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Thread: Open Carry to me more than just a right.

  1. #1
    Regular Member kennys's Avatar
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    I probably am going to open up a big can of worms by starting this thread, but I just want to make a statement and see what kind of comments I get.

    While Open Carry is being able to exercise our second amendment rights, I believe there is a little more to it than just that. So often the media and anti gun folk like to put us down as radical, as well as pass us off as less than responsible gun owners. We all know that is not true. Open carry to me is not only being able to exercise my right and protect my family and myself, but as well to show the public that we are people too. We have to project ourselves as reasonable and responsible and as well safety conscious, be friendly and far beyond all, law abiding. We are representatives of a right in which we cherish; we need to hold our ground while at the same time setting an example. I have spoke with many people that just really don’t know much about us. As well some wanted to know more because of issue friendly carries. We have to be our own media because they are seldom on our side.

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    Regular Member Bulldog1967's Avatar
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    I agree with everything you said sir.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    You're just preaching to the choir here, Sir. I'm pretty sure everyone on here feels the same way. I enjoy talking to people and educating them when I OC. I make sure I'm carrying some of Jim's OC cards whenever I leave the house. I try to make eye contact with everyone I come across and smile and exchange greetings with them. Quite often, they don't even notice my sidearm.

    I also believe OCing does prevent crime. There is no way of measuring how often an OCer prevents a crime, because usually its a very subtle thing. A BadGuy (BG) sees an Ocer and thinks they're either an LEO or just someone he'd rather not mess with and leaves the area without anyone being the wiser. There was the quantifiable incident when someone here on OCDO was in a Suntrust bank (and seriously lacking in Situational Awareness (SA). A BG enters the bank with a ski mask, sees the OCer and does an about face with just a couple tellers that saw what happened. I guess it happened pretty quickly and I don't remember the details.

    I'd like to believe that I have personally either prevented a crime or even gotten a few BG's to change their future plans when they noticed me OCing. That just doesn't happen when you CC. I believe you are more likely to get into a lead-slinging contest with a BG if you are CCing than you are if you're OCing because your average criminal is a coward at heart. Without his weapon (knife, gun, stick, whatever), he's just a lowlife scumbag with no future and probably not very intelligent.

    As mentioned here many times, OCing definitely improves the manners of everyone around you. I mention it to my kids and they just roll their eyes, but it is true. I'm sure everyone on OCDO that OCs can attest to this fact. We all know an armed society is a polite society.

    Do we OC just to improve other people's manners and walk around to prevent crime? Not I. I'm too broken down to be a SuperHero and I would look pretty silly in tights and a cape. I carry (OC and CC) to protect the lives of my family and those around me.

    There... That's more than my $.02 worth, I think.

    Semper Paratus
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    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    We had an OC dinner at Champps one evening, a group of 3 new guys showed up, one of them ordered a beer.

    Bad form.

    One of the group (Ed) told him that is was legal, but to please not come with us next time if they insisted on drinking while carrrying.

    Just like all prejudices, folks have pre-conceived notions of who & what we are.

    Fair or unfair, it's our duty to disabuse them of their bigotry.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    OC can be educational for the masses and a great opportunity to exercise our gun rights.

    I also think though, thatOC has its time and place, as does CC, as well as not carrying at all....depends on the circumstances. As Bill said, drinking while OC'ing is considered bad form, although perfectly legal.

    Its important to remember that OC in some situationsmay not be practical or safe due to large amounts of people crushed together in a confined area. Another thing too is whether or not someone has practiced their weapon retention abilities to protect their exposed handgun. Lots of things to consider....
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
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    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    Here's another wrinkle: your average WalMart shopper doesn't understand abstractions like "protecting rights". The average person wouldn't know a right if it came up and bit him, and certainly hasn't read the Constitution. Their idea of their government is whatever they got as seniors in high school. I see this as social fact. And, as Jesus said, "The poor you shall have with you always."

    So I prefer to couch my attitudes in more concrete, and hence understandable terms. Every American has the power to defend himself, his family, and his home. I'm interested in self-defense, not "gun rights".

