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Thread: Calling all school zone maps!

  1. #1
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    I'm looking at the school zone issue and I'm interested in whatever school zone maps are available from the communities and police departments across WI. If anyone has a map they can send me, please do. To avoid getting 10,000 copies of the Milwaukee (or any other) map, please post in this thread when you have sent me one and say what jurisdiction it covers. I'll try to keep a running list in this post, so please check back to the original post in this thread to see if your jurisdiction is on the list before sending. Right now, however, at nearly 6 p.m. EDT on 9-28-09, I have zero maps, so have at it. Your response is appreciated. My contact information should be pretty well known, but you can find it at the end of the complaint if you don't already know it. Emails of scanned images are preferred over faxes or snail mail.

    List so far:

    Chilton
    Milwaukee

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Zero maps? You should have the Milwaukee one already.

    Just in case: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/attachment.php?id=6377

    Can we send requests to every PD we can think of to get these for you? If they have one it should be public info right?

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    Brass Magnet wrote:
    Zero maps? You should have the Milwaukee one already.

    Just in case: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/attachment.php?id=6377

    Can we send requests to every PD we can think of to get these for you? If they have one it should be public info right?
    I knew Milwaukee was out there somewhere, but I didn't have it, so thanks.

    I'd be happy to get as many as possible, so ask away. If they have one, it should be public (subject to open records requests).

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    Just to clarify something. When you are measuring the 1000 FT Zone, do you simply start from the center of the school or do you start from the edges of the school property?

    Also, This may be a no brainer, but I have never seen this until now. If a parochial school has signs posted on the fence that say, "Private Property no trespassing," does this effect the zone in anyway?

    I am currently making a map for Chilton and I just want to be clear on what you are looking for. Do you want maps for such a small town? Or are you looking for the larger towns?

    Thanks for all your efforts jrm.

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    As far as I know can figure out (and IANAL), the 1000' should start from the edge of the property and go as the crow flies. School zones should only include land of a school, but not property of a school district which does not contain a school. The definitions in the statute are crystal clear (when are they ever?), so you won't find my pussing the issue.



    Oh, and Mr. Monroe, thanks for you service to thecitizens of this state! Keep up the good work.
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 - "A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but the fool's heart to the left."

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    J.Gleason wrote:
    Just to clarify something. When you are measuring the 1000 FT Zone, do you simply start from the center of the school or do you start from the edges of the school property?

    Also, This may be a no brainer, but I have never seen this until now. If a parochial school has signs posted on the fence that say, "Private Property no trespassing," does this effect the zone in anyway?

    I am currently making a map for Chilton and I just want to be clear on what you are looking for. Do you want maps for such a small town? Or are you looking for the larger towns?

    Thanks for all your efforts jrm.
    JG,

    The 1,000 feet extends from the school "grounds" in every direction -- it is not just a 1,000-foot radius circle from the center of the school (although I have seen some places that draw their maps that way). Thus, given that most property lines are somewhat "squarish," the zones should not really be depicted by circles. They they are, that is an estimate of some sort. If that's what's already available from your government, though, that's fine. Oh, and if you send me maps, please let me know the source (got it from clerk of city X, drew it yourself, etc.).

    The school zone does not apply to private property off the school grounds, but it does apply to private schools. If you are drawing your own map, it should include all public and private schools, 1-12 (for some reason K is not included).

    Chilton would be fine. I'd like a mix of big and small towns.

    Thanks to everyone who contributes to this project.

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    Here is the Chilton Wisconsin School Zone Map

    The Red Boundary Marks the outer limit of the school zone.
    The Yellow Boundary Marks the outer limit of the school property.

    [img]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Jim/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/img][img]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Jim/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpg[/img]

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    This was actually pretty simple to do. At first I was going to use Smart draw software. That was kind of a hassle. So I just captured the photo off of Google Earth and then copied it to power point. There I used the line tool as I was measuring with Google earth. Didn't take very long at all and it is actually pretty accurate.

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    Anybody else getting one?

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    I am almost done with the Appleton map. I will post it and send you a copy.

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    Anything available on Racine?

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    Gimme time, brother

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    Does anyone in Appleton know if Houdini Elementary school still exists?

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    Yes it looks to be open still. K-6.

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    I have the location on Google earth but there is no building.

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    Great, Google crashed on me so I will have to start over on Appleton. Sorry for the inconvenience.

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    I've already asked Madison Police Department for a school zone map and they said they don't know of one. (Which isn't quite the same as saying they don't have one, but if they do, they don't know about it.)

    This leads to a rhetorical question that I find interesting. If the police have no map, and have to conduct some sort of research, e.g., take some measurements, to determine whether a person is within a school zone... how is the individual supposed to know if they're in a school zone more easily than the police would know?
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    Shotgun wrote:
    I've already asked Madison Police Department for a school zone map and they said they don't know of one. (Which isn't quite the same as saying they don't have one, but if they do, they don't know about it.)

