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Thread: a little confused please help

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    I have done some research about gun laws in New York, which stated(Rifles and Shotguns): no Permit to Purchase, no Registration of Firearm ,no Licensing of Owners, or no Permit to Carry (all those yes for handguns), would this be correct? Now I presume you can't open carry? What are the open carry/conceal laws?
    could you conceal carry say like an uzi in a holster? could you open carry it? could you open carry any rifle/shotgun on public property?

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    All that means is there are no special permits for rifles/shotguns. The only recognized permit for pistols is a concealed carry with or without restrictions. As for carrying a shotgun or rifle around - location, location, location. There is a fine line between "carrying" and "brandishing" and you will undoubtably get stopped by police if you wander down a public street with a shotgun slung over your shoulder.

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    redlegagent wrote:
    All that means is there are no special permits for rifles/shotguns. The only recognized permit for pistols is a concealed carry with or without restrictions. As for carrying a shotgun or rifle around - location, location, location. There is a fine line between "carrying" and "brandishing" and you will undoubtedly get stopped by police if you wander down a public street with a shotgun slung over your shoulder.
    And you have to be 21 to own and carry a pistol, correct?
    Yea I would figure you would get stopped and harassed, but it's legal right? say, at a public event such as a parade,carnival, etc? or even in a holster on a horse while riding on public streets?
    And you can conceal an uzi?

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    shadys210 wrote:

    And you have to be 21 to own and carry a pistol, correct?
    Yea I would figure you would get stopped and harassed, but it's legal right? say, at a public event such as a parade,carnival, etc? or even in a holster on a horse while riding on public streets?
    And you can conceal an uzi?

    I am not sure I want to dignify the above with a response, but here goes...

    1. Not only would you have to be 21 to own and carry a pistol, you would need to have a New York State License to Carry, which is more difficult to get than any other state in the US that does issue carry licenses. It is a background check nearly as thorough as becoming a police officer. New York, unlike most other states in the US, does not even allow a non-licensee to literally touch a handgun in any way without a license.

    2. In New York State, you had better be hunting to carry a long gun for any reason, or at least have ALL of the elements of hunting in place to be legal (in a legal hunting area, in season, permission to use the land, properly licensed, decked out in blaze orange, not crossing a road, etc) Once you left legal hunting land, your long gun would have to be properly secured in your vehicle, unloaded and cased.

    3. 'Such as a parade, carnival etc." No way, no how, this certainly isn't going to happen in New York. As a matter of fact, acting entirely as a civilian (while using my Military Police/Security/Law Enforcementtraining) I would probably take you down to the ground and hold you there at gunpoint myself if you were carrying a concealed long gun (under a rain coat on a nice day???) at a carnival or street fair attended by my own family in my own community. My neighbors would expect nothing less, the cops would thank me, the press would write that I prevented a mass shooting. True or not, it does not matter in a liberal state, you don't take long guns to carnivals.


    The above is not a threat, it's a fact of life.

    4. Most UZIs are legally the size of pistols. You would need a pistol license to own one in New York.



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    ok thanks I just wasn't sure because most sites with info don't make it clear
    what would be considered a pistol? like after a certain length or what?
    and about transporting, can you have it in a case in the back seat or locked in a gun holder like the police have?

    another question, I read some where a while back about things you can't have on a gun (bayonet, a bigger mag, etc), I can't remember what those were, any one know?

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    Methinks the gentleman doth ask too many questions on the internet...

    You need to take a class with an NRA certified instructor based in NY, he or she will be familiar enough with New York State law to give you information you should not be soliciting over the internet.

    You also need to develop some common sense. And real world experience.

    If you walk into a gun store anywhere in New York, and ask to see a firearm, if it is legally a handgun, you willl be asked to show your Pistol License. No license, no touchingany handgun.

    That's how you know what is legally a handgun in New York. In New York, the laws pertianing to handguns are not negotiable. Follow them to the letter. Period.


    You don't slowly transition from long gun to pistol by shaving and inch or two of steel off the barrel andan inch or two of wood off the stock. A long gun is a long gun, a hand gun is... well you get the idea. Shaving material off a long gun to make it concealable just makes it an ugly mess, mechanically and legally.