    Sixteenth Century peasant-turned-samurai Musashi said, "Never fight on the enemy's battlefield." And when we talk about "gun rights" or "Second Amendment rights", we're talking about intellectual abstractions that can be argued by talking heads on television. When we talk about personal defense and self-protection, that's personal and concrete. Not arguable.

    (Besides, in Virginia, it's "Article I, Section 13 Rights".)

    Some folks have said, "Possession is nine-tenths of the law." I think that's wrong. In my view, possession is one-tenth; the other nine-tenths is how you characterize that possession. The story you tell with your choice of words will create pictures in the minds of others and once that imagery is created, it becomes a reality. (That's my secret to successful litigation, by the way, now you know.)

    So please stop fighting on the enemy's battlefield. Choose terms and phrases that support a favorable characterization of our right to self-defense.

    Here's an example: there are no "anti-gun states" - none of them have disarmed their police, or actually legislated away guns. Instead, I refer to Maryland, New York, New Jersey, Illinois, Massachussetts, and California as "pro-crime states." By inhibiting the ability of ordinary citizens' ability to defend themselves, they have created a climate that favors criminals. I don't see any question about that.

    "Gun rights" is a phrase Diane Sawyer would use. I say, "Self-defense."
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    user wrote:
    Here's another wrinkle: your average WalMart shopper doesn't understand abstractions like "protecting rights". The average person wouldn't know a right if it came up and bit him, and certainly hasn't read the Constitution. Their idea of their government is whatever they got as seniors in high school. I see this as social fact. And, as Jesus said, "The poor you shall have with you always."

    So I prefer to couch my attitudes in more concrete, and hence understandable terms. Every American has the power to defend himself, his family, and his home. I'm interested in self-defense, not "gun rights".

    Sixteenth Century peasant-turned-samurai Musashi said, "Never fight on the enemy's battlefield." And when we talk about "gun rights" or "Second Amendment rights", we're talking about intellectual abstractions that can be argued by talking heads on television. When we talk about personal defense and self-protection, that's personal and concrete. Not arguable.

    (Besides, in Virginia, it's "Article I, Section 13 Rights".)

    Some folks have said, "Possession is nine-tenths of the law." I think that's wrong. In my view, possession is one-tenth; the other nine-tenths is how you characterize that possession. The story you tell with your choice of words will create pictures in the minds of others and once that imagery is created, it becomes a reality. (That's my secret to successful litigation, by the way, now you know.)

    So please stop fighting on the enemy's battlefield. Choose terms and phrases that support a favorable characterization of our right to self-defense.

    Here's an example: there are no "anti-gun states" - none of them have disarmed their police, or actually legislated away guns. Instead, I refer to Maryland, New York, New Jersey, Illinois, Massachussetts, and California as "pro-crime states." By inhibiting the ability of ordinary citizens' ability to defend themselves, they have created a climate that favors criminals. I don't see any question about that.

    "Gun rights" is a phrase Diane Sawyer would use. I say, "Self-defense."
    Well said and very much to the point.

    Perception is everything. We are what others conclude we are from what they see and hear. If we can redirect/influence their perception through painting an improved image of ourselves, we take positive steps towards our goals.

    Knowing your audience doesn't hurt either. You've got to put it in terms they understand.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member kennys's Avatar
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    user wrote:
    Here's another wrinkle: your average WalMart shopper doesn't understand abstractions like "protecting rights". The average person wouldn't know a right if it came up and bit him, and certainly hasn't read the Constitution. Their idea of their government is whatever they got as seniors in high school. I see this as social fact. And, as Jesus said, "The poor you shall have with you always."

    So I prefer to couch my attitudes in more concrete, and hence understandable terms. Every American has the power to defend himself, his family, and his home. I'm interested in self-defense, not "gun rights".

    Sixteenth Century peasant-turned-samurai Musashi said, "Never fight on the enemy's battlefield." And when we talk about "gun rights" or "Second Amendment rights", we're talking about intellectual abstractions that can be argued by talking heads on television. When we talk about personal defense and self-protection, that's personal and concrete. Not arguable.

    (Besides, in Virginia, it's "Article I, Section 13 Rights".)

