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Thread: So I went to Greentop last night................

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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    First off this is not a slam on Greentop. They are very friendly to me and are always helpful even when they are super busy.

    So here is the story. I went to Greentop last night about 30 minutes before closing. I was just going to get some targets and some accessories when I saw it! The new Delta Elite. I was on the list to get one so I put a deposit on it and I mentioned to the sales rep that the Delta Elite would be my open carry piece for lobby day next year.

    Would you believe that the sales rep thought that open carrying at the capitol was a terrible idea? He said something about how he would not go anywhere near that place with a gun! I said something about how I did it twice last year and mentioned the VCDLand what lobby day is all about. I could tell he wasn't hearing it. I know that gun counter-sales people hear so much bravo sierra from customers and looky-loo'sthat they probably have a tough time deciphering fact from nonsense.

    The point of the story is this; we still have a long way to go. When you have a sales rep at one of the East Coast's largest stores for firearms make comments like that we have a communication gap somewhere.Last year I talked to a sales rep about how we could get the word out about lobby day to their customers and staff, to say I had a luke warm response would be putting it nicely.

    The VCDL, well-informed open-carriers, and lobby day participants are their friends and I don't think they know it. How do we bridge that gap? Talking to them about open-carrying and VCDL seems to fall on deaf ears.
    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

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    I have found that the majority of gun stores I have gone to are only there to sell products and could really care less about the political aspects of freedom. I don't even waste my time anymore making chit-chat with them; just buy what I need and go. I truly think that you could gain more ground talking to a wall and get more done watching pain dry. Even so I have given a good amount of cash to Green Top over the years and will continue to. As long as we keep fighting they can keep supplying.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    TD, perhaps you could ask to meet with the owner and senior management of the place. Talk to them about OC and other issues in your community and invite them to a VCDL meeting and tell them about OCDO.

    People that have storefronts can be a valuable resource for getting the word out about OC. See if they will take one of the VCDL desktop brochure holders and display it prominently. If they have more than one register, ask of you can put one at each of them.

    Just my $.02 worth. I don't live in your AOR, but I'd love to visit this place.

    Semper Paratus!
    msc
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    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    I won't let the newbie employees talk to me about anything serious. If they ain't been there 10 years or more, they're invisible to me. Most of the new guys are just knowledgeable enough to be downright dangerous.

    Its a shame but that is the way it is.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I noticed the Green Top recently (at least, I only noticed it a few months ago) put a sign on the door that says only LEOs and CHP holders can carry in the store. I asked about this and they said something about their insurance generally not allowing loaded firearms in the store. I had OC'd in there one one or two occasions previously without them saying anything.

    Not to thread hijack, but what do you think of their prices? I always feel that their prices seem higher than they should be... of course the alternatives close by (Gander Mtn and Bass Pro) also seem high. Maybe I'm just cheap...

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    VA Lawyer wrote:
    SNIP Maybe I'm just cheap...
    Low cost legal advice! You heard it here first, folks! :P
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    VA Lawyer wrote:
    I noticed the Green Top recently (at least, I only noticed it a few months ago) put a sign on the door that says only LEOs and CHP holders can carry in the store. I asked about this and they said something about their insurance generally not allowing loaded firearms in the store. I had OC'd in there one one or two occasions previously without them saying anything.

    Not to thread hijack, but what do you think of their prices? I always feel that their prices seem higher than they should be... of course the alternatives close by (Gander Mtn and Bass Pro) also seem high. Maybe I'm just cheap...
    The real story behind the sign is that they had a customer bring in a loaded .308 and blew a hole in the ceiling.

    They do not prohibit holstered and loaded weapon...a long as they stay holstered.

    They had another ND from a customer that wanted to try his loaded handgun in a holster.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    VA Lawyer wrote:
    SNIP Maybe I'm just cheap...
    Low cost legal advice! You heard it here first, folks! :P
    Maybe he works on a sliding scale - the better advice you want, the more you pay for it.

