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Thread: Dumb Question

  1. #1
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    Is there such a thing as lawsuit protection insurance for a person with a CHL? Some guy I know that is a bit windy swears there is, but I never heard of such a thing.



    jim

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    No, I don't think so, some places however have protections from civil suits built into their castle doctrine.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    thx997303 wrote:
    No, I don't think so, some places however have protections from civil suits built into their castle doctrine.
    Castle Doctrine is not Civil Immunity. Go to Wikipedia and look them up for yourself.

    As for shooter's insurance, I doubt that anybody would underwrite that no matter how many zeroes before the decimal you offered to pay. There are various prepaid legal services available. Some have been hawked about here so you might use that phrase in the search function.

    IMHO shooters need replacement value property insurance that does not require submitting more than the basic info to the insurance company - such as being able to omit the last 4 digits of serial numbers, confidentiality clauses that prevent property insurers from exchanging info with health insurers and vice-versa, and prohibitions on exchanges of info with the police except in the case of a crime reported as part of the insurance claim.

    If you carry a firearm for professional reasons you can ask your insurance broker about professional tort insurance. They might be able to cover you for a reasonable premium. Most folks I know that carry tort insurance have it as a rider on their homeowner's policy.

    Hope this helps.

    Also, welcome to OCDO. You might want to update your profile with at least the state where you are, so we know who to refer you to for stuff better handled at the local level.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
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    Talk to your insurance agent regarding a "Personal Umbrella Policy". A PUP is designed to cover/protect the owner from situations where he becomes legally obligated to pay damages to another person through his own lawful acts.

    Umbrella policies will cover the cost of legal defense on top of the specified $$$ amount of protection (million dollar policies aren't very expensive). The insurance company will retain the right to settle the case with the person suing you, but they will protect you in a civil case. Worthy of note, 99% of insurance companies will deny your claim under the Umbrella if you commit a criminal act where your claim occurs.



    Regarding cost, you have to ask yourself what it's worth. The family of the perp you shot might get your house in a civil case. They might get your cars. They might get the cash you've been saving for that family trip. Do you want to pay the civil claims yourself or have a insurance company do it for you?

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    jfrey123 wrote:
    Talk to your insurance agent regarding a "Personal Umbrella Policy". A PUP is designed to cover/protect the owner from situations where he becomes legally obligated to pay damages to another person through his own lawful acts.

    Umbrella policies will cover the cost of legal defense on top of the specified $$$ amount of protection (million dollar policies aren't very expensive). The insurance company will retain the right to settle the case with the person suing you, but they will protect you in a civil case. Worthy of note, 99% of insurance companies will deny your claim under the Umbrella if you commit a criminal act where your claim occurs.



    Regarding cost, you have to ask yourself what it's worth. The family of the perp you shot might get your house in a civil case. They might get your cars. They might get the cash you've been saving for that family trip. Do you want to pay the civil claims yourself or have a insurance company do it for you?
    People sue everyone for everything these days. You could get into a fender bender on the way home from work and someone might sue you for whiplash.An Umbrella Policyshould definitely besomething to consider for those that haven't.
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    jfrey123 wrote:
    Talk to your insurance agent regarding a "Personal Umbrella Policy". A PUP is designed to cover/protect the owner from situations where he becomes legally obligated to pay damages to another person through his own lawful acts.

    Umbrella policies will cover the cost of legal defense on top of the specified $$$ amount of protection (million dollar policies aren't very expensive). The insurance company will retain the right to settle the case with the person suing you, but they will protect you in a civil case.
    This is the way to do it, for sure. It's the responsible way to deal with the vagaries of civil liability exposure that gun carriers and users are always subject to.


    jfrey123 wrote:
    Worthy of note, 99% of insurance companies will deny your claim under the Umbrella if you commit a criminal act where your claim occurs.
    This restriction, obviously equitable and logical, should have no impact on the gun carrying/gun using folks that our fine community represents ...since no one would ever think of doing anything illegal, unintentially or intentionally, in the use of a gun.

    Right?




    jfrey123 wrote:
    Regarding cost, you have to ask yourself what it's worth. The family of the perp you shot might get your house in a civil case. They might get your cars. They might get the cash you've been saving for that family trip. Do you want to pay the civil claims yourself or have a insurance company do it for you?
    Excellent explanation, j123. It really makes undeniable sense to be insured in this manner, even in states that provide for a presumption of immunity under a castle doctrine law. Legal immunity doesn't mean one cannot be sued...