    Some folks have said, "Possession is nine-tenths of the law." I think that's wrong. In my view, possession is one-tenth; the other nine-tenths is how you characterize that possession. The story you tell with your choice of words will create pictures in the minds of others and once that imagery is created, it becomes a reality. (That's my secret to successful litigation, by the way, now you know.)

    So please stop fighting on the enemy's battlefield. Choose terms and phrases that support a favorable characterization of our right to self-defense.

    Here's an example: there are no "anti-gun states" - none of them have disarmed their police, or actually legislated away guns. Instead, I refer to Maryland, New York, New Jersey, Illinois, Massachussetts, and California as "pro-crime states." By inhibiting the ability of ordinary citizens' ability to defend themselves, they have created a climate that favors criminals. I don't see any question about that.

    "Gun rights" is a phrase Diane Sawyer would use. I say, "Self-defense."
    Never mind, I havn't had my java yet and I over thought what you wrote. Yes I totaly agree.

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    Regular Member kennys's Avatar
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    This may have already have been tried I don’t know. Sometimes I seem to think that we need to put together a gun fair. I know for public service the police put on fairs about the affects of drunk driving to other safety awareness. If we could do something like this, it would be a good way to show the community how responsible and aware we are as well as other good things about us that typically the media and anti gun leave out.

    It could contain things from the basic gun safety course’s, to locks and storage. It could be as well a good introduction to VCDL, OCDO, and some of the many other gun friendly organizations. As well it could be informative to the public and business owners as to why a no gun establishment, actually makes it more dangerous to the un armed citizen. There are so many other things that could be added as well.

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    Protecting one's self, family and property includes so much more than just self defense. As User stated the average W-M shopper does know or understand the concept of what we stand for. For the most part neither do the employees (Disclaimer I am not a fan of W-M, never shop there and I could tell you horror of how they have killed and injured employees as if it did not matter).

    Kennys has a very good idea, remember it about more than gun rights.

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    kenny wrote:
    Protecting one's self, family and property includes so much more than just self defense. As User stated the average W-M shopper does know or understand the concept of what we stand for. For the most part neither do the employees (Disclaimer I am not a fan of W-M, never shop there and I could tell you horror of how they have killed and injured employees as if it did not matter).

    Kennys has a very good idea, remember it about more than gun rights.
    I agree with your W-M sentiments. I work for Coca Cola so I get to see the actions taken by people that wont be judged by customers and its disgusting. I limit my interactions with the stores and certainly my money. However when I do go into one, its typicall #1825 in Manassass on Sudley rd, and I ALWAYS OC to make a point. Im sure it will eventually come to a head and a manager or security will try to make me disarm or leave. But not to be racist, profile, or any other form of bigotry... I dont feel safe in that store without my firearm. While some would judge that statement on just the words presented, Id rather them look at how the people surrounding me change their attitutdes and demeanor once they see Kimber. We all understand that feeling and what will soon become an addage for this day and age "An armed society is a polite society."

    Sorry for the ramble. What Im really trying to say without looking like a moron is Hell yeah, protection for me and my loved ones.
    OC - Kimber Custom II - trijicon night sights, beveled mag well, and Wilson combat mags
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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    user wrote:
    Here's another wrinkle: your average WalMart shopper doesn't understand abstractions like "protecting rights". The average person wouldn't know a right if it came up and bit him, and certainly hasn't read the Constitution. Their idea of their government is whatever they got as seniors in high school. I see this as social fact. And, as Jesus said, "The poor you shall have with you always."

    So I prefer to couch my attitudes in more concrete, and hence understandable terms. Every American has the power to defend himself, his family, and his home. I'm interested in self-defense, not "gun rights".

    Sixteenth Century peasant-turned-samurai Musashi said, "Never fight on the enemy's battlefield." And when we talk about "gun rights" or "Second Amendment rights", we're talking about intellectual abstractions that can be argued by talking heads on television. When we talk about personal defense and self-protection, that's personal and concrete. Not arguable.

    (Besides, in Virginia, it's "Article I, Section 13 Rights".)