    Just kidding.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    Toad wrote:
    I have found that the majority of gun stores I have gone to are only there to sell products and could really care less about the political aspects of freedom. I don't even waste my time anymore making chit-chat with them; just buy what I need and go. I truly think that you could gain more ground talking to a wall and get more done watching pain dry. Even so I have given a good amount of cash to Green Top over the years and will continue to. As long as we keep fighting they can keep supplying.
    I guess that the problem is that, although that might be true, many people who are new to the scene look at these guys as professionals and sources of information. What if you were a newbie and asked that sales man about open carrying? Not only would the sales man be ignorant of the laws but now a newbie would be as well. Then that newbie tells two people that you can't carry at the capital....and so on. They should not be experts per-say but they should be able to either accurately suggest Virginia law OR be trained not to speak of legality at all.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    richarcm wrote:
    Toad wrote:
    I have found that the majority of gun stores I have gone to are only there to sell products and could really care less about the political aspects of freedom. I don't even waste my time anymore making chit-chat with them; just buy what I need and go. I truly think that you could gain more ground talking to a wall and get more done watching pain dry. Even so I have given a good amount of cash to Green Top over the years and will continue to. As long as we keep fighting they can keep supplying.
    I guess that the problem is that, although that might be true, many people who are new to the scene look at these guys as professionals and sources of information. What if you were a newbie and asked that sales man about open carrying? Not only would the sales man be ignorant of the laws but now a newbie would be as well. Then that newbie tells two people that you can't carry at the capital....and so on. They should not be experts per-say but they should be able to either accurately suggest Virginia law OR be trained not to speak of legality at all.
    That's true. Pat Hopkins told me once that Tasers were illegal for civilians. Pat's been there from the beginning and should know better,

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    VA Lawyer wrote:
    SNIP Maybe I'm just cheap...
    Low cost legal advice! You heard it here first, folks! :P
    Maybe he works on a sliding scale - the better advice you want, the more you pay for it.

    Just kidding.

    Yata hey
    Uh oh, they've discovered the secret of my billing structure!

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    I drove from NOVA to Greentop to buy an AR15 about 9 months ago. I called before I left and was told that my CWP wasn'ta valid second form of ID. Rather than argue I brought my voters reg card. When I arrived, there was no rush to assist me until I took off my jacketrevealing my firearm. Grantedthey werebusy, but after my purchase some guy interupted my conversation with the sales rep asking if I was done. Had I not finished my purchase I would've stopped the process and went to Gander Mtn. I whole heartedly support the local guys, but when they display such arrogance in front of someone spending over $1000 there might be a problem.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Toad wrote:
    I have found that the majority of gun stores I have gone to are only there to sell products and could really care less about the political aspects of freedom.
    I too have found the same thing
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    No slap intended, but if you want conversation and quality time, the best is during the week before 3:00 pm. On the week-ends they are most often mobbed and trying to get to all of the customers.

    I know most of the long term guys and it is the same for me on week-ends or any other time they are backed up with customers. I don't take it personally.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    They don't always seem to like it when I OC in there and in fact another customer asked one of the older salesman how he felt about it before and was given an answer to the effect of "makes me nervous but it's his right... and he's a regular customer."

    I think they've warned up to me over time. I used to have an iffy attitude about them (if you read my previous posts you'll find this) but I think I too have warmed up to them.

    Edit: Grape is also right. When I was there in slow time they were friendly as could be and took out damn near every 1911 in the case and discussed each with me while waiting a little more than an hour for my check to go through.

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    Regular Member kennys's Avatar
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    Not to mention, I have seen people of questionable character go in there. They will stand around and make the most un-called for comments that would make a person wonder, while at the same time trying to kiss up to the sales staff. The gun shops are often under scrutiny any time issues happen like VT, I am sure it puts more pressure on them as well.

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    For the most part, I've always found the sales staff in Green Top to be nice folks. To echo what was said above, I've gone in there several times during non-peak hours (say 9am on a weekday) and they have always been happy to chat about and pull out a bunch of different firearms. In particular, Mike is a really nice and helpful guy (he is apparently one of their go-to guys for AK and AR rifle questions). During peak hours, the place is a mad house and they don't have the time to do much other than ring the cash register.

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    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
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    VA Lawyer wrote:
    I noticed the Green Top recently (at least, I only noticed it a few months ago) put a sign on the door that says only LEOs and CHP holders can carry in the store. I asked about this and they said something about their insurance generally not allowing loaded firearms in the store. I had OC'd in there one one or two occasions previously without them saying anything.

    That sounds like atotal BS excuseto me. If there were insurance issues, similar to what people deal with at gun shows, then CHP holders and employees wouldn't be able to carry loaded weapons either.

