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Thread: A Maryland cautionary tale - - -

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    A Maryland cautionary tale - - -



    A young friend of mine works on a farm, and since we have a lot of trouble with varmints and vermin in the area, he keeps a couple old guns handy to dispatch them when he can. They are nothing fancy, an old hammer shotgun, and a couple single action pistols.



    He drives an old three seat van and carries these tools of his trade back and forth to work, unloaded of course, and the shotgun broken down. One pistol is kept in a flap covered holster, and the other he normally keeps in a rolled up oily rag to keep it from rusting. He has been doing this for over a year on a daily basis with no problems and no concerns.



    And then he got stopped for rolling through a stop sign. Officer asked him (routinely?),”Do you have any firearms in the vehicle?” He of course replied that he did. At which point he was told get out of the car and put your hands behind your back.



    The officer started to look in the back of the van and my young friend reminded him that he had not given him permission to search, as his Father had instructed him. Cop told him “Shut up and don’t give me any of that legal business”.



    When the cop found the guns, he cuffed him and had him hauled off to jail on firearms violations. Pop goes down and bails him out.



    Now we go to court - - - of course the Officer does not show up, but the Prosecuting Attorney is adamant about punishing the kid, so he delays the trial to the afternoon.



    Kid has his employer, to testify that he used the guns in his daily work, and to be a character reference. Kid has a spotless record, not even a traffic ticket.



    Afternoon session, Officer is a no show again, probably because of the illegal search and seizure question, but the DA still wants to hang the youngster.



    Judge is growing impatient; he and the lawyers huddle up and come up with this deal. Youngster pleads guilty to disorderly conduct and forfeits the pistols (his Fathers!), the shotgun to be returned.



    The young man did break the law by improperly transporting an unloaded gun according to the letter of the law, but they were not loaded, accessible by the driver or even first row of passengers.



    I think it sucks, the cop could have cut him a break, and chewed his ass, and even checked him on another day.



    I guess the lesson is that in Maryland, in respect to firearms, you had best follow the letter of the law.



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    Bay Bob wrote:
    A Maryland cautionary tale - - -


    I guess the lesson is that in Maryland, in respect to firearms, you had best follow the letter of the law.

    Or do what I did...move! I am much happier in Va. I am a Marylander by birth, but no longer by choice. There are a number of states that just simply restrict freedom to much to suffer living in. IMHO, Maryland is one of those places.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Although having the cop cut him a break would be nice, the better thought is that your young friend should have been instructed/informed on the law and followed it.

    From what I've read, the laws there are onerous and draconian, as well as designed to infringe as much as possible on the rights of the citizens. From your post it seems that there were two errors of law committed - one by the cop and one by the kid for rolling over and taking the plea agreement when he had a chance to get the charge dismissed - either that day or when the Prosecuting Attorney rescheduled the trial.

    I'm just saying that those who give up their rights for convenience must find it convenient to give up their rights. I was not there and I did not have the pressure of having to make a decision about what to do. I'm just spouting off about how I think I'd act under those circumstances.

    All in all it sounds like your advice is spot on - obey the law and expect no mercy.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    Aside from perhaps the one gun wrapped in the rag, he was not breaking any laws. A rag is not a "case" or "holster with a flap or securing device". However this is so trivial, it is rediculous.

    Lawsuit time? After all the cop infringed on his 4A rights. ACLU may even take this up.

    What county was this in?

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    XD40coyote wrote:
    Aside from perhaps the one gun wrapped in the rag, he was not breaking any laws. A rag is not a "case" or "holster with a flap or securing device". However this is so trivial, it is rediculous.

    Lawsuit time? After all the cop infringed on his 4A rights. ACLU may even take this up.

    What county was this in?
    St Marys, and the people involved are just glad to have it over and done with.

    The youngster will eventually need a security clearance and they did not want to chance a firearms related conviction on his record.

    It hits home to me, because I taught this youngster to shoot, and I pounded in his headthe restrictions in this state about transporting firearms.

    And the fact is, that irrespective of the illegal (depending on how you read Maryland law, see above post) search and seizure, he was not 100% in compliance with the law.

    He would rather have the disorderly conduct on his record than illegally transporting a firearm - - - so they took the deal.



    Not sure what I would have done.

    Well then again I am sure, I would transport in the locked steel gun safe I have locked and chained under the rear seat of my truck.

    I do have a concealed carry permit from Virginia, but first you have to legally get out of Maryland.

    Looking at permanently getting out of MD soon !

    BB



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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Bay Bob wrote:
    XD40coyote wrote:
    Aside from perhaps the one gun wrapped in the rag, he was not breaking any laws. A rag is not a "case" or "holster with a flap or securing device". However this is so trivial, it is rediculous.

    Lawsuit time? After all the cop infringed on his 4A rights. ACLU may even take this up.

    What county was this in?
    St Marys, and the people involved are just glad to have it over and done with.

    The youngster will eventually need a security clearance and they did not want to chance a firearms related conviction on his record.

    It hits home to me, because I taught this youngster to shoot, and I pounded in his headthe restrictions in this state about transporting firearms.