    Some folks have said, "Possession is nine-tenths of the law." I think that's wrong. In my view, possession is one-tenth; the other nine-tenths is how you characterize that possession. The story you tell with your choice of words will create pictures in the minds of others and once that imagery is created, it becomes a reality. (That's my secret to successful litigation, by the way, now you know.)

    So please stop fighting on the enemy's battlefield. Choose terms and phrases that support a favorable characterization of our right to self-defense.

    Here's an example: there are no "anti-gun states" - none of them have disarmed their police, or actually legislated away guns. Instead, I refer to Maryland, New York, New Jersey, Illinois, Massachussetts, and California as "pro-crime states." By inhibiting the ability of ordinary citizens' ability to defend themselves, they have created a climate that favors criminals. I don't see any question about that.

    "Gun rights" is a phrase Diane Sawyer would use. I say, "Self-defense."
    Sad but I'm afraid this is true. In my discussions with numerous people, even gun people, it has become rather clear to me that there is a wealth of ignorance in these areas among Americans. And I know how and why this is the case.

    One of the most common responses people on this site report when confronted by "citizens" who question them is, "I didn't know you could do that", or "That's not legal"... or comments of the kind. Granted, most of use don't know everything we can or cannot do. But the basics are better known by the people on this site than the average Joe, I would suspect.

    It is so hard to argue common sense with people who's stand is one of ignorance of these basic rights.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    Regular Member kennys's Avatar
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    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    You're just preaching to the choir here, Sir. I'm pretty sure everyone on here feels the same way.
    In response to this, I did not start the thread as having any issues in any open carry event I have ever intended. But in through them have seen the interest of people that are not aware.Sometimes in Various threads of various different sites I tend to visit I do see some that seem to miss the point and some just do not realize it. Sometimes it is not a bad idea to cover old bases.

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    Regular Member kennys's Avatar
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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    user wrote:
    Here's another wrinkle: your average WalMart shopper doesn't understand abstractions like "protecting rights". The average person wouldn't know a right if it came up and bit him, and certainly hasn't read the Constitution. Their idea of their government is whatever they got as seniors in high school. I see this as social fact. And, as Jesus said, "The poor you shall have with you always."
    I is so hard to argue common sense with people who's stand is one of ignorance of these basic rights.
    Than again it is as well sometimeshard to show common sense to some that are well aware of our rights but are oblivious to what goes on day and day around us, not linking it with law abiding citizens being able to legally and responsible protect themselves outside of the house. So often they think the police and security are enough while there are so many instances that prove this is incorrect. No offence to law enforcement, but they can not be every where at once. As well what can a un- armed security guard do.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    kennys wrote:
    This may have already have been tried I don’t know. Sometimes I seem to think that we need to put together a gun fair. I know for public service the police put on fairs about the affects of drunk driving to other safety awareness. If we could do something like this, it would be a good way to show the community how responsible and aware we are as well as other good things about us that typically the media and anti gun leave out.

    It could contain things from the basic gun safety course’s, to locks and storage. It could be as well a good introduction to VCDL, OCDO, and some of the many other gun friendly organizations. As well it could be informative to the public and business owners as to why a no gun establishment, actually makes it more dangerous to the un armed citizen. There are so many other things that could be added as well.

    Gun Safety Fair
    !

    kennys has an intriguing idea there. It is proactive rather than reactive too.

    Not sure how to drum up enough interest outside our community, but such would provide a unique opportunity to demonstrate and talk about various safety issues as well as the benefits derived from gun ownership.

    Information on laws, permits, training, organizations, dispelling myths.

    Demonstrations on safe handling. storage and transport.

    The possibilities for inclusion are endless.

    Yata hey

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I have a fair every time I go out to a public place like the movie theatre. I make sure to wear my VCDL Polo when i go. You would be very suprised how much the interest sparks over just a shirt identifying a group. I was approached and asked for immediate contact to VCDL and opencarry.org by a gentlemen named nick at Carmike Cinema.

    Great fellow and reloader. also a very avid 2nd ammendment enthusiast. plan to open carry with him this coming weekend and hit the range.