    I would bet that it is a store policy and reallya anti-open carry policy at that...
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

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    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
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    Toad wrote:
    I have found that the majority of gun stores I have gone to are only there to sell products and could really care less about the political aspects of freedom. I don't even waste my time anymore making chit-chat with them; just buy what I need and go. I truly think that you could gain more ground talking to a wall and get more done watching pain dry. Even so I have given a good amount of cash to Green Top over the years and will continue to. As long as we keep fighting they can keep supplying.
    Even worse than that are the one's that act as if they are lawyers, constitutional scholars, and general firearm law experts and then go ahead andvomit old and repealed law at you from 8 years ago. When you try to correct them they become defensive and talk to you as if you have never handled a firearm or read the state firearms statutes.

    Then they chastise you for open carrying because "it will get snatched from you and used on you."

    Basically, I have seen several gun shop employees from multiple shops andin multiple states act like this and that is not even mentioning their poor customer service and sales skill.

    Sometimes I wonder who's side they are really on and what are their true priorities because it certainly appears to me that they are not abouttruly educating, selling products, and growing the business. Helping expand the gun owning community is the last thing I would expect from them.

    Sometimes, we are our own worst enemy.
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

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    VA Lawyer wrote:
    ... of course the alternatives close by (Gander Mtn and Bass Pro) also seem high.
    There is also DeGoff's.

    I have only been in there twice, but I was very pleased with the service I received, and I don't think the prices were unreasonable.

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    Toad wrote:
    I have found that the majority of gun stores I have gone to are only there to sell products and could really care less about the political aspects of freedom.
    If I could find some way of financing the endeavor, I would LOVE to open a freedom-loving (but fastidiously law-abiding *) gun shop in the western half of Henrico county. I did some preliminary research on it, but I think that dream is going to stay a dream. Sadly, although Susan and I have outstanding credit, a quarter of a million dollar business startup loan is beyond our reach (Susan wants to reserve our savings and that debt for building our house, and I can't blame her). If only I had a rich relative.

    It's kind of a bummer, because the IT field is getting more crowded and more cutthroat with every passing day.

    Ah, well.

    (* It's kind of sad that the political climate is such that I feel the need to make that explicit. But I do, so I did. It is what it is.)


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    bblackmoor wrote:
    It's kind of a bummer, because the IT field is getting more crowded and more cutthroat with every passing day.

    Sometimes it makes me wonder if I chose the right careerfield, but getting close to 15 years in, it would be a bit difficult to turn my back on it! It's been my observation that those who are hard workers and are very knowledgeable in their field will always have work. Those who are "pretenders" usually fill in the Tier 0 jobs. Plus you can always count on them to break stuff that we will have to come fix!

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    Milbars wrote:
    bblackmoor wrote:
    It's kind of a bummer, because the IT field is getting more crowded and more cutthroat with every passing day.

    Sometimes it makes me wonder if I chose the right careerfield, but getting close to 15 years in, it would be a bit difficult to turn my back on it! It's been my observation that those who are hard workers and are very knowledgeable in their field will always have work. Those who are "pretenders" usually fill in the Tier 0 jobs. Plus you can always count on them to break stuff that we will have to come fix!
    I alsohave this thought floating around in my head on a regular basis. Some days, I wonder why I just didn't dig ditches for a living. There must be a lower number ofjerk-offs on the shovel line. Have you ever heard this: "I didn't download that"

    Just out of curiosity, if you had to pick another field, which would it be? Personally, I would have gone into law. Thereare a boatload ofcustomers born every day.

    On topic,I find the attendants at Greentop to be a little "know-it-all".

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    buster81 wrote:
    Just out of curiosity, if you had to pick another field, which would it be? Personally, I would have gone into law. Thereare a boatload ofcustomers born every day.

    Most of the time I find law to be a personally rewarding endeavor and am glad that I decided to pursue it. However, the irregular schedule, late nights, pressure to "bill" hours and strong personalities can be tiresome... particularly the expectation to be available 24/7. The recession has also hit the legal industry pretty hard. I really feel for recent law grads who have found themselves with a mountain of law school debt and no job to pay for it.

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    VA Lawyer wrote:
    buster81 wrote:
    Just out of curiosity, if you had to pick another field, which would it be? Personally, I would have gone into law. Thereare a boatload ofcustomers born every day.

    Most of the time I find law to be a personally rewarding endeavor and am glad that I decided to pursue it. However, the irregular schedule, late nights, pressure to "bill" hours and strong personalities can be tiresome... particularly the expectation to be available 24/7. The recession has also hit the legal industry pretty hard. I really feel for recent law grads who have found themselves with a mountain of law school debt and no job to pay for it.
    I guess the economy in the crapper has taken everyone for a ride in the wrong direction.

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