    Do not spend any time or effort searching for a small, concealable long gun. An UZI requires a pistol license.Certainly do not modify a legally purchased long gun to make it more concealable. You will be in a world of legal hurt if you do.

    Do not expect to vehicle carry a long gun in New York in a police cruiser shotgun rig. Nor in a hillbilly shotgun rack in the back window of the pickup. That's not part of the culture here nor in accordance with state law.

    Certainly do not expect to conceal carry a long gun on your person (if that's even physically possible) anywhere in New York for any reason whatsoever.

    Do not open carry an un-casedlong gun outside of a rifle range or legal hunting area for any reason whatsoever. If you do soin your ownhome, close the shades.

    I would probably not take a chance tucking a hunting rifle under my poncho during a rainstorm. Bring a separate gun sleeve for that.

    While in a vehicle, the long gun must be unloaded, cased, and reasonably inaccessible to the occupants. If you have a sedan, use the trunk. If you have an SUV, use the far back row. If you have a pickup with no space behind the driver's seat, get some sort of a hard case locking container for the bed area, make sure it's burglar and rain proof.

    When you are done hunting, take the rifle or shotgun into your house and lock it up. Do not drive around with it in your vehicle, planning on using it if you need it for protection.

    Carrying a handgun for protection on an unrestricted NYS Pistol License is acceptable.

    Throwing a shotgun in the trunk just in case the if S_T hits the fan IS NOT.

    As for the accoutrements you list (bayonnet, pistol grip, flash supressor), you need to be familiar with the items on a military style weapon that legally turn the long gun into an 'assault weapon' and follow New York State law accordingly.

    You also seem to require one or several of the following:

    1. A healty dose of maturity.

    2. An antidote to 'Mall-Ninja-itis'

    3. Some lessons in grammar, punctuation and capitalization

    4. A discussion on the political realities of New York, vis a vis firearms and gun culture

    OR..

    5. To refrain from trying to reel in well-meaning people like myself with fake posts. I still don't truly think you are for real.







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    WheelGun wrote:
    Methinks the gentleman doth ask too many questions on the internet...

    You need to take a class with an NRA certified instructor based in NY, he or she will be familiar enough with New York State law to give you information you should not be soliciting over the internet.

    You also need to develop some common sense. And real world experience.

    If you walk into a gun store anywhere in New York, and ask to see a firearm, if it is legally a handgun, you willl be asked to show your Pistol License. No license, no touchingany handgun.

    That's how you know what is legally a handgun in New York. In New York, the laws pertianing to handguns are not negotiable. Follow them to the letter. Period.


    You don't slowly transition from long gun to pistol by shaving and inch or two of steel off the barrel andan inch or two of wood off the stock. A long gun is a long gun, a hand gun is... well you get the idea. Shaving material off a long gun to make it concealable just makes it an ugly mess, mechanically and legally.

    Do not spend any time or effort searching for a small, concealable long gun. An UZI requires a pistol license.Certainly do not modify a legally purchased long gun to make it more concealable. You will be in a world of legal hurt if you do.

    Do not expect to vehicle carry a long gun in New York in a police cruiser shotgun rig. Nor in a hillbilly shotgun rack in the back window of the pickup. That's not part of the culture here nor in accordance with state law.

    Certainly do not expect to conceal carry a long gun on your person (if that's even physically possible) anywhere in New York for any reason whatsoever.

    Do not open carry an un-casedlong gun outside of a rifle range or legal hunting area for any reason whatsoever. If you do soin your ownhome, close the shades.

    I would probably not take a chance tucking a hunting rifle under my poncho during a rainstorm. Bring a separate gun sleeve for that.

    While in a vehicle, the long gun must be unloaded, cased, and reasonably inaccessible to the occupants. If you have a sedan, use the trunk. If you have an SUV, use the far back row. If you have a pickup with no space behind the driver's seat, get some sort of a hard case locking container for the bed area, make sure it's burglar and rain proof.

    When you are done hunting, take the rifle or shotgun into your house and lock it up. Do not drive around with it in your vehicle, planning on using it if you need it for protection.

    Carrying a handgun for protection on an unrestricted NYS Pistol License is acceptable.

    Throwing a shotgun in the trunk just in case the if S_T hits the fan IS NOT.

