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  1. #1
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    Hello Everyone. I've been watching this forum for awile and finally decided to make an account and introduce myself. My name is Dennis and I live in Lansing. I have open carried a few times but mainly just around my neighborhood and to the local gas station. No exciting stories to convey so far..as it should be.LOL. Anyways, I finally decided to post because I was taking a shuttle to an msu football game the other day and I noticed the sign on the Cata bus that said that all weapons are prohibited. I wasn't carrying at the time obviously because I was on my way to the stadium. I do hold a michigan CPL. I was wondering if anyone has had any contact with the Capital Area Transportation Authority on their rules concerning concealed or open carry. I have just sent them an email asking for clarification on their policy and if I don't hear back in a few days I will follow it up with a phone call. I can find nothing to prohibit carrying on a bus in the laws but I suspect this is just a policy of CATA. I am not clear if they are a private company or actually an entity of the city of Lansing. If anyone could shed any light on any of these questions I'd be very appreciative.

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    Welcome to the board!!

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    Welcome to the forums.

  4. #4
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    welcome abourd

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    Regular Member Jblack44's Avatar
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    Welcome! I'm sure you'll find that there is lots of info here about OC. Lot's of good people as well.
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If you have a gun, what in the hell do you have to be paranoid for." Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch

  6. #6
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    welcome. and to pitch in 2cents, i think they get subsdies (sp), but if you remember the big stink about getting money in the news, i think they are lansing "owned".

  7. #7
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    Hay sense ive been here there has been no meets in lansing anyone up for 1?????

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    cabman1 wrote:
    Hay sense ive been here there has been no meets in lansing anyone up for 1?????
    I know there has been at least 1, maybe 2.

    We should pick some where new.

  9. #9
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    well I say the same someone pick some where!!!

  10. #10
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    I haven't heard anything back from Cata yet. I'll give em a couple days and then I'll call em. Maybe after we find out what their policy is we can arrange a meet up in Lansing and we can all take a little bus ride. I wanted to thank everyone for the welcome too btw.

  11. #11
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    Found this on the Cata website today.

    "For your safety and comfort, CATA does not permit these activities on any CATA vehicle or propertyincluding the CATA Transportation Center (CTC), shelters, and bus stops. "



    "Violations may result in your removal from CATA vehicles or property. It may also result in banning from CATA property, loss of riding privileges and possible arrest."

    Included in these rules is this:

    "Weapons of any kind, or possession of any hazardous material or item"

  12. #12
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    Still no response from the Capital Area Transportation Authority. I left a message for their Ceo/ Executive Director Sandy Draggoo and as soon as I hear anything I'll post it. I'm hoping to get a meeting to discuss policy changes on their buses but I know thats a long shot. They do have open meetings called "listening sessions" but the next one isn't until Jan 13, 2010. If I can't get a meeting with anyone at CATA I might just go speak at one of those meetings. Might be a good time for an Open Carry event.

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    Just looked up the weapons policy for the Eaton County Transportation Authority and it also has a policy banning all weapons on their buses.

  14. #14
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    Finally received an email response from a Cata representative. It was short and only addressed part of my question. Here is what I was sent:

    The rule on weapons does not apply to a concealed pistol carried lawfully by an individual who has a valid permit to carry a concealed pistol.

    Yours truly,


    Dawn Williams

    CATA

    There is of course no mention of open carry. I'm going to have to contact them again I guess to address open carry and suggest that the signs on their buses should reflect that only Illegal weapons are prohibited.

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    I sent CATA a reply asking for clarification on what their policy is in reference to OPEN carry. I included links to the applicable laws and contact info for SGT. Deasy of the Michigan State Police in case they had any questions. I also suggested that they change their policy and their signs to say that ILLEGAL weapons are banned and not : "Weapons of any kind, or possession of any hazardous material or item"

    We'll see how long it takes to respond this time.

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    welcome to the forum!

    And technically even if you are carrying openly as soon as you step on the bus you are carrying concealed in the eyes of the law.

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    maahes wrote:
    welcome to the forum!