    Try wearing the shirt. peole do not hesitate to ask. trust me.

    Dan

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    kennys wrote:
    This may have already have been tried I don’t know. Sometimes I seem to think that we need to put together a gun fair. I know for public service the police put on fairs about the affects of drunk driving to other safety awareness. If we could do something like this, it would be a good way to show the community how responsible and aware we are as well as other good things about us that typically the media and anti gun leave out.

    It could contain things from the basic gun safety course’s, to locks and storage. It could be as well a good introduction to VCDL, OCDO, and some of the many other gun friendly organizations. As well it could be informative to the public and business owners as to why a no gun establishment, actually makes it more dangerous to the un armed citizen. There are so many other things that could be added as well.

    Gun Safety Fair
    !

    kennys has an intriguing idea there. It is proactive rather than reactive too.

    Not sure how to drum up enough interest outside our community, but such would provide a unique opportunity to demonstrate and talk about various safety issues as well as the benefits derived from gun ownership.

    Information on laws, permits, training, organizations, dispelling myths.

    Demonstrations on safe handling. storage and transport.

    The possibilities for inclusion are endless.

    Yata hey
    Carrying this to the next step: See if we could get a table at one of the "Safety Expos" or Safety Fairs that often take place in the area. If they're in public places like some I've attended as part of the Coast Guard Auxiliary, we could OC. If they are on base like NASA Langley, we wouldn't be able to.

    Maybe if we keep our eyes open for these events, we can start doing this. We need to come up with a "package" and set up as mentioned in the above posts. Malls sometimes have them, too. There are other places we could set up a table, charis and shelter like maybe Harborfest, Bay Days, Poquoson Work Boat Races, etc. I think if we all keep an eye open for big public events,we could do this. All we need is to get atable, chairs, tent shelter and brochures. A PowerPoint on alaptop, etc. As Grapeshot mentioned, the possibilities are endless!

    Yorktown Day is rapidly approaching... What BETTER way to sharewith the public? It may be too late to get in on that, though. Its only a few weeks away. At the very LEAST, we could have an OC gathering in Yorktown for the event.

    For those that don't know, YORKTOWN DAY is a local holiday. It commemorates the surrender of Lord Cornwallis to General Washington at Yorktown on OCT 19th, 1781. Some years, they even let the kids out of school. Banks and all government buildings are closed. Parade is downtown.
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  18. #18
    Regular Member kennys's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    kennys wrote:
    This may have already have been tried I don’t know. Sometimes I seem to think that we need to put together a gun fair. I know for public service the police put on fairs about the affects of drunk driving to other safety awareness. If we could do something like this, it would be a good way to show the community how responsible and aware we are as well as other good things about us that typically the media and anti gun leave out.

    It could contain things from the basic gun safety course’s, to locks and storage. It could be as well a good introduction to VCDL, OCDO, and some of the many other gun friendly organizations. As well it could be informative to the public and business owners as to why a no gun establishment, actually makes it more dangerous to the un armed citizen. There are so many other things that could be added as well.

    Gun Safety Fair
    !

    kennys has an intriguing idea there. It is proactive rather than reactive too.

    Not sure how to drum up enough interest outside our community, but such would provide a unique opportunity to demonstrate and talk about various safety issues as well as the benefits derived from gun ownership.

    Information on laws, permits, training, organizations, dispelling myths.

    Demonstrations on safe handling. storage and transport.

    The possibilities for inclusion are endless.

    Yata hey
    Once peoples eyes are open to the fact of the need to legally be able to defend your self, it often makes it easier for them to see that more laws only hinder them to be able to do so.

  19. #19
    Regular Member kennys's Avatar
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    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    Carrying this to the next step: See if we could get a table at one of the "Safety Expos" or Safety Fairs that often take place in the area. If they're in public places like some I've attended as part of the Coast Guard Auxiliary, we could OC. If they are on base like NASA Langley, we wouldn't be able to.