    As for the accoutrements you list (bayonnet, pistol grip, flash supressor), you need to be familiar with the items on a military style weapon that legally turn the long gun into an 'assault weapon' and follow New York State law accordingly.

    You also seem to require one or several of the following:

    1. A healty dose of maturity.

    2. An antidote to 'Mall-Ninja-itis'

    3. Some lessons in grammar, punctuation and capitalization

    4. A discussion on the political realities of New York, vis a vis firearms and gun culture

    OR..

    5. To refrain from trying to reel in well-meaning people like myself with fake posts. I still don't truly think you are for real.








    I did not come here to get ridiculed for not knowing specifics in the law. Nor is this English class so there is no need to say i need proper grammar, it's called the internet, not school. And not to mention you have your own fare share of misspells and such. These questions have nothing to do with how mature i am, i am an adult, not a kid, so i don't need another adult to tell me how mature i am. I came here to get answers to my questions, nobody said you HAD to answer them so don't complain about wasting your time answering them because YOU were the one that decided to click my post, read it, and write back to my supposedly "fake nonsense". So next time i ask a question, please refrain from answering them if you have such a problem with my posts.

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    Newbie with an attitude - good way to alienate people .

    First you pay your dues, then get respect.

    Note: this site is NOT a primer on all things related to firearms. You do need some basic/fundamental knowledge to even expect to participate intelligently. Suggest you read extensively herein then see what questions remain.

    Absenting that, there is scant hope you will be taken seriously.

    Yata hey
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Newbie with an attitude - good way to alienate people .

    First you pay your dues, then get respect.

    Note: this site is NOT a primer on all things related to firearms. You do need some basic/fundamental knowledge to even expect to participate intelligently. Suggest you read extensively herein then see what questions remain.

    Absenting that, there is scant hope you will be taken seriously.

    Yata hey


    Grapeshot, thank you.

    To the OP: Do you know anything about this site? Do you know that you are not long for the site if you pick fights with people, especially as a newbie? Some established 'old timers' have been banned for similar attitudes.

    It is because of OCDO that I have proudly joined the ranks of modern day pioneers of lawful open carry. I acknowledge thatbeing an OC pioneer is an especially risky position to take in New York, given the overwhelming ignorance and prejudice against most things related to the Second Amendment.

    Perhaps years from now, my younger colleagues interested in the open carrying of firearms in NYS will have a clearer understanding of our muddled state firearms laws, and will not feel like a persecuted minority.

    I hope to have at least a small part in that change.

    As to your objections to what I included in my recent response:

    I clearly and intelligently gave you a condensed version of my nearly 1/2 century of accumulation of knowledge of NYS firearms laws, including experience gained as civilian with an unrestricted NYS pistol license, a lifetime avid hunter, former police officer, current military NCO.

    I included a wide range of experience condensed into one page.

    All as it relates to the OPEN CARRY of firearms.

    Expect doubt as to who you are and what your intentions are. Especially as a new member.

    There are occasional trolls to this site, trying to appear as firearms enthusiasts, but really trying to stir up doubt as to theintentions of the real members. Many OCDO members believe (as do I) that anti-gunners search sites such as this, create an identity, and word their posts to sound like a gun-toting knucklehead to discredit the Second Amendment/open carry/firearms rights movement.

    Also realize that OCDO is in the forefront of fighting for your OC rights, and is under public scrutiny. The founders of the site are quoted in the press often. Posts to this site are quoted and discussed on other sites not as friendly to our ideals.

    It is up to the more level headed among us to keep those interested in 'conceal carrying UZIs' informed as to the applicable laws. And to strongly discourage such behavior wherever it it not completely legal.

    No one here wants the anti's to use our own posts against us. That's why we have to jump on anyone who asks some of the questions you asked, and set them straight.

    On a personal note:

    I am sure that I am one of your 'elders.' I have enough gray hair on my head (and rank stripes on my uniform) to be taken seriously.

    Listen carefully. Learn from those around you.

    Study the law. Bring your knowledge with you to this site. We all learn from each other.

    Realize that well intentioned, caringpeople will offer guidance, and that guidance will often include criticism.

    People that don't give a $--t will ignore you. Or worse.

    Which of the above two have Iproved myself to be?

    Advocate following the law in spirit and to the letter. Meticulously following the law is the backbone that supports the body of theOC movement.