    And the fact is, that irrespective of the illegal (depending on how you read Maryland law, see above post) search and seizure, he was not 100% in compliance with the law.

    He would rather have the disorderly conduct on his record than illegally transporting a firearm - - - so they took the deal.



    Not sure what I would have done.

    Well then again I am sure, I would transport in the locked steel gun safe I have locked and chained under the rear seat of my truck.

    I do have a concealed carry permit from Virginia, but first you have to legally get out of Maryland.

    Looking at permanently getting out of MD soon !

    BB

    I'm sorry, but I have to ask. What does this mean ("but first you have to legally get out of Maryland."?


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    I read that as moving and securing proper change of residency on record.

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    The real lesson is that Maryland needs to be punk slapped into recognizing and upholding the 2nd Amendment and thus restored to proper relationship with its citizens. Also that DA needs to lose the next election. See to it that he does.

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    The kid should have been advised to refuse the plea. With no officer there is no witness for the state.

    Even if the officer showed up, the evidence is inadmissible as 'fruit of the poisonous tree' (ie: bad search).

    With no evidence, there is no crime.

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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Bay Bob wrote:
    XD40coyote wrote:
    Aside from perhaps the one gun wrapped in the rag, he was not breaking any laws. A rag is not a "case" or "holster with a flap or securing device". However this is so trivial, it is rediculous.

    Lawsuit time? After all the cop infringed on his 4A rights. ACLU may even take this up.

    What county was this in?
    St Marys, and the people involved are just glad to have it over and done with.

    The youngster will eventually need a security clearance and they did not want to chance a firearms related conviction on his record.

    It hits home to me, because I taught this youngster to shoot, and I pounded in his headthe restrictions in this state about transporting firearms.

    And the fact is, that irrespective of the illegal (depending on how you read Maryland law, see above post) search and seizure, he was not 100% in compliance with the law.

    He would rather have the disorderly conduct on his record than illegally transporting a firearm - - - so they took the deal.



    Not sure what I would have done.

    Well then again I am sure, I would transport in the locked steel gun safe I have locked and chained under the rear seat of my truck.

    I do have a concealed carry permit from Virginia, but first you have to legally get out of Maryland.

    Looking at permanently getting out of MD soon !

    BB

    I'm sorry, but I have to ask. What does this mean ("but first you have to legally get out of Maryland."?


    Sorry for the confusion - - - what I mean is legally transporting ahandgunout of the state of Maryland for carry once you leave the state.

    Maryland has very restrictive laws on transporting handguns, and you are largely limited to transporting it to the range (even informal) or for hunting, or perhaps for service.

    I was a hunter safety instructor, and at one time it was illegal to transport handguns to class to use in demonstrations. That law has since been ammended to permit hunter safety instructors to transport.

    Because Maryland is so draconian with selective (unconstitutional) enforcement a wise person falls back on the Federal law on transporting handguns which requires a locked compartment or container.

    I'll see if I can post the applicable law.



    BB

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    Here is the synopsis of Maryland law from the NRA



    "

    CARRYING AND TRANSPORTATION IN VEHICLES

    Rifles and shotguns being transported in motor vehicles must be unloaded.

    It is a crime to wear or carry openly any rifle or shotgun with the intent or purpose of unlawfully injuring any person.

    It is unlawful for any person without a permit to wear or carry a handgun, openly or concealed, upon or about his person, or to knowingly transport a handgun in any vehicle traveling on public roads, highways, waterways or airways or upon roads or parking lots generally used by the public. This does not apply to any person wearing, carrying or transporting a handgun within the confines of real estate owned or leased by him, or on which he resided, or within the confines of a business establishment owned or leased by him. [3]

    Federal and Maryland State or local law enforcement officers generally are exempt from the permit requirement. However, sheriffs and their deputies are exempted only while on active assignment engaged in law enforcement and only with respect to handguns which they are duly authorized to wear, carry or transport as part of their official equipment. Law enforcement officers from other states are exempt only while on official business.

    No violation is committed by any person who can demonstrate that the handgun is being carried, worn or transported:

    1. Too or from a place of legal purchase or sale or repair shop.


    2. Between such person's bona fide residences or between his residence and place of business if the business is operated and substantially owned by that person.


    3. While engaged in or traveling to and from a "target shoot, formal or informal target practice, sport shooting event, hunting, trapping or dog obedience training class or show."


    4. By a bona fide gun collector who is "moving any part or all of his gun collection from place to place for public or private exhibition," and while such handguns are actually on exhibition.

    During transportation to and from the above places, the handguns must be unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or enclosed holster. [4]

    An additional penalty is provided for any person convicted of unlawfully wearing, carrying or transporting a handgun, if his deliberate purpose was to injury or kill another person. "



    I would not like to have to convince a Cop that transporting a handgun out of Maryland so I can concealed carry fits the above exceptions.

    So I take shelter in the federal law on transporting "from any place where a firearm may legally be possessed to any other place a firearm may be possesed".

    But that law requires a locked container or compartment and ammunition stored seperately - - - at least until I leave Maryland.



    BB

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    Double post - - sorry !

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    AZkopper wrote:
    The kid should have been advised to refuse the plea. With no officer there is no witness for the state.

