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Thread: Walmart Policy Change?

  1. #1
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    I've been asked to post this here:

    DrTodd wrote:
    Well, it finally happened. After OCing without incident for over two years, I was asked by the local Walmart assistant manager to take my pistol out to my car if I wanted to continue to shop. When I informed him that OC was legal in Michigan, he stated he did not care "whatever permits I had", that "firearms are prohibited by Walmart corporate policy". When I informed him that he was wrong as Walmart follows state law in this regard, he said that my belief was contrary to everything he had ever been informed of regarding firearms at Walmart. I then asked for his name, left my items there, and immediately exited the store. When I arrived at home, I emailed the corporate offices regarding the incident and requested clarification of Walmart corporate policy.
    I am aware that past postings regarding Walmart policy explained that Walmart follows state law. However, any store may, though, ask a person OCing to leave. However, since the assistant manager stated that firearms are prohibited by "Walmart policy" and not any specific event that took place while I was OC, I felt that by receiving something addressed to me clarifying policy is needed. I will post any response that I get from them.
    I received a response today from my local Walmart; I have the call recorded if the veracity of the message left on my cell phone is in dispute. As I do not want to deal with the possible repercussions from Walmart lawyers by posting the actual recording here, I've transcribed the recording word for word:

    "This is... ah...Assistant Manager Eric over at the Grandville (MI) Walmart. I just wanted to follow up with you on ... ah... a letter to the president that you submitted about carrying a handgun in our store. I talked to ah... our (inaudible) Market Team which is above the whole store and.... ah....we know that you... that you.... we respect the right that you have... that you can carry a weapon but since this is private property we ask that our customers don't just because of all of our other customers find it somewhat frightening that there is someone walking around with a gun. Now I know that you have a right and we respect it and... all that...but, if you could just please...ah...just when you come to the store if you could just keep it...ah... keep your gun in the car that would be great. Like I said we respect your rights but it being private property... um...if you could just keep it in your car. If you have any questions, please call management at our store at 616-667-9724. Have a good day"

    It appears my local Walmart has a "No Weapons" policy; I will spend my money (about $150-$300 a week) at my local Meijer store. Not only may I not carry openly, but it appears I can't carry concealed either (I have a CPL). As I emphatically stated when I was questioned and I further acknowledged in my letter to Walmart, I recognized their right to ask me to leave... and I did. I did ask, though, if anyone was scared or if there was any indication from customers that they were concerned about me. I was also dressed in a polo shirt and a cargo-type shorts, so I can't imagine my appearance was "threatening". The answer to my question at that time was "No".
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum7/14689.html

    There is a user (Parabellum) in that thread who posted a call to Wal-Mart which clarified that corporate policy is to honor state laws for the state whatever store you are going to is in.


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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    curtiswr wrote:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum7/14689.html

    There is a user (Parabellum) in that thread who posted a call to Wal-Mart which clarified that corporate policy is to honor state laws for the state whatever store you are going to is in.
    When I was stopped by the Assistant Manager, I informed him that I believed that the "honor state laws" was corporate policy. The Assistant Manager informed me that my belief was wrong.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Keep pushing through to the corporate office. Sounds like Eric needs to be educated. I bet corporate wouldn't like to hear that a rogue assistant manager is changing Wal-Mart policy.

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    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    You won't get anywhere talking to the local or district managers in your area. Call Wal-Mart corporate in Bentonville, (800) 925-6278 and ask for their corporate policy and tell them everything the store manager told you. You might try (479) 273-4000ā€ˇ, local number in Bentonville that goes to their general offices. You should be able to get this cleared up as many others have done in other states. Stores are not allowed to set policy contradictory to corporate policy. Wal-Mart wants your money and they don't want local managers driving away customers.
    Do you want to enjoy liberty in your lifetime?

    Consider moving to New Hampshire as part of the Free State Project.

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    I hate to tell you this, and I know you ain't gonna like it, but that corporate policy of "honor state laws" cuts both ways.

