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Thread: Unincorporated

  1. #1
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    Where can i find out if an area is unincorporated? Ramona, ca. specifically their chamber of commerce webpage and other info i've found says that they are but i dont wanna take a risk out there.
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    How do you mean sir?
    Unincorporated into a near by city or township?


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    If you're asking about unincorporated territory if you can carry loaded or not, be aware that even then you still cannot carry loaded unless it is legal to shoot there. That includes any area the county has made shooting illegal, any area within 150 yards from any occupied structures and any roads, among many other exceptions. Unless you are out in the middle of national forest or BLM land, or on private property, it probably isn't legal to carry loaded.
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    wewd wrote:
    If you're asking about unincorporated territory if you can carry loaded or not, be aware that even then you still cannot carry loaded unless it is legal to shoot there. That includes any area the county has made shooting illegal, any area within 150 yards from any occupied structures and any roads, among many other exceptions. Unless you are out in the middle of national forest or BLM land, or on private property, it probably isn't legal to carry loaded.
    Thats what i mean, it's mostly rural area alot of open space and its just a couple miles south of cleveland national forest. The question is where do i find out the official information about there, I.E. if its lawful to discharge a firearm in the outer areas
    "Sooner or later we all must die. Warriors choose to do so on their feet, standing between their enemies and those they hold dear. With a weapon in their hands. Cowards choose to do so on their bellies. Unarmed."
    - Dave Gell (inspired by author David Weber)

    "The tragic history of civilian disarmament cries a warning against any systematic attempts to render innocent citizens ill-equipped to defend themselves from tyrant terrorists, despots or oppressive majorities,"
    - Daniel Schmutter

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    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
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    For the purposes of 12031, incorporated territory refers to incorporated municipalities, in other words, cities. Most small towns in California are incorporated cities, but not all. Within city limits is within incorporated territory. Outside city limits is in unincorporated territory.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unincorporated_area


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    Thats exactly what i needed to know thank you


    MudCamper wrote:
    For the purposes of 12031, incorporated territory refers to incorporated municipalities, in other words, cities. Most small towns in California are incorporated cities, but not all. Within city limits is within incorporated territory. Outside city limits is in unincorporated territory.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unincorporated_area
    "Sooner or later we all must die. Warriors choose to do so on their feet, standing between their enemies and those they hold dear. With a weapon in their hands. Cowards choose to do so on their bellies. Unarmed."
    - Dave Gell (inspired by author David Weber)

    "The tragic history of civilian disarmament cries a warning against any systematic attempts to render innocent citizens ill-equipped to defend themselves from tyrant terrorists, despots or oppressive majorities,"
    - Daniel Schmutter

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    I'm not saying that you are, but fie on shame on thee if thoust take wikipedia for advice on this one.

    What mudcamper says is true to the best of my knowledge.
    It is however, difficult, to find a place that you can discharge a firearm, without it having the potential to be illegal.
    For example, we used to go out to the dykes to do a little shooting, now a days, you take a shot and its on someonelses land, private property, albeit unincorporated private property.
    And oh farmer have mercy on your life if you hit a cow.

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    heliopolissolutions wrote:
    I'm not saying that you are, but fie on shame on thee if thoust take wikipedia for advice on this one.

    What mudcamper says is true to the best of my knowledge.
    It is however, difficult, to find a place that you can discharge a firearm, without it having the potential to be illegal.
    For example, we used to go out to the dykes to do a little shooting, now a days, you take a shot and its on someonelses land, private property, albeit unincorporated private property.
    And oh farmer have mercy on your life if you hit a cow.
    Private property in unincorporated territory does not trigger the prohibited area language of 12031.

    helio, I see that you are new here. Have you read the information available on http://www.californiaopencarry.org/ yet? Lot's of good legal info to get started on.


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    MudCamper wrote:
    heliopolissolutions wrote:
    I'm not saying that you are, but fie on shame on thee if thoust take wikipedia for advice on this one.

    What mudcamper says is true to the best of my knowledge.
    It is however, difficult, to find a place that you can discharge a firearm, without it having the potential to be illegal.
    For example, we used to go out to the dykes to do a little shooting, now a days, you take a shot and its on someonelses land, private property, albeit unincorporated private property.
    And oh farmer have mercy on your life if you hit a cow.
    Private property in unincorporated territory does not trigger the prohibited area language of 12031.

    helio, I see that you are new here. Have you read the information available on http://www.californiaopencarry.org/ yet? Lot's of good legal info to get started on.
    I have, obviously, these codes and laws take a while to read, but I am working on it: education is good.

    Code:
     (h) Nothing in this section shall prevent any person engaged in
    any lawful business, including a nonprofit organization, or any
    officer, employee, or agent authorized by that person for lawful
    purposes connected with that business, from having a loaded firearm
    within the person's place of business, or any person in lawful
    possession of private property from having a loaded firearm on that
    property.
    Well goody gumdrops, but if I were to discharge my firearm in unincorporated land, and that bullet were to cross over private property or potentially damage private property, including cattle, trees or what not; I might find myself in some degree of trouble, and be unable to claim that I had made a lawful discharge of my firearm? Right?
    It might not violate 12031, but I'm guessing theres plenty of room for trouble in firing in unincorporated areas.
    Then again the same could be said for BLM lands.