    This leads to a rhetorical question that I find interesting. If the police have no map, and have to conduct some sort of research, e.g., take some measurements, to determine whether a person is within a school zone... how is the individual supposed to know if they're in a school zone more easily than the police would know?
    And my guess would be that even if their map says you are OK, if it happens to be wrong, you are still a criminal.

    Just out of curiousity is a JD facility a school? Juveniles certainly go to school there so I would think it qualifies. Does the Milwaukee map show it as a school?

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    ilbob wrote:
    Shotgun wrote:
    I've already asked Madison Police Department for a school zone map and they said they don't know of one. (Which isn't quite the same as saying they don't have one, but if they do, they don't know about it.)

    This leads to a rhetorical question that I find interesting. If the police have no map, and have to conduct some sort of research, e.g., take some measurements, to determine whether a person is within a school zone... how is the individual supposed to know if they're in a school zone more easily than the police would know?
    And my guess would be that even if their map says you are OK, if it happens to be wrong, you are still a criminal.

    Just out of curiousity is a JD facility a school? Juveniles certainly go to school there so I would think it qualifies. Does the Milwaukee map show it as a school?
    The Milwaukee map is filled with nonsense, as is their definition of "school zone." But, no a JD facility would not qualify as a school because it is not something that is commonly referred to as an "elementary school, middle school, junior high school, senior high school or high school" as required by the statute.

    Hell, I'm sure anti's would like to call any house where kids are home-schooled to be a "school."
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    Shotgun wrote:
    The Milwaukee map is filled with nonsense, as is their definition of "school zone." But, no a JD facility would not qualify as a school because it is not something that is commonly referred to as an "elementary school, middle school, junior high school, senior high school or high school" as required by the statute.
    I looked at the statute and the way it is worded is vague enough that I think anywhere a 1-12 grade student is regularly receiving education would qualify.

    Look at the actual wording, rather than what you want it to mean. I am pretty sure that the rules of construction would mean that when they say something is commonly called X, it does not restrict the definition to only things that are commonly called X.Think ofitlike they are including examples of what the definition includes, but not to the exclusion of other things that fit the definition.

    Not trying to be disrespectful of your efforts, but if you are going to do this you should make sure you don't put out information that turns out to be legally wrong and gets someone a felony rap.

    It seems likely that somewhere along the way there is at least one court case that discusses just what a school is.

    You might also want to consider that while its not as if the feds are prosecuting people left and right over the federal school gun law, the wording there is just a hair different.

  21. #21
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    ilbob wrote:
    Shotgun wrote:
    The Milwaukee map is filled with nonsense, as is their definition of "school zone." But, no a JD facility would not qualify as a school because it is not something that is commonly referred to as an "elementary school, middle school, junior high school, senior high school or high school" as required by the statute.
    I looked at the statute and the way it is worded is vague enough that I think anywhere a 1-12 grade student is regularly receiving education would qualify.

    Look at the actual wording, rather than what you want it to mean. I am pretty sure that the rules of construction would mean that when they say something is commonly called X, it does not restrict the definition to only things that are commonly called X.Think ofitlike they are including examples of what the definition includes, but not to the exclusion of other things that fit the definition.

    Not trying to be disrespectful of your efforts, but if you are going to do this you should make sure you don't put out information that turns out to be legally wrong and gets someone a felony rap.

    It seems likely that somewhere along the way there is at least one court case that discusses just what a school is.

    You might also want to consider that while its not as if the feds are prosecuting people left and right over the federal school gun law, the wording there is just a hair different.
    I disagree. I don't think the school zone law is vague, it's just stupid. And, as I pointed out in a post elsewhere, the Milwaukee map contains a definition of school zone that expands the definition BEYOND the description contained in the statutes by borrowing language from another part of the statutes and sneaking it into THEIR definition.
    A. Gold

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    In the next day or so I should have a complete school zone map for the Appleton Area. This will include Menasha, Neenah, Kimberly, Greenville, Little Chute, Combined Locks and Kaukauna. Eight cities in one map.

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    jrm, I emailed you what I have so far for Appleton, WI. I will send the completed map when it is done.

    For some reason I cannot get it to post here.

    If anyone else needs a copy let me know.

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    I will repost the map when I complete the outlying areas.
    34 schools just in Appleton. If you notice the city is divided in half by restricted school zone area. Tell me this isn't infringement.

    If anyone wants a closer look, down load Google earth and let me know I will send you the file so you can zoom in and check it out.

    I have measured the restricted area from 1000 to 1010 Feet just to be safe.

    By the way am I the only one doing this?

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