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    Lone Star Veteran Ian's Avatar
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    Umbrella coverage is actually a good idea, I'm going to look into this.

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    skidmark wrote:
    thx997303 wrote:
    No, I don't think so, some places however have protections from civil suits built into their castle doctrine.
    Castle Doctrine is not Civil Immunity.* Go to Wikipedia and look them up for yourself.

    As for shooter's insurance, I doubt that anybody would underwrite that no matter how many zeroes before the decimal you offered to pay.* There are various prepaid legal services available.* Some have been hawked about here so you might use that phrase in the search function.

    IMHO shooters need replacement value property insurance that does not require submitting more than the basic info to the insurance company - such as being able to omit the last 4 digits of serial numbers, confidentiality clauses that prevent property insurers from exchanging info with health insurers and vice-versa, and prohibitions on exchanges of info with the police except in the case of a crime reported as part of the insurance claim.

    If you carry a firearm for professional reasons you can ask your insurance broker about professional tort insurance.* They might be able to cover you for a reasonable premium.* Most folks I know that carry tort insurance have it as a rider on their homeowner's policy.

    Hope this helps.

    Also, welcome to OCDO.* You might want to update your profile with at least the state where you are, so we know who to refer you to for stuff better handled at the local level.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    Skidmark, may I ask exactly where I equated civil immunity with castle doctrine?

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    NRA offers a self defense insurance - http://www.locktonrisk.com/nrains/defense.htm

    The Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network is also good to go for self defense legal matters - http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/
    Quote Originally Posted by Open Carry.org Member View Post
    I really disgree with this one! That means that we can have any yahoo running around with a gun with out the proper training. This really scares the hell out of me. Just my two-cents!
    Quote Originally Posted by KansasMustang View Post
    Joe Schmedlap out there with a loaded weapon thinking he's going to deter crime and he's not even trained to fire his weapon safely just kinda makes my hair on the back of my neck stand up.

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    thx997303 wrote:
    No, I don't think so, some places however have protections from civil suits built into their castle doctrine.
    A Castle Doctrine (also known as a Castle Law or a Defense of Habitation Law) is an American legal concept arising from English Common Law[1][/suP] that designates one's place of residence (or, in some states, any place legally occupied, such as one's car or place of work) as a place in which one enjoys protection from illegal trespassing and violent attack. It then goes on to give a person the legal right to use deadly force to defend that place (his/her "castle"), and/or any other innocent persons legally inside it, from violent attack or an intrusion which may lead to violent attack. In a legal context, therefore, use of deadly force which actually results in death may be defended as justifiable homicide under the Castle Doctrine.

    IMMUNITY: In addition to providing a valid defense in criminal law, many versions of the Castle Doctrine, particularly those with a "Stand-Your-Ground clause", also have a clause which provides immunity from any lawsuit filed on behalf of the assailant for damages/injury resulting from the use of lethal force. Without this clause, it is possible for an assailant to sue for medical bills, property damage, disability, and pain and suffering as a result of the injuries inflicted by the defender, or for their next-of-kin to sue for wrongful death in the case of a fatality. Even if successfully refuted, the defendant (the homeowner/defender) must often pay thousands of dollars in legal costs as a result of such lawsuits, and thus without immunity, such civil action could be used for revenge against a defender acting lawfully.

    You are correct in saying that some states have it "built in" to castle doctrine,I think Skidmark was just insuring that the two didnt get confused and mixed up.

  11. #11
    McX
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    McX wrote:
    Would a personal liability policy (umbrella) apply?
    The answer is "maybe". It will depend on the specific terms of the policy.

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    McX wrote:
    Would a personal liability policy (umbrella) apply?
    Answer is maybe. Talk with your current insurance provider. An umbrella is supposed to kick in anytime you become liable to injury or loss to another person.

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    Gents



    Thanks for the info! We have some protection from law suits here in Texas for a justifiable shooting, but I'm not sure how much. I have to look into this further.



    It's looking like the NRA ins. with an umbrella might be the way to go.



    Thanks again

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    Gents



    Thanks for the info! We have some protection from law suits here in Texas for a justifiable shooting, but I'm not sure how much. I have to look into this further.



    It's looking like the NRA ins. with an umbrella might be the way to go.



    Thanks again

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