    Even if the officer showed up, the evidence is inadmissible as 'fruit of the poisonous tree' (ie: bad search).

    With no evidence, there is no crime.
    Considering how Maryland law is written, it is not carved in stone that the search was illegal - - - under Maryland law as it is interperted by the courts.

    "

    §4–206.
    (a)(1)A law enforcement officer may make an inquiry and conduct a limited search of a person under paragraph (2) of this subsection if the officer, in light of the officer’s observations, information, and experience, reasonably believes that:
    (i)the person may be wearing, carrying, or transporting a handgun in violation of § 4-203 of this subtitle;
    (ii)because the person possesses a handgun, the person is or presently may be dangerous to the officer or to others;
    (iii)under the circumstances, it is impracticable to obtain a search warrant; and
    (iv)to protect the officer or others, swift measures are necessary to discover whether the person is wearing, carrying, or transporting a handgun.
    (2)If the circumstances specified under paragraph (1) of this subsection exist, a law enforcement officer:
    (i)may approach the person and announce the officer’s status as a law enforcement officer;
    (ii)may request the name and address of the person;
    (iii)if the person is in a vehicle, may request the person’s license to operate the vehicle and the registration of the vehicle;
    (iv)may ask any question and request any explanation that may be reasonably calculated to determine whether the person is unlawfully wearing, carrying, or transporting a handgun in violation of § 4-203 of this subtitle; and
    (v)if the person does not offer an explanation that dispels the officer’s reasonable beliefs described in paragraph (1) of this subsection, may conduct a search of the person limited to a patting or frisking of the person’s clothing in search of a handgun.
    (3)A law enforcement officer acting under this subsection shall take into account all circumstances of the occasion, including the age, appearance, physical condition, manner, and gender of the person approached.
    (b)(1)If the officer discovers that the person is wearing, carrying, or transporting a handgun, the officer may demand evidence from the person of the person’s authority to wear, carry, or transport the handgun in accordance with § 4-203(b) of this article.
    (2)If the person does not produce the evidence specified in paragraph (1) of this subsection, the officer may seize the handgun and arrest the person.
    (c)(1)A law enforcement officer who conducts a search or seizure in accordance with this section shall file a written report with the law enforcement officer’s employer unit within 24 hours after the search or seizure.
    (2)The report shall be on a form that the Secretary of Public Safety and Correctional Services prescribes, shall include the name of the person searched, and shall describe the circumstances surrounding and the reasons for the search or seizure.
    (3)A copy of the report shall be sent to the Secretary of the State Police.
    (d)On request of a law enforcement officer, the Attorney General shall defend the officer in a civil action, including any appeal, in which the officer is sued for conducting a search or seizure under this section that is alleged to be unreasonable and unlawful.
    (e)(1)This section may not be construed to limit the right of a law enforcement officer to conduct any other type of search or seizure or make an arrest that is otherwise authorized by law.
    (2)The provisions of this section are in addition to and not limited by the provisions of Title 2 of the Criminal Procedure Article."

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    Damn double post again - - - site is slow today - - -

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    What about the 1986 Firearms Owner's Protection Act? Wouldn't that protect you for transport of your handgun to Virginia since you are allowed to legally own it in both states?


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    I would advise any sane person cognizant of their rights as American citizens to escape the NeocomFacist Police State of Maryland by whatever means as soon as possible and never return.

    Maryland is broken and unfixable as long as it is joined at the hip to the Federal corruption of D.C. which is equally broken. It's no wonder the Virginians refer to the Potomac as 'The Moat'.

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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    What about the 1986 Firearms Owner's Protection Act? Wouldn't that protect you for transport of your handgun to Virginia since you are allowed to legally own it in both states?

    That works but there are restrictions - - - from the NRA

    "FEDERAL LAW ON TRANSPORTATION OF FIREARMS



    A provision of federal law serves as a defense to state or local laws which would prohibit the passage of persons with firearms in interstate travel.

    Notwithstanding any state or local law, a person shall be entitled to transport a firearm from any place where he may lawfully possess it to any other place where he may lawfully possess such firearm if the firearm is unloaded and in the trunk. In vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm shall be in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Necessary stops, like gasoline and rest, seem permissible."



    Since I normally travel in a 4 door pick-up truck, with no topper, I elected the locked pistol case. To prevent theft I chain the box to the chassis of the rear seat with a high security lock and a hardened chain.



    And YUP I am leaving Maryland as soon as Momma retires this spring - - - farm shopping in Virgina as we speak !



    BB



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    "Not too America over there" alarm is going off (again).

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    I would advise any sane person cognizant of their rights as American citizens to escape the NeocomFacist Police State of Maryland by whatever means as soon as possible and never return.

    Maryland is broken and unfixable as long as it is joined at the hip to the Federal corruption of D.C. which is equally broken. It's no wonder the Virginians refer to the Potomac as 'The Moat'.
    I think there are fewer and fewer states to flee to as the police become better equiped with both military hardware and the ever expanding legal protections. I don't hate police but I have to admit the laws they claim to make them safer are slowly but surely removing my rights as a US citizen.

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