    Become a scholar of the US Constitution and your applicable state and local laws.

    And stop belly-aching. Expect criticism and doubt. We all have to get through it.

    Welcome to OCDO.

    Now do twenty push-ups and get back into formation.









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    In NYC I am required to have a rifle /shot gun storage permit and having any rifle /shot gun with a pistol grip is a felony

    NYC also requires a license to have a pistol /revolver in the home and permit for hunting /target and if you go target shooting you must notify NYC police the 2 days a month your taking these firearms out of your home such as every other Saturday etc.

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    shadys210 wrote:
    I have done some research about gun laws in New York, which stated(Rifles and Shotguns): no Permit to Purchase, no Registration of Firearm ,no Licensing of Owners, or no Permit to Carry (all those yes for handguns), would this be correct? Now I presume you can't open carry? What are the open carry/conceal laws?
    could you conceal carry say like an uzi in a holster? could you open carry it? could you open carry any rifle/shotgun on public property?
    You need permission from either Kew Gardens (Rifle /shot gun) to buy a long gun and 1 police plaza has to be notified MONTHS prior to buying any hand gun ..

    Mayor Mike is above the law of the land don't you know?

    There was a vote that passed two term limit Bloomberg bought the right to run a 3rd, 4th and 5th time

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    Gee......this "Wheelgun" character seems almost proud to live in a NLS (Nightmare Liberal State). !!!

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    Yes, I am proud to live here.

    I am very proud to live here.

    This is my home. It has been since birth. I was educated to the level of Master's Degree here, served my community and my state as a Police Officer, Emergency Medical Technician, National Guard NonCommissioned Officer, inner-city Public School Teacher, and most importantly became a husband and father here.

    All in New York State.

    True, there are reprehensible liberals too numerous to mention in New York, but unlike other generally liberal states, New York has a strong history of home rule.

    In my county of residence, the handgun licensing office as well as local law enforcement have specifically informed license holders that they interpret NYS law to allow, within the county,limited open carry and unrestricted concealed carry of a licensed handgun.

    On a wider scope, over 70% of my county of residence is designated as protected watershed, and provides New York City with some of the cleanest unfiltered water ever delivered to any city, anywhere, at any time in human history.

    The above are but a few of a hundred reasons why I moved my family to this particular area of the state.This area hasexperienced no population growth in decades, more and more acreage being designated as 'forever wild' each year.

    And yet most people I know who have an education, are able to find reasonably well-compensated employment despite the global economy. In education, communication, engineering, the arts and sciences.

    New York is a place of diversity, creativity and tolerance. Of incredible natural beauty and (in certain areas) unpolluted land.

    And, in keeping with the theme of this website, I am pleased to report that I am also a proud 'open carrier.'

    In New York.

    Not all the time, not most of the time, but enough of the time.

    Yeah. A real character.


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    If you have a judge that allows such "liberalism" of the gun laws, I would suggest you not advertise too much. Given that the idiot bloomberg is spending tax dollars sending private investigators out of state to stir up trouble regarding guns and gun sales, it probably wouldn't take much for his interest to turn up north a little closer.

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    I'd like to ask a question here too. I was born and raised in Albany County. I've long since moved away but as luck would have it, my son now lives and practices in Albany County.
    I know all the bs about handguns. I would like to give him my older AR-15. It is a Colt "preban" and has the original triangular handguards. I have heard conflicting advice and I just thought I would ask about this here.
    Thank you for your help.

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    WheelGunwrote


    Do not expect to vehicle carry a long gun in New York in a police cruiser shotgun rig. Nor in a hillbilly shotgun rack in the back window of the pickup. That's not part of the culture here nor in accordance with state law.


    Do not open carry an un-casedlong gun outside of a rifle range or legal hunting area for any reason whatsoever. If you do soin your ownhome, close the shades.

    I would probably not take a chance tucking a hunting rifle under my poncho during a rainstorm. Bring a separate gun sleeve for that.

    While in a vehicle, the long gun must be unloaded, cased, and reasonably inaccessible to the occupants. If you have a sedan, use the trunk. If you have an SUV, use the far back row. If you have a pickup with no space behind the driver's seat, get some sort of a hard case locking container for the bed area, make sure it's burglar and rain proof.