    And technically even if you are carrying openly as soon as you step on the bus you are carrying concealed in the eyes of the law.
    Could you please quote me the law that on public transportation that that is true. Not saying you are wrong but I haven't seen anything to support that opinion. I'm not sure that the same rules would apply as in a private vehicle but thats what I'm partially trying to find out. Also, their policy also applies to all CATA property including bus stations and bus stops. So for instance if I was to go pick up a friend coming in from out of town at the bus station in Lansing at night, Not the best part of town I might add, would I be able to open carry in the bus station? Another thing to ponder is since you can openly carry in a vehicle with a CPL would this also apply to a city bus?

  18. #18
    Regular Member drew68's Avatar
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    750.227 Concealed weapons; carrying; penalty.



    Sec. 227.

    (1) A person shall not carry a dagger, dirk, stiletto, a double-edged nonfolding stabbing instrument of any length, or any other dangerous weapon, except a hunting knife adapted and carried as such, concealed on or about his or her person, or whether concealed or otherwise in any vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business or on other land possessed by the person.

    (2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.

    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or by a fine of not more than $2,500.00.


    History: 1931, Act 328, Eff. Sept. 18, 1931 ;-- CL 1948, 750.227 ;-- Am. 1973, Act 206, Eff. Mar. 29, 1974 ;-- Am. 1986, Act 8, Eff. July 1, 1986
    Constitutionality: The double jeopardy protection against multiple punishment for the same offense is a restriction on a court's ability to impose punishment in excess of that intended by the Legislature, not a limit on the Legislature's power to define crime and fix punishment. People v. Sturgis, 427 Mich. 392, 397 N.W.2d 783 (1986).


    I put the bold emphasis on the word occupied as I think it pertains to this situation. My feeling here is that your confusing public and private transportation with the law as it pertains to a vehicle. I don't think you'll find any laws that make a distinction between public or private, just laws pertaining to vehicles in general. I am not a lawyer and I don't play on on tv. Hope this helps.

  19. #19
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    Thanks Drew. That helped me clarify thatcarrying on a bus is the same as in a vehicle. I guess the only way you would be safe open carrying on a bus would be if you had a CPL.

  20. #20
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    Denny wrote:
    Thanks Drew. That helped me clarify thatcarrying on a bus is the same as in a vehicle. I guess the only way you would be safe open carrying on a bus would be if you had a CPL.
    That is true. You can't carry a loaded weapon in any vehicle without a CPL.

    I suppose you could carry a handgun unloaded locked in a case while on a bus without a CPL. I'm not sure on this, but I can't find anything that would prevent it.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Someone should not point out to CATA that by saying they allow concealed pistols from CPL holders on their buses that they allow CPL holders to carry pistols exposed, as the second they get on that bus, it is legally concealed.

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    northofnowhere wrote:
    Someone should not point out to CATA that by saying they allow concealed pistols from CPL holders on their buses that they allow CPL holders to carry pistols exposed, as the second they get on that bus, it is legally concealed.
    Did You mean to say that someone should point that out? I'm thinking the "not" was a typo in your question, correct?

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    The not was not a typo It was sarcasm, as telling CATA the information would most likely lead to an unfavorable outcome for CPL holders.

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    northofnowhere wrote:
    The not was not a typo It was sarcasm, as telling CATA the information would most likely lead to an unfavorable outcome for CPL holders.
    Hmm, Sarcasm is easy to misinterpret in these posts. So let me get this clear. The point of that post was sarcasm and you are not saying that you think that inquiring about their policies and trying to get them changed so that they are in more in line with the second amendment is a mistake?

    Anyways, all that has happened so far is a request for clarification on what their policy actually is in regards to concealed and open carry. They have said concealed is ok but I'll be interested to see what their response would be to someone with a cpl open carrying on the bus. I don't thinkopening a dialog with them and trying to get them to change their policy is a mistake. If we were afraid to speak out for our right to keep and bear arms for fear of tighter restrictions then thats exactly what we would get is tighter restrictions in my opinion. We only get to keep the rights we stand up and fight for.

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    The point was humor. I am sorry you do not see the humor in them posting a sign saying weapons are not permitted, then sending you a letter stating concealed carry with a CPL is legal, especially considering openly carrying a handgun on their bus would be legally considered concealed carry.

    I did not attack you, your methods, or your goal. I was mocking a company who clearly has no clue what they are talking about.

    Damn man, lighten up a little :P

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