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Thread: Open Carry

  1. #1
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    There was a O.C. carry picnic in a beach that is about twenty miles from my house. This happened on September 13th. A person who was unloading his semi-automatic weapon so that he could transport it in a friend's vehicle, accidently discharged it causing a croud of about 150 people on the beach to panic and run for cover. Heplead not guilty to amisdemeanor charge of reckless use of a firearm.

    This was a picnic sponsored by the Michigan Open Carry organization.



  2. #2
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    Well this goes to prove,

    All this unnecessary handling of a firearm, that was previously,I assume,secured in a holster is an accident waiting to happen.

    Why can't these anti's see that a properly holstered firearm, on a persons person, is already in the safest place it can be.

  3. #3
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    How did the OC crowd react?
    Could it have been the ~25 oc'rs diving for cover and releasing
    thumb breaks that freaked the sheep? Not the backfire in the parking lot.

    After all, as the primary first target choice, we need to protect ourselves.

    Would have loved to see the cops face when they showed up for a gunfire
    call and everyone has a gun on them.

    But I agree the reckless use is required by law, so hopefully he gets
    the token common sense person in the court system.
    Can you just imagine the number of gun shots there would be if cops had
    to follow the same rule? Can you say anti version of wild west.

  4. #4
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    http://www.mlive.com/news/kzgazette/...xml&coll=7

    Man charged with reckless gun use at guns-rights picnic Friday, September 25, 2009 Kalamazoo BY REX HALL JR.

    rhall@kalamazoogazette.com
    (269) 388-7784
    SOUTH HAVEN -- A Kalamazoo man attending a gun-rights picnic at South Haven's South Beach has been charged with reckless use of a firearm after his weapon discharged, police said Thursday.
    Jonathan Wayne Sager, 28, was unloading his semiautomatic handgun and preparing it for transport after the Sept. 13 picnic when it discharged at 5:44 p.m., said Chief Rod A. Somerlott of the South Haven Police Department.
    A warrant authorized Wednesday by the Van Buren County Prosecutor's Office charged Sager with reckless use of a firearm, which is a misdemeanor, South Haven police said in a press release issued Thursday.
    Somerlott said they wanted to complete their investigation before issuing the press release.
    No one was struck by the bullet that was discharged.
    Somerlott said officers found remnants of the bullet in the parking lot, leading police to conclude the gun was pointed in a downward direction when it was fired.
    ``Was his intention to fire the gun? No,'' Somerlott said. ``At least, I don't believe so.''
    However, police said they believe about 150 beachgoers left the area voluntarily after the shot was fired.
    Police responded to the area after receiving calls about the gunshot being fired. They later stopped Sager, who was riding in a friend's pickup truck, and three friends in the 800 block of LaGrange Street.
    At the time of the stop, Somerlott said Sager and his friends told police they were looking for the local police station so they could report the incident.
    At the scene of the stop, Sager's weapon was checked and returned to him and he was allowed to leave, police said.
    Sager voluntarily turned himself in Wednesday at Van Buren County District Court following the issuance of a misdemeanor warrant and was later released pending a formal court arraignment, a news release said.
    Sager and his friends had attended a picnic on the afternoon of Sept. 13 that was organized by Michigan Open Carry, which promotes awareness of the state law that allows citizens to openly carry a firearm in most places.




  5. #5
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    DonTreadOnMe wrote:
    http://www.mlive.com/news/kzgazette/...xml&coll=7

    Man charged with reckless gun use at guns-rights picnic Friday, September 25, 2009 Kalamazoo BY REX HALL JR.

    rhall@kalamazoogazette.com
    (269) 388-7784
    SOUTH HAVEN -- A Kalamazoo man attending a gun-rights picnic at South Haven's South Beach has been charged with reckless use of a firearm after his weapon discharged, police said Thursday.
    Jonathan Wayne Sager, 28, was unloading his semiautomatic handgun and preparing it for transport after the Sept. 13 picnic when it discharged at 5:44 p.m., said Chief Rod A. Somerlott of the South Haven Police Department.
    A warrant authorized Wednesday by the Van Buren County Prosecutor's Office charged Sager with reckless use of a firearm, which is a misdemeanor, South Haven police said in a press release issued Thursday.
    Somerlott said they wanted to complete their investigation before issuing the press release.
    No one was struck by the bullet that was discharged.
    Somerlott said officers found remnants of the bullet in the parking lot, leading police to conclude the gun was pointed in a downward direction when it was fired.
    ``Was his intention to fire the gun? No,'' Somerlott said. ``At least, I don't believe so.''
    However, police said they believe about 150 beachgoers left the area voluntarily after the shot was fired.
    Police responded to the area after receiving calls about the gunshot being fired. They later stopped Sager, who was riding in a friend's pickup truck, and three friends in the 800 block of LaGrange Street.
    At the time of the stop, Somerlott said Sager and his friends told police they were looking for the local police station so they could report the incident.
    At the scene of the stop, Sager's weapon was checked and returned to him and he was allowed to leave, police said.
    Sager voluntarily turned himself in Wednesday at Van Buren County District Court following the issuance of a misdemeanor warrant and was later released pending a formal court arraignment, a news release said.
    Sager and his friends had attended a picnic on the afternoon of Sept. 13 that was organized by Michigan Open Carry, which promotes awareness of the state law that allows citizens to openly carry a firearm in most places.