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    wewd wrote:
    If you're asking about unincorporated territory if you can carry loaded or not, be aware that even then you still cannot carry loaded unless it is legal to shoot there. That includes any area the county has made shooting illegal, any area within 150 yards from any occupied structures and any roads, among many other exceptions. Unless you are out in the middle of national forest or BLM land, or on private property, it probably isn't legal to carry loaded.
    Um, no. See People v. Knight, and is progeny, and the 1968 AG opinion. Roads are not off necessarily limits to loaded open carry even if state law bans shooting on roads. County ordiances are the key.

    The 150 yards from structures ban - where did that come from? There is one post Knight case where a man carried a loaded gun into banks and the court held this not to be a violation of the loaded open carry ban.

    I'm not sayin' that folks should carry openly while loaded lightly - you have to know were you are and what the local laws are. But let's not create road blocks to real open carry (of loaded handguns) where none exist.

    And by the way, National Parks become great places to open carry come February 2010

  11. #11
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    PC 12031:

    (a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when
    he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a
    vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an
    incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a
    prohibited area of unincorporated territory.


    (f) As used in this section, "prohibited area" means any place
    where it is unlawful to discharge a weapon.

    I have looked at the county codes for a number of counties in Southern California and they all seem to have the 150 yard discharge law, which is borrowed from the state Fish & Game code. The F&G code only applies when hunting, but county codes apply to any kind of shooting. If the OP wants to carry loaded, he needs to be extremely careful in his research of exactly where it is legal and where it is not legal (which would be most places).
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    heliopolissolutions wrote:
    Well goody gumdrops, but if I were to discharge my firearm in unincorporated land, and that bullet were to cross over private property or potentially damage private property, including cattle, trees or what not; I might find myself in some degree of trouble, and be unable to claim that I had made a lawful discharge of my firearm? Right?
    Anytime and anywhere you discharge your firearm in a self-defense situation, you will be facing these kinds of problems. You are responsible for every bullet. But the fact that you are discharging your firearm in self defense means you have much much more serious problems than that to deal with than this. I think you are getting distracted. None of this is relevant to incorporated vs unincorporated discussions.


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    wewd wrote:
    I have looked at the county codes for a number of counties in Southern California and they all seem to have the 150 yard discharge law, which is borrowed from the state Fish & Game code. The F&G code only applies when hunting, but county codes apply to any kind of shooting. If the OP wants to carry loaded, he needs to be extremely careful in his research of exactly where it is legal and where it is not legal (which would be most places).
    Not all counties have this sort of ordinance, and the ones that do have varying numerical values. (E.g. Stanisluas county only bans shooting within 50 yards of an occupied dwelling, and exempts you if you have permission from the owner/tenant.)

    Let's be careful to qualify our statements so as not to mislead the newbs. For all we know there's some county out there with a 200-yard rule. If we aren't careful, someone might take that 150-yard rule for granted and get in trouble. Local laws will ALWAYS vary, and require individual research.
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    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    I just checked Riverside county and they have a 300 yard rule. So it definitely varies. The only time I have carried a loaded sidearm in public is when out hunting on public lands. There are too many variables right now so UOC is the only practical way to carry unless you can be absolutely sure that you are in a legal zone.

    Riverside County Code, Ordinance 514, Section 3:
    It shall be unlawful in either the Western Zone or the Eastern Zone for
    any person to shoot or discharge any firearm within 300 yards of any occupied or
    unoccupied building, house or dwelling place, without the written consent of the owner or
    occupant thereof, or any shotgun within 150 yards, or any other firearm within 300 yards of
    any corral, paddock, feed yard, dairy, barn or other farm building where cattle, horses,
    sheep or other animals are raised, milked, fed, trained, housed or confined, without the
    written consent of the owner or operator thereof, or within 300 yards of any park, public
    campgrounds, or state riding and hiking trail, or for any person to shoot or discharge within
    300 yards of any public highway, public road or public street any firearm other than a
    shotgun used in lawfully hunting game pursuant to a valid hunting license.
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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    wewd wrote:
    If you're asking about unincorporated territory if you can carry loaded or not, be aware that even then you still cannot carry loaded unless it is legal to shoot there. That includes any area the county has made shooting illegal, any area within 150 yards from any occupied structures and any roads, among many other exceptions. Unless you are out in the middle of national forest or BLM land, or on private property, it probably isn't legal to carry loaded.
    The actual code that deals with 150 yards from any occupied structures or roads has the word "WHILE HUNTING" at the end of that particular restriction. So it is not illegal to shoot within 150 yards of a building unless said shooting is done while hunting.

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