    If your state statutes provide that private property owners, or their agents (store managers), can prohibit carry of firearms onto their property, they can, while still "honoring state laws".

    Walmart corporate policy is to "honor state laws", not yours or my wishes or desires. Store managers can pretty much deal with this issue however they want, unless someone higher upthe chain of authoritytells them different. Walmart HQ could care less as long as a store is profitable. IN most cases there aren't enough carriers to make a noticable impact on a stores bottom line if they all boycoted a store.

    Unfortunately, probably the only thing that would change a store managers anti-gun position would be if his/her store fell victem to a derranged killer that walked into a "gun free store" and started shooting customers at randam. Can you imagine the carnage if this happened on a busy Christmas shopping day?

    But then again, some of wally worlds managers aren't bright enough to understand the concept of armed customers being "first responders" to such a horrificevent.

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    My original letter WAS to corporate; they passed it down to be dealt with at the store level. BTW, a similar incident happened in Owasso to another Michigan member who found out from, as I recall, a regional manager type that the decision is the manager's to make. Walmart's "policy" is basically "no policy"... leaving any decision up to the local store manager. Sounds like a major cop-out to me. My guess is that Walmart as a corporation is playing games... they don't like OC or CC but don't want to have it known that they have an "official" policy prohibiting firearms. Just place responsibility at the local level and then claim that Walmart itself follows "local law/ policy", wink wink.

    Disappointing to say the least. I will, however, follow their wish and not carry in their stores... I will never set foot in one again so that won't be a problem. If thay want to have a "No Carry" policy, that is their business. But, I do not respect the way that they have chosen to handle the issue; at least have the decency to admit that they (Walmart) are opposed to people carrying firearms either cc or oc in their stores.

    I've OCd for over 2 years and have legally CC'd for 3 years and this is the first negative experience that I have had. I have never seen a sign prohibiting firearms in any private business in Michigan, so the private property issue never struck me as a large issue here as compared to other states. I will, however, abide by their decision and I appreciate that a major competitor is located within 3 miles of this store.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    I hate to tell you this, and I know you ain't gonna like it, but that corporate policy of "honor state laws" cuts both ways.

    If your state statutes provide that private property owners, or their agents (store managers), can prohibit carry of firearms onto their property, they can, while still "honoring state laws".
    Is there a state where a private property owner or their agent CAN'T prohibit firearms in their store??
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Well I finally have a concrete reason not to shop at Walmart... besides the horible service and filthy restrooms
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    DrTodd wrote:
    I've been asked to post this here:

    DrTodd wrote:
    Well, it finally happened. After OCing without incident for over two years, I
    SNIP
    Sounds like fantastic motivation to stay out of the Chinese factory emporium and give all your business to local mom and pop stores who would love to have the local cash coming back their way.

    F' em!

    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when you’re serious and when you’re being sarcastic. –Abraham Lincoln

  11. #11
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    ChinChin wrote:
    DrTodd wrote:
    I've been asked to post this here:

    DrTodd wrote:
    Well, it finally happened. After OCing without incident for over two years, I
    SNIP
    Sounds like fantastic motivation to stay out of the Chinese factory emporium and give all your business to local mom and pop stores who would love to have the local cash coming back their way.

    F' em!
    I agree...for me it was purely convenience. But, now that I know that I can't carry in my local Walmart and carry in any other Walmart is an arbitrary decision left entirely up to the manager of the store, I will shop elsewhere. Begging for permission to be able to spend my money is something I refuse to do. Perhaps enough people doing likewise will cause Walmart to reconsider.