    When you are done hunting, take the rifle or shotgun into your house and lock it up. Do not drive around with it in your vehicle, planning on using it if you need it for protection.

    Carrying a handgun for protection on an unrestricted NYS Pistol License is acceptable.

    Throwing a shotgun in the trunk just in case the if S_T hits the fan IS NOT.


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    please reference law that says you cant carry a gun in a rack.


    please reference where it says you cant carry a long gununconcealed in public

    as for in a vehicle, yes it has to be unloaded, but it does not have to be cased.

    if you want to have a shotgun in the trunk or in the car for protection as long as its unloaded its fine.

    and if i want to be on a public side walk watching our local 4th of july parade andi amcarrying my long gun openly please feel free to harass me as i exercise my rights within the law.

    oh and there are rifle versions of the uzi not all are pistols.








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    nrebelman442 wrote:
    WheelGunÂ*wrote


    please reference law that says you cant carry a gun in a rack.[/font]

    pleaseÂ* reference where it says you cant carry a long gunÂ*unconcealed in public

    Â*as for in a vehicle, yes it has to be unloaded, but it does not have to be cased.

    if you want to have a shotgun in the trunk or in the car for protection as long as its unloaded its fine.

    and if i want to be on a public side walk watching our local 4th of july parade andÂ*i amÂ*carrying my long gun openly please feel free to harass me as i exercise my rights within the law.

    oh and there are rifle versions of the uzi not all are pistols.






    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I agree, please show us the laws that say such things
    also, feel free to harass me too!
    and yea, not all UZI's are pistols

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    mr. parker wrote:
    I'd like to ask a question here too. I was born and raised in Albany County. I've long since moved away but as luck would have it, my son now lives and practices in Albany County.
    I know all the bs about handguns. I would like to give him my older AR-15. It is a Colt "preban" and has the original triangular handguards. I have heard conflicting advice and I just thought I would ask about this here.
    Thank you for your help.
    Best to research the serial number on the specific individual firearm and determine if it was manufactured prior to the applicable law taking effect. Carry a copy of the document indicating such was manufactured prior to the law taking effect as an extra measure of legal safety.

    There is a big difference between 'Albany County' and 'inner city Albany.' I visit the ARNG range at Guilderland often and there seems to be a rural culture that is on your side. Closer to the inner city... I never step foot there despite the fact that I carry 110% legally even there. I just don't like the place.

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    as for in a vehicle, yes it has to be unloaded, but it does not have to be cased.

    if you want to have a shotgun in the trunk or in the car for protection as long as its unloaded its fine.





    New York State law, in regards to transporting firearms in your vehicle:

    "Possession of any loaded rifle or shotgun in a vehicle is illegal".
    "Loaded means a firearm with ammunition loaded in magazine or chamber or any firearm which is possessed by one who at the same time possesses a quantity of ammunition which may be used to discharge such a firearm".

    "It is unlawful to carry any firearm for the purpose of doing harm to another"

    Any long gun must be unloaded, with the action open, and kept distinctly physically separate from the ammunition, or else it is legally considered loaded.

    Why would you carry an unloaded long gun in your car, with the corresponding ammo locked away in the trunk, for protection? If you do, you may feel better, but you are on a fool's errand.

    Carrying a long gun in the trunk for 'protection' may go undetected by the authorities for your entire life. If you keep your intent of self-defense to yourself, and explain away the presence of a rifle/shotgun as sporting equipment, youare quitereasonably on the side of the law.

    If a Trooper pulls his cruiser up behind you to keep you safe as you change a tire, and sees your long gun, you should explain to the Trooper (if he even asks) that you were going to the range or going hunting. Have a range membership, a hunting license, keep a blaze orangejacket or a few targets/clay pigeonsin the mix, even better. In New York, you are still legally in the clear.

    However, when placing a long gun inyour trunk specifically for protection, think long and hard about the following scenario:

    Do you want the fact that, beginning from a position of relative safety (inside your vehicle, door locks engaged, driving down a road) you proceeded to pull the car over to the shoulder, stop the car, place the car in park, set the parking brake, unlock the door locks, exit the vehicle, unlock the trunk, retrieve your long gun case, open the case, open the action, retrieve the ammo box, open the ammo box, remove rounds from the ammo box, load several rounds into the magazine of your weapon, aimyour weapon and fire at your alleged assailant... do you want that sequence of events brought up in court?