    Gun Goes Off at Funeral Luncheon
    Danville, VA - Things took a strange turn at a funeral luncheon on Monday in Danville, after a gun fired in the restaurant injured four people. It seems to be an accidental shooting.

    It happened at Libby Hill Restaurant.

    Police said preliminary evidence shows a retired police officer, attending the funeral, was carrying a gun.

    *snip*


    No charges have been filed, but the investigation continues.

    As for Libby Hill restaurant, it is open for service. Service actually continued through the entire incident.

    http://www.wset.com/news/stories/0809/654980.html

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    What I dont get is, the OCer gets charged, but the retired officer no charges? No I am not saying the retired officer should have been....just pointing out the double standard.
    Why should this be looked at as anything other than what it was a simple accident, at lest the OCer did not hurt anyone!

  6. #6
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    How much do you want to bet, if the person involved in the AD, at the MOC picnic had been a retired cop, there'd be no charges pending there too.
    Big Gay Al
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    Pretrial started today. Sounds like the prosecuting attorney doesn't want to work out a plea bargin. Trial is being postponed yet again.

  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    DonTreadOnMe wrote:
    DonTreadOnMe wrote:
    http://www.mlive.com/news/kzgazette/...910.xml&coll=7

    Man charged with reckless gun use at guns-rights picnic Friday, September 25, 2009 Kalamazoo BY REX HALL JR.

    rhall@kalamazoogazette.com
    (269) 388-7784
    SOUTH HAVEN -- A Kalamazoo man attending a gun-rights picnic at South Haven's South Beach has been charged with reckless use of a firearm after his weapon discharged, police said Thursday.
    Jonathan Wayne Sager, 28, was unloading his semiautomatic handgun and preparing it for transport after the Sept. 13 picnic when it discharged at 5:44 p.m., said Chief Rod A. Somerlott of the South Haven Police Department.
    A warrant authorized Wednesday by the Van Buren County Prosecutor's Office charged Sager with reckless use of a firearm, which is a misdemeanor, South Haven police said in a press release issued Thursday.
    Somerlott said they wanted to complete their investigation before issuing the press release.
    No one was struck by the bullet that was discharged.
    Somerlott said officers found remnants of the bullet in the parking lot, leading police to conclude the gun was pointed in a downward direction when it was fired.
    ``Was his intention to fire the gun? No,'' Somerlott said. ``At least, I don't believe so.''
    However, police said they believe about 150 beachgoers left the area voluntarily after the shot was fired.
    Police responded to the area after receiving calls about the gunshot being fired. They later stopped Sager, who was riding in a friend's pickup truck, and three friends in the 800 block of LaGrange Street.
    At the time of the stop, Somerlott said Sager and his friends told police they were looking for the local police station so they could report the incident.
    At the scene of the stop, Sager's weapon was checked and returned to him and he was allowed to leave, police said.
    Sager voluntarily turned himself in Wednesday at Van Buren County District Court following the issuance of a misdemeanor warrant and was later released pending a formal court arraignment, a news release said.
    Sager and his friends had attended a picnic on the afternoon of Sept. 13 that was organized by Michigan Open Carry, which promotes awareness of the state law that allows citizens to openly carry a firearm in most places.


    Gun Goes Off at Funeral Luncheon
    Danville, VA - Things took a strange turn at a funeral luncheon on Monday in Danville, after a gun fired in the restaurant injured four people. It seems to be an accidental shooting.

    It happened at Libby Hill Restaurant.

    Police said preliminary evidence shows a retired police officer, attending the funeral, was carrying a gun.

    *snip*


    No charges have been filed, but the investigation continues.

    As for Libby Hill restaurant, it is open for service. Service actually continued through the entire incident.

    http://www.wset.com/news/stories/0809/654980.html

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    What I dont get is, the OCer gets charged, but the retired officer no charges?* No I am not saying the retired officer should have been....just pointing out the double standard.
    * Why should this be looked at as anything other than what it was a simple accident, at lest the OCer did not hurt anyone!
    This may not be so much a double standard as it is a difference in state laws. Also prosecution is very dependent on the political views of the particular prosecutor.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  9. #9
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    Wow, I never saw this story.