    I am hesitant to really discuss this further with my local Walmart. My issue is not so much with the prohibition as it is with the way Walmart leaves it up to the managers to decide the carry of firearms on a case-by-case basis. This personalizes it. My fellow carriers who have a license to carry concealed can carry as they always have in the store because they have not been informed that it is prohibited; I on the other hand am singled out as falling under the prohibition. Policy that is enforced in such an arbitrary fashion is worse than an outright ban because it is personalized, as determined by a manager's whim.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  12. #12
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    DrTodd wrote:
    ChinChin wrote:
    DrTodd wrote:
    I've been asked to post this here:

    DrTodd wrote:
    Well, it finally happened. After OCing without incident for over two years, I
    SNIP
    Sounds like fantastic motivation to stay out of the Chinese factory emporium and give all your business to local mom and pop stores who would love to have the local cash coming back their way.

    F' em!
    I agree...for me it was purely convenience. But, now that I know that I can't carry in my local Walmart and carry in any other Walmart is an arbitrary decision left entirely up to the manager of the store, I will shop elsewhere. Begging for permission to be able to spend my money is something I refuse to do. Perhaps enough people doing likewise will cause Walmart to reconsider.

    I am hesitant to really discuss this further with my local Walmart. My issue is not so much with the prohibition as it is with the way Walmart leaves it up to the managers to decide the carry of firearms on a case-by-case basis. This personalizes it. My fellow carriers who have a license to carry concealed can carry as they always have in the store because they have not been informed that it is prohibited; I on the other hand am singled out as falling under the prohibition. Policy that is enforced in such an arbitrary fashion is worse than an outright ban because it is personalized, as determined by a manager's whim.
    Could it be that your fellow carriers have been CC'ing all this time, while you have been OC'ing? The manager isn't going to inform the other carriers if he doesn't know they are armed. OK? I don't believe this has become presonalized as you say.

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    autosurgeon wrote:
    Well I finally have a concrete reason not to shop at Walmart... besides the horible service and filthy restrooms
    Interesting.

    My father in law works at Wal Mart in South Haven.

    You guessed it, one of his responsibilities is keeping the restrooms clean!

    To hear him tell it, it isn't always the store's fault, the customers do some nasty things.

    Anyone have any experience at WM in SH with OC?

  14. #14
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    DrTodd wrote:
    ChinChin wrote:
    DrTodd wrote:
    I've been asked to post this here:

    DrTodd wrote:
    Well, it finally happened. After OCing without incident for over two years, I
    SNIP
    Sounds like fantastic motivation to stay out of the Chinese factory emporium and give all your business to local mom and pop stores who would love to have the local cash coming back their way.

    F' em!
    I agree...for me it was purely convenience. But, now that I know that I can't carry in my local Walmart and carry in any other Walmart is an arbitrary decision left entirely up to the manager of the store, I will shop elsewhere. Begging for permission to be able to spend my money is something I refuse to do. Perhaps enough people doing likewise will cause Walmart to reconsider.

    I am hesitant to really discuss this further with my local Walmart. My issue is not so much with the prohibition as it is with the way Walmart leaves it up to the managers to decide the carry of firearms on a case-by-case basis. This personalizes it. My fellow carriers who have a license to carry concealed can carry as they always have in the store because they have not been informed that it is prohibited; I on the other hand am singled out as falling under the prohibition. Policy that is enforced in such an arbitrary fashion is worse than an outright ban because it is personalized, as determined by a manager's whim.
    Could it be that your fellow carriers have been CC'ing all this time, while you have been OC'ing? The manager isn't going to inform the other carriers if he doesn't know they are armed. OK? I don't believe this has become presonalized as you say.
    Perhaps... but that does not in any way negate my argument concerning the personalization of the prohibition. Perhaps stated another way... by saying 'we follow state law' implies that if it is legal, it is allowed. If they want to ban the carry of firearms, which is what the manager told me WAS the true policy of Walmart, then they should be honest enough to state clearly what the policy is. However, by explaining the policy is "x", but then arbitrarily saying firearms are not allowed in this store is a lie. It can't be both...

    Michigan law allows people to carry openly, and I have a CPL which specifically states that I am allowed to carry a concealed firearm ANYWHERE in the state. Both the general firearm law and the CPL law have exceptions; Wallmart would be an exception under Michigan's general firearm laws but is not listed as a prohibited place under the CPL law.
    I've carried in the store in question at least 100 times over the last few years without a problem.