    The wording of 'doing harm to another' has, in some legal opinions, been interpreted as outlawing self-protection via the use of a long gun in New York State. You may not agree, but your opinion, and hopeful interpretation of the law,will not mean much incourt.

    As for in-the-vehicle carry:

    Do you want to explain why you have an accessible, uncased shotgun inside your vehicle to a New York State Trooper when he pulls you over on I-87?

    Do you want a quick lesson in the great cultural dichotomy that exists in New York when a downstater uses a cellphone to call-in your exposed firearms in a gun rack?

    During hunting season, you are generally OK with long guns in the car, the laws of vehicular carrying of firearms/ammunition get a littlemore flexiblein the interest of convenience (a few rounds in your pocket whiledriving from jeep trail A to jeep trail B is not going to bother anyone.)

    As for long-gun-carry in town:

    Heck, I saw an uncased .30-06 slung over a hunter's shoulder in the Quickway in Walton.

    Then again, if you know (and love) Delaware County the way I do, when you are here in late October to late November, every square inch of the county seems to be a legal hunting area.

    But an uncased rifle openly carried on Main Street in Oneonta will bring the Oneonta Police,SUNY Policeand the NY State Police, lights and sirens.

    You have to know the laws, you have to know the area, you have to know the culture.

    And you have to know the culture/laws applicable during the time of year it is at the moment. All of these things figure into the equation.

    "if you want to have a shotgun in the trunk or in the car for protection as long as its unloaded its fine."

    Do you want to have an uncased long gun banging around in your trunk? If you do not have a trunk in your vehicle (SUV/pickup) the legal equivalent is a locked case.

    "oh and there are rifle versions of the uzi not all are pistols."


    An 'UZI' or any other rifle, must have a barrel of more than 16 inches. It must also have a non-collapsable stock, or it will be considered an assault weapon. Number of rounds in the 'clip' has legal significance as well. Check the New York State list of specifically prohibited 'assault weapons' that are illegal regardless of the characteristics of the individual firearm.

    "and if i want to be on a public side walk watching our local 4th of july parade andi amcarrying my long gun openly"

    I know the law, I know the culture, I know the cops. If you do this, you are an idiot.

    "Please cite applicable law"

    I'm not a lawyer and I am certainly not being paid to be on retainer. To anyone with a pissy attitude toward the above: dothe rest of the research yourself.

    Additional note added later:

    Not all legal questions are based on statute law. There is case law, which is a collection of actual incidents that have ended up in court; this experience will guide future cases. Most importantly, there is the training and policy of the law enforcement agency that you may encounter if you take the letter of the law to its extreme.

    Any police officer that percieves a threat such as a firearm will balance the rights of the individual with his/her own personal safety. Officers are trained to limit thier actions to those that can be verbally explained later (articulated). No officer will have a problem articulating why they carried out a "high-risk-vehicle-stop" when they see a shotgun in your car outside of a legal hunting/target shooting area.

    (Ahigh-risk-stop is when you end up face down on the roadway, with a cop's boot on your neck and a gun barrel in your ear.)

    I, personally, have been involved in several high risk stops as both as a Police Officer and as an Army MP. They all involved weapons that were posessed, in vehicles, at the wrong place at the wrong time.

    Most people who look down the barrel of a law enforcement weapon, while being yelled at by several officers, lose either bladder or bowel control, or both.


    Do you really want to go through that?



  20. #20
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    Thanks- I agree with you completely about the city. When I was a teen, we used to go hunting just outside the city limits. We would walk down a main street to get to the area with shotguns or .22's. Once in a while, the police would stop us- to find out if we had any extra game, usually pheasants or rabbits. If the weather turned crappy, they'd drive us home. Not once, did they stop to check our weapons if they were loaded or not, they just wanted some free food and we always shared.

  21. #21
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    WheelGun wrote:
    I know the law, I know the culture, I know the cops. If you do this, you are an idiot.




    If you're going to assert something is illegal, be prepared to cite the relevant law.

    Culture and attitudes of LEO's is not law. If it was no one would ever open carry in WI.




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