this, so in the interest of full disclosure here goes.
I have been a LEO going on thirty-four years and am still going strong.
I have been a NRA/FBI trained firearms instructor for over twenty years.
I am a Endowment Life Member of the NRA.
I have shot people.
I am a sheepdog. I will defend myself and others against wolves.
I believe anybody that carries legally is a sheepdog too.
I may be living in another world, but when did the police become the bad guys.
LEOs are trained to ID themselves as LEOs and to disclose they are armed when encountering other LEOs.
That is not to "cop" a break on a traffic stop or other encounter. That is because when LEOs see/find a weapon on our own we get very defensive. It is plain old fashion common sense. Carrying a firearm for defense is NOT A GAME. Some of the threads sound like it is.
We(LEOs) do tons of training now on "active shooters" We know there are many good citizens that have chosen to be "sheepdogs" and hope you are there when we (LEOs) need you. We are trained to interact with permit holders. Please don't turn a simple interaction into a situation. If you are legally carrying a weapon, the police will not be a problem. Deception will a LEO will almost always be a problem.
LEOs are not the problem. Citizens legally carrying firearms are not the problem.
If we don't work together and trust each other on some level, the wolves will win.
My two cents.
Police became the bad guys when they stopped policing themselves. I left law enforcement after many years because the job stopped addressing problems within the ranks and blamed others for our inability to control ourselves. Unfortunately, 1 bad apple does spoil the whole bunch!!!
 

seveer13

New member
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
3
Location
Knoxville, ,
imported post

It is my understanding, and please correct me with verifiable facts, that you may be charged with obstruction at the LEO's discretion for not disclosing the fact you are carrying. I also know that for a fact your Permit may be revoked based on a review hearing that can be prompted by any LEO. This is what I was informed of when I questioned this myself. Although I did cooperate fully and disclosed I was wondering as well, sadly I was told it all depends on the LEO and how your behavior comes across to them...
 

Gundude

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
1,691
Location
Sandy Eggo County
imported post

seveer13 wrote:
It is my understanding, and please correct me with verifiable facts, that you may be charged with obstruction at the LEO's discretion for not disclosing the fact you are carrying. I also know that for a fact your Permit may be revoked based on a review hearing that can be prompted by any LEO. This is what I was informed of when I questioned this myself. Although I did cooperate fully and disclosed I was wondering as well, sadly I was told it all depends on the LEO and how your behavior comes across to them...

You do not have to talk to the police. Just say, "I decline to answer any questions without legal advice, and I don't consent to any unconstitutional searches." Then close your pie hole. Watch this link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
 
Top