    When I was stopped by the manager, I was told that Walmart's official policy is not to allow firearms in their stores. When I responded that I understood policy was to follow state law, he said that I was wrong. Despite writing the corporate headquarters, I have not received anything that indicates that his interpretation is erroneous.

    BTW, I also asked if the gun had upset anyone in particular or otherwise caused a disturbance, which seems to be a reasonable assumption, as I was asked to leave; he answered that I had not. Therefore, my only conclusion, based upon my communication with him, is that Walmart has a "no firearms" policy.

    Since the dissemination of the true policy seems to be left to the local store, I can only interpret such behavior as a desire by Walmart to not make their policy public for fear it may affect sales. Therefore, it is apparent that they believe by individually informing customers that are discovered to be carrying that they can't have a firearm in the store, yet not posting this fact, Walmart is hoping that the "real" policy is never verifiable. They can officially just claim that they "follow state law"; even though they are opposed to law-abiding citizens carrying firearms in their stores.

    Since I teach, I find their behavior analogous to me giving my students a syllabus at the beginning of the semester stating that grades are based on the attainment of certain test and assignment scores and then, because it really is my "legal" prerogative, I just decide to give certain students grades based upon how I feel about them being in my class. If my real policy were discovered, no one would take my class; I'll pretend to follow the syllabus that I hand out. Then no one knows and I don't suffer from an absence of students. Does this happen? Probably, and I find the mere possibility detestable. I think you would too, especially if you happen to be one of the students to whom a poor grade is given because of some personal whim unrelated to the test scores and assignments I said would be used to determine the grades.

    I repeat... I don't begrudge the policy... I just have issue with the dishonest way in which Walmart states what their policy is. Either firearms are allowed or they are not. This "following state law" response is a dishonest way to do business as it truly isn't the policy of Walmart.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    I have OCed in the SH Walmart... the last time was in the hours before the SH picnic to get charcoal and ice...
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  16. #16
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    DrTodd wrote:
    ChinChin wrote:
    DrTodd wrote:
    I've been asked to post this here:

    DrTodd wrote:
    Well, it finally happened. After OCing without incident for over two years, I
    SNIP
    Sounds like fantastic motivation to stay out of the Chinese factory emporium and give all your business to local mom and pop stores who would love to have the local cash coming back their way.

    F' em!
    I agree...for me it was purely convenience. But, now that I know that I can't carry in my local Walmart and carry in any other Walmart is an arbitrary decision left entirely up to the manager of the store, I will shop elsewhere. Begging for permission to be able to spend my money is something I refuse to do. Perhaps enough people doing likewise will cause Walmart to reconsider.
    Wal-Mart (WMT) revenues in 2008 = $405.6 billion.


  17. #17
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    I CC all the time in WalMarts all over NC. They have no signs posted, so under NC law, they would have no legal grounds to deny me access to their facilities.

    If for some reason, someone saw my firearm, or I decided to OC, they would not have any legal grounds to ask me to leave either, because they have no signs posted prohibiting firearms. However, if I was asked to leave, I would, and gladly take my money somewhere else.

    In either case, before I left, I would hand them one of my "no guns = no money" cards, and inform them that neither I or my family members would not be shopping in their store in the future, due to their policy.

    This is yet another good reason for having a CC permit if you're going to OC.

    Of course, it's also a good reason to not shop at your local WalMart. Personally, I rarely shop there, because they are just a conduit for funneling our hard-earned money to China. The only things I buy with any regularity at WalMart are things I know are made here in the US--bulk ammo and bulk tubs of cat litter. The way I see it, my purchase history at WalMart is sort of a personal statement on what I think of their corporate policies...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    HankT wrote:
    SNIP
    Wal-Mart (WMT) revenues in 2008 = $405.6 billion.
    Yes Hank, we get it...OK!!!