    Well, if he broke the law, he broke the law. People need to use this as an example of why firearm safety is IMPORTANT! And practice of that safety is extremely important. Of course I hope not to eat those words, but I've my, in a younger time of my life of stupid handling of a firearm.

    As for the double standard vs varying state laws argument, I've got one better than a retired cop in VA or someone shooting their gun accidentally at an Open Carry meet.... try a loaded gun going off after "hitting the floor" in a case and the bullet struck a woman (she lived, thank goodness): http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/78549722.html

    With all that said. Seriously? A guy accidentally shoots his gun off, at a beach, full of people, during an Open Carry meet. That is all kinds of funny and bad at the same time.

  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Actually it is all bad. There may be some irony in the event, but it is all bad.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  11. #11
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    tekshogun wrote:
    Wow, I never saw this story.

    Well, if he broke the law, he broke the law. People need to use this as an example of why firearm safety is IMPORTANT! And practice of that safety is extremely important. Of course I hope not to eat those words, but I've my, in a younger time of my life of stupid handling of a firearm.

    As for the double standard vs varying state laws argument, I've got one better than a retired cop in VA or someone shooting their gun accidentally at an Open Carry meet.... try a loaded gun going off after "hitting the floor" in a case and the bullet struck a woman (she lived, thank goodness): http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/78549722.html

    With all that said. Seriously? A guy accidentally shoots his gun off, at a beach, full of people, during an Open Carry meet. That is all kinds of funny and bad at the same time.
    Tek, it didn't happen in the midst of all the people on the beach. It happened in the parking lot for the beach where there were only the shooter and a few of his companions in close proximity. Hundreds of beach goers did not go running and screaming to get to their cars for fear of their safety as the media portrays it. In fact, according to the reports of those who were there (other OC'ers) the shot went undetected other than the shooter and his friends who standing nearby.

  12. #12
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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    tekshogun wrote:
    Wow, I never saw this story.

    Well, if he broke the law, he broke the law. People need to use this as an example of why firearm safety is IMPORTANT! And practice of that safety is extremely important. Of course I hope not to eat those words, but I've my, in a younger time of my life of stupid handling of a firearm.

    As for the double standard vs varying state laws argument, I've got one better than a retired cop in VA or someone shooting their gun accidentally at an Open Carry meet.... try a loaded gun going off after "hitting the floor" in a case and the bullet struck a woman (she lived, thank goodness): http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/78549722.html

    With all that said. Seriously? A guy accidentally shoots his gun off, at a beach, full of people, during an Open Carry meet. That is all kinds of funny and bad at the same time.
    Tek, it didn't happen in the midst of all the people on the beach. It happened in the parking lot for the beach where there were only the shooter and a few of his companions in close proximity. Hundreds of beach goers did not go running and screaming to get to their cars for fear of their safety as the media portrays it. In fact, according to the reports of those who were there (other OC'ers) the shot went undetected other than the shooter and his friends who standing nearby.
    I think you all misread theintention of my statement. You're in a public place (on the beach or in the parking lot adjacent to the beach, means you're at the beach), you were there for a pro-gun meeting. Now, whether or not the meeting is still going on or not, you are hanging around or in the process of leaving, if your gun goes off, that to me is funny. It is bad, 100% bad that it happened, thank goodness no one got hurt, but it is quite hilarious. Forgive me, but it's dry, ironic, depressing humor. I can't help it. I could only but shake my head in reading the story.

    Ok, so the parking lot was not full of people, but lets not trivialize what happened. One of the companions standing around him could have been hit or someone else further away. Thankfully, the gun was pointed down, in a safe direction, at the time of the discharge. But if you can make the mistake of doing something that causes the gun to go off, you can also make the mistake of pointing it in a wrong direction. I'll be honest, I have a morbid curiosity, but I am very happy no one was struck by the bullet. The woman in Jacksonville, NC is perhaps lucky because she was hit with a .22, which can do a lot of damage, but it didn't take her head off as a .357 may have.

  13. #13
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    SlackwareRobert wrote:
    But I agree the reckless use is required by law, so hopefully he gets
    the token common sense person in the court system.
    I feel bad for the guy, but agree that the law exists to ensure people are extra careful while handling firearms, so as to support the focus: to help ensure innocent bystanders aren't shot or killed.

    I've shot thousands of times, perhaps 10,000+ rounds, for 37 years, and never once have I had an accidental discharge. I am by no means perfect! Just very careful, as I was taught to be.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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