    Maybe if we keep our eyes open for these events, we can start doing this. We need to come up with a "package" and set up as mentioned in the above posts. Malls sometimes have them, too. There are other places we could set up a table, charis and shelter like maybe Harborfest, Bay Days, Poquoson Work Boat Races, etc. I think if we all keep an eye open for big public events,we could do this. All we need is to get atable, chairs, tent shelter and brochures. A PowerPoint on alaptop, etc. As Grapeshot mentioned, the possibilities are endless!

    Yorktown Day is rapidly approaching... What BETTER way to sharewith the public? It may be too late to get in on that, though. Its only a few weeks away. At the very LEAST, we could have an OC gathering in Yorktown for the event.

    For those that don't know, YORKTOWN DAY is a local holiday. It commemorates the surrender of Lord Cornwallis to General Washington at Yorktown on OCT 19th, 1781. Some years, they even let the kids out of school. Banks and all government buildings are closed. Parade is downtown.
    This would be a good first step. Skidmark had said somethin before about it would be nice to do this at the fair. Not sure how that could work out with their position on guns.

  20. #20
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Dominion Powerrecently contacted me about doing a gun safety talk at their recent public safety fair but I was out of town at the time. I think they do the safety fair each year.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    ProShooter wrote:
    Dominion Powerrecently contacted me about doing a gun safety talk at their recent public safety fair but I was out of town at the time. I think they do the safety fair each year.
    I've got a safety tip for them...Don't mess with my gate!



  22. #22
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Glock27Bill wrote:
    Just like all prejudices, folks have pre-conceived notions of who & what we are.
    Ah, but in an ironic twist you have essentially done to them what the Brady Antis do to us: projected an unfair and bigoted character onto their rights.

    Would you choose to have a drink while OC? Perhaps not. It does not mean you are not allowed to. Or they aren't.

    However, you are certainly entitled to eschew their company.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  23. #23
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    kennys wrote:
    I probably am going to open up a big can of worms by starting this thread, but I just want to make a statement and see what kind of comments I get.

    While Open Carry is being able to exercise our second amendment rights, I believe there is a little more to it than just that. So often the media and anti gun folk like to put us down as radical, as well as pass us off as less than responsible gun owners. We all know that is not true. Open carry to me is not only being able to exercise my right and protect my family and myself, but as well to show the public that we are people too. We have to project ourselves as reasonable and responsible and as well safety conscious, be friendly and far beyond all, law abiding. We are representatives of a right in which we cherish; we need to hold our ground while at the same time setting an example. I have spoke with many people that just really don’t know much about us. As well some wanted to know more because of issue friendly carries. We have to be our own media because they are seldom on our side.
    Agreed completely - again, from another choir member. I recently listened to a podcast by Massad Ayoob where he discussed how "Because I CAN!" is the wrong response to anyone asking about why I am OC'ing. He associated that with the attitude of a bully, or with one who is trying to intimidate. Yes, I can OC due to my right as a citizen, but innocent bystanders, or us Wal-Mart shoppers, may not be able to attach that response to the 2A.

    I do like the initial response being one of self defense. If justification or legal questions continue, I can then let the conversation naturally flow to the 2A and how that connects with the laws in Virginia.

    Thanks, kennys, for clarifying this!

  24. #24
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    kennys wrote:
    This may have already have been tried I don’t know. Sometimes I seem to think that we need to put together a gun fair. I know for public service the police put on fairs about the affects of drunk driving to other safety awareness. If we could do something like this, it would be a good way to show the community how responsible and aware we are as well as other good things about us that typically the media and anti gun leave out.

    It could contain things from the basic gun safety course’s, to locks and storage. It could be as well a good introduction to VCDL, OCDO, and some of the many other gun friendly organizations. As well it could be informative to the public and business owners as to why a no gun establishment, actually makes it more dangerous to the un armed citizen. There are so many other things that could be added as well.
    Now I *wish* I could have found a local event like this when I wanted to learn more about owning and carrying a handgun in the commonwealth.

    Could this be a combination of both educating the general public and targeted training for new gun owners or those that are deciding to own and carry?

    When I finally decided that I needed to own and carry a handgun, I had questions about how to select a gun, what the purchase process was, where to find a range, how to apply for a CHP, where is it legal to OC/CC, why was there a negative perception by some regarding owning and carrying guns and what kind of training was available.

