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Chicago Teen Murdered On Camera

Deanimator

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rodbender wrote:
Deanimator wrote:
uncoolperson wrote:
HankT wrote:
No knives and no guns were used in Thursday's fight. Just fists, feet and boards.

Derrion Albert, 16, was struck in the head by one of those boards.


Are boards covered by
It is a bad strategy to shoot an unarmed person.
Actually, they were railroad ties, not "boards". Instead of the Three Stooges, think of James Arness as the monster in the "The Thing from Another World". That was the image I immediately had when I saw that cur hit the kid. Maybe Daley's growing thousands more like him, nourished on human blood. In a metaphorical sense, nothing could be closer to the truth.
Railroad ties!!? I don't think there is a man on earth that can swing a railroad tie like baseball bat. Give me a break.
Have you seen the video? They didn't swing them like a baseball bat. They used the weight of the tie in an overhead motion, as I recall. They most definitely were NOT "boards".
 

Carnivore

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Please tell us you've at least seen 1 railroad/switch tie in you life, I've got a couple in the front yard, if you need a visual for a comparison as to the size of a railroad tie, I'll get the camera out for you.. Those definitely weren't railroad ties! get out your paypal , I'll bet you just from seeing the video, $500 that those definitely weren't ties!!
 

HankT

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Deanimator wrote:
rodbender wrote:
Deanimator wrote:

Actually, they were railroad ties, not "boards". Instead of the Three Stooges, think of James Arness as the monster in the "The Thing from Another World". That was the image I immediately had when I saw that cur hit the kid. Maybe Daley's growing thousands more like him, nourished on human blood. In a metaphorical sense, nothing could be closer to the truth.
Railroad ties!!? I don't think there is a man on earth that can swing a railroad tie like baseball bat. Give me a break.
Have you seen the video? They didn't swing them like a baseball bat. They used the weight of the tie in an overhead motion, as I recall. They most definitely were NOT "boards".


Yeah, D, tell 'em!

Here's a still pic that got edited from the video.

PROOF that Deanimator is right!

laborers-carrying-railroad.jpg
 

uncoolperson

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HankT wrote:
uncoolperson wrote:
HankT wrote:
No knives and no guns were used in Thursday's fight. Just fists, feet and boards.

Derrion Albert, 16, was struck in the head by one of those boards.


Are boards covered by
It is a bad strategy to shoot an unarmed person.
I'm not sure what you're asking, UP.

What do you mean?
would boards, hands and feet qualify as armed people?
 

HankT

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uncoolperson wrote:
HankT wrote:
uncoolperson wrote:
HankT wrote:
No knives and no guns were used in Thursday's fight. Just fists, feet and boards.

Derrion Albert, 16, was struck in the head by one of those boards.


Are boards covered by
It is a bad strategy to shoot an unarmed person.
I'm not sure what you're asking, UP.

What do you mean?
would boards, hands and feet qualify as armed people?

You're not being specific enough in your question. First you asked about "boards." Now you refer to "hands and feet" "as armed people."

Stick with the "boards" question and rephrase, please.
 
B

Bikenut

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uncoolperson wrote:
HankT wrote:
uncoolperson wrote:
HankT wrote:
No knives and no guns were used in Thursday's fight. Just fists, feet and boards.

Derrion Albert, 16, was struck in the head by one of those boards.


Are boards covered by
It is a bad strategy to shoot an unarmed person.
I'm not sure what you're asking, UP.

What do you mean?
would boards, hands and feet qualify as armed people?
From Merriam Webster online dictionary:

Main Entry: [sup]
1[/sup]weap·on
Pronunciation: ˈwe-pənFunction: noun Etymology: Middle English wepen, from Old English wǣpen; akin to Old High German wāffan weapon, Old Norse vāpnDate: before 12th century

1
: something (as a club, knife, or gun) used to injure, defeat, or destroy

2
: a means of contending against another


All too often folks stop reading that definition at #1 neglecting to notice the second definition of "weapon".

From Dictionary.com

mean

–noun

1.
Usually, means. (used with a singular or plural verb
thinsp.png
) an agency, instrument, or method used to attain an end: The telephone is a means of communication. There are several means of solving the problem.


Anything (agency, instrument, or method) that is used (the means) to attain the end of inflicting injury, great bodily harm, or death is technically a "weapon" according to the second definition of ... "weapon". Hence someone who is beaten to death with just the attacker's fists and feet was killed by the (instruments) "weapons" of................. fists and feet.

Or.. and an old woman who is strangled by the empty hands of a young man was killed with the (instruments) weapons of.... empty hands.

Anything... anything at all... that is used to inflict great bodily harm or death is a "weapon". Anyone with a grain of common sense understands that concept.

One of the real world facts that Hank's "postulate" does not recognize is that there is no such thing as an unarmed person... unless that person was born without arms to bludgeon someone with, legs to kick someone with, and teeth to bite someone with... or somehow lost all of those in an accident.

And I'll leave you all with this:

From The Free Dictionary.com

deadly weapon n. any weapon which can kill. This includes not only weapons which are intended to do harm like a gun or knife, but also blunt instruments like clubs, baseball bats, monkey wrenches, an automobile or any object which actually causes death. This becomes important when trying to prove criminal charges brought for assault with a deadly weapon. In a few 1990s cases courts have found rocks and even penises of AIDS sufferers as "deadly weapons."


Edited to say: Any bold and/or italics within the quoted definitions was added by me for emphasis.
 

rodbender

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Interceptor_Knight wrote:
Wasn't the death actually caused by the kid(s) stomping on his head once he was knocked down????
Does it really matter? He would not have been on the ground if he hadn't been hit with the board (railroad tie).
 