  19. #19
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    DrTodd wrote:
    My original letter WAS to corporate; they passed it down to be dealt with at the store level.
    I suggest following back up with corporate, with a transcription of this phone call.



  20. #20
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    Well, DrTodd

    I think that what you have esperienced is a taste of assistant manager policy and not coporate policy. IOC'd in the local WM in Hohenwald, Tn. last night without problem as usual. There was even a Lewis County Sheriff's deputy that walked up to the ammo counter while I was looking a the empty handgun ammo shelf. He didn't say a word about my weapon, nor did anyone else in the store.

    But, then, this is Tennessee, where most folks don't get bent out of shape over the sight of a firearm, not even the LEO.


    Here's something else for you to shew on. There is no way that Walmart can enforce a "No Firearms" policy against CC, and they know it. Not unless they want to put metal detectors and security officers with wands at every entrance. They aren't going to do that. The only thing they CAN enforce is a "No OC" policy.

    What I think you have run into is a dimwit anti-gunAM that seems to think that only people that OC are armed and doesn't understand that there could be many more in the store carrying arms CC, because he doesn't see those weapons. It's that old "Out of sight, out of mind" mentality.

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    DrTodd wrote:
    curtiswr wrote:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum7/14689.html

    There is a user (Parabellum) in that thread who posted a call to Wal-Mart which clarified that corporate policy is to honor state laws for the state whatever store you are going to is in.
    When I was stopped by the Assistant Manager, I informed him that I believed that the "honor state laws" was corporate policy. The Assistant Manager informed me that my belief was wrong.
    that manager is wrong. Walmart like so many other companies only prohibit employees from carrying when on the job.

    there is no corporate policy banning guns.

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    I am new to having my license to carry firearms permit issued in Pennsylvania. I live in the Erie, PA area and have already asked Walmart prior to carrying in the store if I was violating any of their policies in carrying my gun while in the store. I explained that I had a license to carry and they responded to me very respectfully that I could carry anytime within the store. They explained they had no policy that prohibts doing so. I plan on carrying while in Walmart myself, but found it very unfortunate that others of you did not receive the same response. With as many honey do lists that my wife often has going it would be very inconvienent to have to leave my gun in the car. Plus, doesn't that defeat the purpose!

    Randall

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    Gunowners, generally being people that respect fairness and a high level of business ethics, should NEVER shop at Walmart regardless of their position on firearms carry. My position on this is the result of first hand knowledge of Walmart's current practice of suing (blackmailng) U.S. based construction material suppliers simply to pump up their bottom line. The case I'm familiar with has absolutely no merit. It was initiated by a high-powered Dallas ambulance chaser. Walmart allows these crooks to go through their books looking for opportunities to leverage their good American suppliers who have become addicted to the narcotic of Walmart volume. These sharks are paid purely on contingency so it doesn't cost WM a dime. Most of the victims settle, not out of fear of losing the case but from fear of losing the business if they win. This is the most corrupt and unethical behavior I have ever witnessed in my 30+ years in business. BEWARE if you are a domestic Walmart supplier!

  24. #24
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    classic747guy wrote:
    I am new to having my license to carry firearms permit issued in Pennsylvania. I live in the Erie, PA area and have already asked Walmart prior to carrying in the store if I was violating any of their policies in carrying my gun while in the store. I explained that I had a license to carry and they responded to me very respectfully that I could carry anytime within the store. They explained they had no policy that prohibts doing so. I plan on carrying while in Walmart myself, but found it very unfortunate that others of you did not receive the same response. With as many honey do lists that my wife often has going it would be very inconvienent to have to leave my gun in the car. Plus, doesn't that defeat the purpose!

    Randall
    I can tell you that I open carried in Walmart and several other stores whileI was in Erie in August and had NO problems from anyone. I got a couple of odd looks while in Krispy Kreme but noone said anything.
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    Set up a meeting with the General Manager. There are 27 assistant managers at any particular WalMart (hyperbole included free of charge) and they do not have the final say.



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