Calling all school zone maps!

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ilbob wrote:

Shotgun wrote:

The Milwaukee map is filled with nonsense, as is their definition of "school zone." But, no a JD facility would not qualify as a school because it is not something that is commonly referred to as an "elementary school, middle school, junior high school, senior high school or high school" as required by the statute.

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I looked at the statute and the way it is worded is vague enough that I think anywhere a 1-12 grade student is regularly receiving education would qualify.

Look at the actual wording, rather than what you want it to mean. I am pretty sure that the rules of construction would mean that when they say something is commonly called X, it does not restrict the definition to only things that are commonly called X.Think ofitlike they are including examples of what the definition includes, but not to the exclusion of other things that fit the definition.

Not trying to be disrespectful of your efforts, but if you are going to do this you should make sure you don't put out information that turns out to be legally wrong and gets someone a felony rap.

It seems likely that somewhere along the way there is at least one court case that discusses just what a school is.

You might also want to consider that while its not as if the feds are prosecuting people left and right over the federal school gun law, the wording there is just a hair different.

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I disagree. I don't think the school zone law is vague, it's just stupid. And, as I pointed out in a post elsewhere, the Milwaukee map contains a definition of school zone that expands the definition BEYOND the description contained in the statutes by borrowing language from another part of the statutes and sneaking it into THEIR definition.

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In the next day or so I should have a complete school zone map for the Appleton Area. This will include Menasha, Neenah, Kimberly, Greenville, Little Chute, Combined Locks and Kaukauna. Eight cities in one map.

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jrm, I emailed you what I have so far for Appleton, WI. I will send the completed map when it is done.

For some reason I cannot get it to post here.

If anyone else needs a copy let me know.

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Appleton, WI.....Completed 10.12.09

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I will repost the map when I complete the outlying areas.
34 schools just in Appleton. If you notice the city is divided in half by restricted school zone area. Tell me this isn't infringement.:cuss:

If anyone wants a closer look, down load Google earth and let me know I will send you the file so you can zoom in and check it out.

I have measured the restricted area from 1000 to 1010 Feet just to be safe.

By the way am I the only one doing this?

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J.Gleason wrote:

I will repost the map when I complete the outlying areas.
34 schools just in Appleton. If you notice the city is divided in half by restricted school zone area. Tell me this isn't infringement.:cuss:

If anyone wants a closer look, down load Google earth and let me know I will send you the file so you can zoom in and check it out.

I have measured the restricted area from 1000 to 1010 Feet just to be safe.

By the way am I the only one doing this?

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Looks like you can't float down the river ether.

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If we all join in and do our own cities first we could virtually create GFSZ maps for the entire state. It is not hard, just time consuming and it will benefit all of us and Help the cause a great deal.

Everyone should grab a city or town and start working. You will be amazed at just how restrictive the GFSZ really is.

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Hillmann wrote:

Looks like you can't float down the river ether.

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Actually that is the only way to get across town with out going through the GFSZ,
other than Water Street.

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Is the an APP that you are using in Google Maps? I tried to get a start on a map for 'Stallis but didn't have effective way to measure and mark distances.

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pvtschultz wrote:

Is the an APP that you are using in Google Maps? I tried to get a start on a map for 'Stallis but didn't have effective way to measure and mark distances.

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I am using Google Earth. It is a free download.

I first Zoom in and Mark the border of the school property with a yellow path.

Then I measure out from that border 1000 to 1010 Feet using the ruler tool.

Once I have the measurement I mark that spot with a place mark.

After I have done this around the entire school property, I then link all of the place mark's together using the path tool again. Marking this with a red path.

Then I delete all of the place marks and leave behind the paths marking the GFSZ.

It is time consuming, but I believe it will be worth it to us all.

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J.Gleason wrote:

By the way am I the only one doing this?

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I am requesting the info straight from the PDs of Milwaukee County, but it takes longer than the way you do it. Give it some time, more maps will start coming in, orthe police departmentswill be forced to admit they don't have one, which will be helpful as well.

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The way I did mine was somewhat a pain in the butt, but worked very well and very accurate. I used the National Sex Offender Registry for my City whichlists and shows a map with streets of EVERY school and Educational center along with the address'. For the second part I used Mapquest Actually and ran the programs at the same time and used the Distance Gauge at the top of the screen to let me know where my 1000ft started and stopped. I measured my normal shopping centers from the Nearest School, and my routes on our evening walks... Hope this helps you all looking for a solution. If anyone has found a better way, please let me know.

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gunguy2009 wrote:

The way I did mine was somewhat a pain in the butt, but worked very well and very accurate. I used the National Sex Offender Registry for my City whichlists and shows a map with streets of EVERY school and Educational center along with the address'. For the second part I used Mapquest Actually and ran the programs at the same time and used the Distance Gauge at the top of the screen to let me know where my 1000ft started and stopped. I measured my normal shopping centers from the Nearest School, and my routes on our evening walks... Hope this helps you all looking for a solution. If anyone has found a better way, please let me know.

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I initially tried the mapquest route. The Google earth way works out much better and you can zoom in on the streets and all that good stuff.