HankT

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rodbender wrote:
Interceptor_Knight wrote:
Wasn't the death actually caused by the kid(s) stomping on his head once he was knocked down????
Does it really matter? He would not have been on the ground if he hadn't been hit with the board (railroad tie).
Thank God he wasn't hit with a concrete tie. Those are really deadly...
 

Interceptor_Knight

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rodbender wrote:
Interceptor_Knight wrote:
Wasn't the death actually caused by the kid(s) stomping on his head once he was knocked down????
Does it really matter? He would not have been on the ground if he hadn't been hit with the board (railroad tie).
Sure it does. It is one thing to hit someone with a board, stick, pole, whatever.... It is another thing to curb stomp them....Even if he would have lived or even not had serious long lasting effects. One could be simple battery which is a misdemeanor in WI. The other isSubstanial Battery with Intent to cause Substantial Bodily Harm and is a Felony.
[align=left]
940.19 Battery; substantial battery; aggravated battery.(1)
Whoever causes bodily harm to another by an act done with intent to cause bodily harm to that person or another without the consent of the person so harmed is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor. (2) Whoever causes substantial bodily harm to another by an act done with intent to cause bodily harm to that person or another is guilty of a Class I felony. (4) Whoever causes great bodily harm to another by an act done with intent to cause bodily harm to that person or another is guilty of a Class H felony. (5) Whoever causes great bodily harm to another by an act done with intent to cause great bodily harm to that person or another is guilty of a Class E felony. (6) Whoever intentionally causes bodily harm to another by conduct that creates a substantial risk of great bodily harm is guilty of a Class H felony. A rebuttable presumption of conduct creating a substantial risk of great bodily harm arises: (a) If the person harmed is 62 years of age or older; or (b) If the person harmed has a physical disability, whether congenital or acquired by accident, injury or disease, that is discernible by an ordinary person viewing the physically disabled person, or that is actually known by the actor.
History: 1977 c. 173; 1979 c. 111, 113; 1987 a. 399; 1993 a. 441, 483; 2001 a. 109. Under the “elements only” test, offenses under subsections that require proof of nonconsent are not lesser included offenses of offenses under subsections for which proof of nonconsent is not required. State v. Richards, 123 Wis. 2d 1, 365 N.W.2d 7 (1985). “Physical disability” is discussed. State v. Crowley, 143 Wis. 2d 324, 422 N.W.2d 847 (1988). First−degree reckless injury, s. 940.23 (1), is not a lesser included offense of aggravated battery. State v. Eastman, 185 Wis. 2d 405, 518 N.W.2d 257 (Ct. App. 1994). The act of throwing urine that strikes another and causes pain constitutes a battery. State v. Higgs, 230 Wis. 2d 1, 601 N.W.2d 653 (Ct. App. 1999), 98−1811. Section 941.20 (1), 1st−degree recklessly endangering safety, is not a lesser included offense of sub. (5), aggravated battery. State v. Dibble, 2002 WI App 219, 257 Wis. 2d. 274, 650 N.W.2d 908, 02−0538.
[/align]


Battery - Great Bodily Harm
Anyone who causes great bodily harm to another person (including an adult, child, unborn child, or mother of an unborn child) by an act done with intent to cause bodily harm to that person or to another person is guilty of a Class H felony. If the intent was to cause great bodily harm, then the charge is a Class E felony. If the person intentionally causes bodily harm to another by conduct that creates a substantial risk of great bodily harm can be charged with a Class H felony.

Great Bodily Harm Defined
Wisconsin law defines great bodily harm as bodily injury which creates a substantial risk of death, serious permanent disfigurement, or a permanent or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily member or organ, or other serious bodily injury.

http://www.legis.state.wi.us/statutes/Stat0940.pdf
 

dasfzero

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if i was the armed civilian there i would be running to a phone callin 911 and not gettin into the middle of a gang fight....

there were atleast 2 dozen kids (gang members) involved there. you shoot one gang member the rest will jump you... how many rounds does your side arm hold?
 

Deanimator

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dasfzero wrote:
if i was the armed civilian there i would be running to a phone callin 911 and not gettin into the middle of a gang fight....

there were atleast 2 dozen kids (gang members) involved there. you shoot one gang member the rest will jump you... how many rounds does your side arm hold?
The problem with dialing 911 in Chicago is, "Who comes (IF they come) when you do?"

Calling the Chicago Police Department to the scene of a gang fight, just brings more criminals (and sometime actual gang members) into the mix.

I've seen a bunch of ninnies in the media wondering why none of the kids taking pictures "called the cops". Clearly, NONE of these ninnies has ever lived in Chicago. People don't call the Chicago PD because they don't trust it. They don't trust it not to commit additional crimes. They don't trust it not to feed identities of witnesses to fellow gang members.
 

D94R

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I watched the few seconds of the video, right before he gets nailed, over and over and over again. As far as I can tell, he takes a swing at a kid as the kid runs by him, then he gets jacked in the head by the board.

I see no where that he is "innocent" in any of this. Taking a swing at another person puts him as being involved 100% and responsible for his own consequences. Sad he had to die from a petty gang fight. I have no sympathy for him though.




Also, it's impossible to discern that the kid at the end getting kicked in the head repeatedly is the same kid who at 46seconds is the one who gets hit with the board. The camera moves away, and the location of the from where the kid is kicked and where the kid is hit with the board is different.

If it's the same kid, my first opinion stands. If it's a different kid, and he truly wasn't involved then that truly is a sad outcome for him.


Either way I still believe anyone there has little to no innocense in the matter. High school wasn't that long ago that I don't remember what took place during an after school fight, or the reasons that "other people" were there.

Honor student or not, he is not innocent in this.
 
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