    For those that come from a hunting background where firearms is a natural aspect of life, this probably isn't that big a deal. I was new, though, and I spent a *lot*of time searching around the Internet, asking friends, calling gun shops...it all eventually came together, but it was a bit overwhelming at first.

    I would bet the local NRA, VCDL, OCDO reps/members/volunteers could come together to make a great event!

  25. #25
    Regular Member kennys's Avatar
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    Regular_Joe wrote:
    kennys wrote:
    This may have already have been tried I don’t know. Sometimes I seem to think that we need to put together a gun fair. I know for public service the police put on fairs about the affects of drunk driving to other safety awareness. If we could do something like this, it would be a good way to show the community how responsible and aware we are as well as other good things about us that typically the media and anti gun leave out.

    It could contain things from the basic gun safety course’s, to locks and storage. It could be as well a good introduction to VCDL, OCDO, and some of the many other gun friendly organizations. As well it could be informative to the public and business owners as to why a no gun establishment, actually makes it more dangerous to the un armed citizen. There are so many other things that could be added as well.
    Now I *wish* I could have found a local event like this when I wanted to learn more about owning and carrying a handgun in the commonwealth.

    Could this be a combination of both educating the general public and targeted training for new gun owners or those that are deciding to own and carry?

    When I finally decided that I needed to own and carry a handgun, I had questions about how to select a gun, what the purchase process was, where to find a range, how to apply for a CHP, where is it legal to OC/CC, why was there a negative perception by some regarding owning and carrying guns and what kind of training was available.

    For those that come from a hunting background where firearms is a natural aspect of life, this probably isn't that big a deal. I was new, though, and I spent a *lot*of time searching around the Internet, asking friends, calling gun shops...it all eventually came together, but it was a bit overwhelming at first.

    I would bet the local NRA, VCDL, OCDO reps/members/volunteers could come together to make a great event!

    I was in the same boat when I first started carrying. I owned guns as well I supported our second amendment rights. I was safety oriented and in my opinion proficient enough to use my weapons if a need arose for self defense. In saying that, what I did know than, and the understanding I had about guns didn’t hold a candle to what I know now. For that I have to give the credit to many of the OCDL people as well as VCDL. I learn something new every day, every day at any age it is a new learning experience.

    In saying that, I have not only seen interest in the general public in some of our open carry events with groups, but as well when I go some ware with my family without a group. I am not one that is good speaking with people; I guess you could say that is not my forte. I am slowly working myself out of what I would consider my safety zone, and am trying to do this to be more affective. Even though I am not good talking to people that I don’t know, I believe in some cases I am affective.

    Where I kind of really feel ineffective and some times we can’t avoid it is when we make someone feel uncomfortable. Not that I would change my attitude about my open carry, or even our personal right to protection, but that’s where I feel we need to do more along the line of public awareness. A customer that understands OC is less likely to complain causing us all less of a negative issue and more on the line on positive facts when we have to confront management at certain places. Some people just don’t understand what it’s all about. The media as well as the Brady bunch and so forth just portray guns for bad. As well their main tool is un-educated citizens. I believe we as the many can change that.

    So many deaths occur with automobiles daily. Automobiles as well are used by criminals;

    While in the commission of a felony, transport of dangerous weapons, even as weapons of mass destruction. Currant laws on the books even allow repeat DUI offenders to get a work release to buy more booze, while the ones with back child support issues need the money to actually pay their debt. They seem to treat cars as indispensible, while I believe guns for self defense are certainly not. If I had to make a choice I would gladly give up my car for a horse and hold on to my weapons.

    Not meaning to be offensive to any one. IMOA yes to some this may be preaching to the quire. But sometimes when the quire sings the same songs day in and day out they loose their appeal and effectiveness. I am just looking fordifferent songs that could be used to best benefit us as awhole, without compromising any thing we stand for.Things that as well could be used as a useful tool to our pro-gun lobby, as well as putting to rest some of the misconceptions by the anti gun agenda.There are many now that show us in a good light and I don't want to discredit them, I just want to see if we can take it up to the next level.


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