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Appleton Area map above, updated

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How big of a town is Appleto(pop.)? It looks like ther are about 50 schools on that map.

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Hillmann wrote:

How big of a town is Appleto(pop.)? It looks like ther are about 50 schools on that map.

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Approximately 75 to 80,000 just in Appleton.

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What about pre-schools? I was talking to an OC'er last night and he mentioned he was told by LEO that a certain pre-school nearby essentially cut off his normal walk route.

I didn't think Pre-schools were included.

Statute?

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Stoney-Point wrote:

What about pre-schools? I was talking to an OC'er last night and he mentioned he was told by LEO that a certain pre-school nearby essentially cut off his normal walk route.

I didn't think Pre-schools were included.

Statute?

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948.605 Gun−free school zones. (1) DEFINITIONS. In this
section:
(a) “Encased” has the meaning given in s. 167.31 (1) (b).
(ac) “Firearm” does not include any beebee or pellet−firing
gun that expels a projectile through the force of air pressure or any
starter pistol.
(am) “Motor vehicle” has the meaning given in s. 340.01 (35).
(b) “School” has the meaning given in s. 948.61 (1) (b).
(c) “School zone” means any of the following:
1. In or on the grounds of a school.
2. Within 1,000 feet from the grounds of a school.
(2) POSSESSION OF FIREARM IN SCHOOL ZONE. (a) Any individual
who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual
knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone is
guilty of a Class I felony.
(b) Paragraph (a) does not apply to the possession of a firearm:
1. On private property not part of school grounds;
2. If the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so
by a political subdivision of the state or bureau of alcohol, tobacco
and firearms in which political subdivision the school zone is
located, and the law of the political subdivision requires that,
before an individual may obtain such a license, the law enforcement
authorities of the political subdivision must verify that the
individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
3. That is not loaded and is:
a. Encased; or
b. In a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
4. By an individual for use in a program approved by a school
in the school zone;
5. By an individual in accordance with a contract entered into
between a school in the school zone and the individual or an
employer of the individual;
6. By a law enforcement officer or state−certified commission
warden acting in his or her official capacity; or
7. That is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while
traversing school grounds for the purpose of gaining access to
public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school
grounds is authorized by school authorities.
8. By a person who is legally hunting in a school forest if the
school board has decided that hunting may be allowed in the
school forest under s. 120.13 (38).
(3) DISCHARGE OF FIREARM IN A SCHOOL ZONE. (a) Any individual
who knowingly, or with reckless disregard for the safety of
another, discharges or attempts to discharge a firearm at a place the
individual knows is a school zone is guilty of a Class G felony.
(b) Paragraph (a) does not apply to the discharge of, or the
attempt to discharge, a firearm:
1. On private property not part of school grounds;
2. As part of a program approved by a school in the school
zone, by an individual who is participating in the program;
3. By an individual in accordance with a contract entered into
between a school in a school zone and the individual or an
employer of the individual; or
4. By a law enforcement officer or state−certified commission
warden acting in his or her official capacity.
History: 1991 a. 17; 1993 a. 336; 2001 a. 109; 2005 a. 290; 2007 a. 27.

948.61 Dangerous weapons other than firearms on
school premises. (1) In this section:
(a) “Dangerous weapon” has the meaning specified in s.
939.22 (10), except “dangerous weapon” does not include any
firearm and does include any beebee or pellet−firing gun that
expels a projectile through the force of air pressure or any starter
pistol.
(b) “School” means a public, parochial or private school which
provides an educational program for one or more grades between
grades 1 and 12 and which is commonly known as an elementary
school, middle school, junior high school, senior high school or
high school.[align=left]
[/align][align=left]Pre Schools and day cares are not included.
[/align]

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If you are going to be carrying out in the public, especially in residential neighborhoods, you NEED to know the GFSZ statutes front to back, and it wouldn't hurt to carry it with you for reference. Secondly, never trust the legal opinion of an LEO, we oftentimes know more about the applicable laws than they, and they are tasked to enforce them. :banghead:


Now, here is an interesting observation from 948.61.

Note: In the above statutes, the state has made a distinction between the grounds of a school and the premises of a school. The grounds of a school can be read as the contiguous land on which a school, as defined above, sits on. The premises of a school is the land, including the grounds, and buildings owned by a school district. In 948.61, it is NOT unlawful to possess a firearm on the premises of a school, just on the grounds. It is unlawful to possess a BB gun and other dangerous weapons as defined in s. 939.22 (10), but not a firearm.


Therefore, it is my NON-LEGAL opinion that the Milwaukee PD school zone map has been falsified and is unreliable. It could be construed as a color of law violation of our right to keep and bear arms since they are knowingly prohibiting the possession of firearms on the premises of a school when it is quite clear that the statutes do not prohibit this.

Again, I am an engineer, not a lawyer. This is not legal advice. Always consult with an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Wisconsin for legal advice. This posting has been made to spur additional conversation. All emphasis mine.

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PVTschultz, I don't understand the conclusion you draw. How could it be that the school building (or premises) are not within 1,000 feet of the grounds?

I think the purpose of the two statutes is to make it a felony to have a gun in a school zone and to make it a misdemeanor to have a different type of weapon on school premises.