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Thread: What gun meets these parameters?

  1. #1
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    I’m starting the search for an auto. It’ll be used for both CC and OC, but “super small” isn’t a requirement.

    I know what features I like, but am having a rough time combing through the pantheon of makes and models, so I thought I’d just post my list of requirements and see what you fine folks recommend.

    My requirements are:
    1. Auto
    2. Not[/b] single-action only.
    3. 9mm
    4. Manual Safety
    5. Full grip (grip extensions attached to the clip don’t qualify, I want a full grip on the gun itself).
    6. Stainless, titanium, or polymer finish.
    7. “Drop” safety.
    8. External hammer (preferred).
    9. Won’t break the bank (preferred).

    My perfect gun would be either the Walther P22 (IF it were 9mm) or the CZ 97B Stainless (IF you could engage the safety with the hammer down).


    Now, I know a lot of you are going to want to try and argue some of these requirements (namely the combination of 2 and 4). I’ve read the debates and had several of them in person. Don’t bother, I know what I want and I like what I like.

    I know that several Taurus models fit the bill. I was just wondering if there might be others I’m unaware of.

    Thanks all!


  2. #2
    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
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    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

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    If it had an external safety I'd be going with the P99 for sure. I've held a P22 and it's like butter in your hand.

    And of course they come from 3 of the priciest manufacturers! LOL

    I'll look into those, though. Thanks.

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    USP 9mm maybe... you didn't specify new only.

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    rashley wrote:
    If it had an external safety I'd be going with the P99 for sure. I've held a P22 and it's like butter in your hand.

    And of course they come from 3 of the priciest manufacturers! LOL

    I'll look into those, though. Thanks.
    Yeah, I thought of that - I threw it in there because it has the decocker and is a traditional double action pistol. It is safe.

    Springfield XD's are also an option - they have two external safeties(a grip safety and a trigger safety), but they don't have the exposed hammer or an external lever safety.

    Perhaps try one of the many1911's in 9mm. They will have all the options you are requesting but are also on the pricey side.


    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

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    I'm partial to the XD's (new .45 has optional thumb safety) myself but I recently saw an inside look at FNH's factory on American Rifleman/Outdoor TV. It's my understanding that they try to keep the price under $600
    Maybe this:


    http://www.fnherstal.com/index.php?i...=5&detail=

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    rashley wrote:
    My requirements are:
    1. Auto
    2. Not[/b] single-action only.
    3. 9mm
    4. Manual Safety
    5. Full grip (grip extensions attached to the clip don’t qualify, I want a full grip on the gun itself).
    6. Stainless, titanium, or polymer finish.
    7. “Drop” safety.
    8. External hammer (preferred).
    9. Won’t break the bank (preferred).
    HK USP

    Beretta 92

    Para Ordinance LDA

    Those are some I can think of off the top of my head.
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    Ruger P95 would be a good choice. Very reliable for less than $400.

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    rashley wrote:
    5. Full grip (grip extensions attached to the clip don’t qualify, I want a full grip on the gun itself).
    What's a clip?

    CZ-85

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    FNH-FNP-9 series.



    I believe this gun meets all of your parameters.



    http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/fi...amp;gid=FNG001


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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Ruger P seriesis definitely a solid option if you want affordable.
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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    S&W 945, 952, 910, 915, 5906, 6906, 908

    Taurus PT 92

    EAA/Witness

    just to name a few
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    Youmight look into some of the older models that fall under C&R.

    CZ82-83 9mm (Makarov 9x18) Former Czech Mil/police issue

    Anything that uses the Makarov ammo, right now it (Russian ammo)is the most available of all the handgun ammo.

  15. #15
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    You may want to consider a HiPoint .40 cal. Full Frame.

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    The stainless version of the 92FS fits your description very well, although the frame itself is aluminum and not titanium, stainless, or polymer.
    (Sounds like you are looking for corrosion resistance though, where aluminum is a good choice.)

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    .40 Cal wrote:
    rashley wrote:
    5. Full grip (grip extensions attached to the clip don’t qualify, I want a full grip on the gun itself).
    What's a clip?

    CZ-85
    Clip? Used to be for roaches ...or something. I have that pet peeve also...a magazine ain't something you read on a gun.

    I recently bought a CZ 75. Likely too big for what the poster wants, but what a great gun. Was at the Chantilly, Va Gun Show Friday and asked my favorite dealer if the CZ 75 I had bought from him previously would handle 9mm +P+. His answer was that he'd heard of Glocks and Sigs and Kel Tecs having trouble with +P+, but never heard of that with a CZ. Went on to say they are rugged all steel guns that are built to last.

    Ok, Glock and Sig guys I'm not taking a shot at those great guns, just saying what David told me. As for Kel Tec, anyone putting +P+ thru one is nuts. At most it'll take limited +P use and I won't even put one shot of that thru my P 11.

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    I would think that if someone was concerned enough about the performance of their 9MM to want +P+ ammo they would probably be better served by moving to a 357SIG and not having to worry about the beating their gun will take. How much of a difference does that extra "+" make? No shot being taken, just curious...

  19. #19
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    longshot wrote:
    .40 Cal wrote:
    rashley wrote:
    5. Full grip (grip extensions attached to the clip don’t qualify, I want a full grip on the gun itself).
    What's a clip?

    CZ-85
    Clip? Used to be for roaches ...or something. I have that pet peeve also...a magazine ain't something you read on a gun.

    I recently bought a CZ 75. Likely too big for what the poster wants, but what a great gun. Was at the Chantilly, Va Gun Show Friday and asked my favorite dealer if the CZ 75 I had bought from him previously would handle 9mm +P+. His answer was that he'd heard of Glocks and Sigs and Kel Tecs having trouble with +P+, but never heard of that with a CZ. Went on to say they are rugged all steel guns that are built to last.

    Ok, Glock and Sig guys I'm not taking a shot at those great guns, just saying what David told me. As for Kel Tec, anyone putting +P+ thru one is nuts. At most it'll take limited +P use and I won't even put one shot of that thru my P 11.
    A lot of gun dealers have heard a lot of things.

    But here's this with regards to Glock and +P+ :

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=57653

    Glock Armorer's manual states that the G19 and G17 are rated for ammo up to 43,500psi.

    That's FAR in excess of any pressure numbers I've seen for commercial +P+ intended for pistol ammo.

    On another forum, there's a Norwegian (the Norwegian military uses the Glock 17) who claims that the L7A1 (That's the Hirtenberger subgun ammo in the BATF warning) is commonly used in the G17 pistols.

    He stated that it seems to reduce the pistol service life to around 50,000 rounds but that there have been no catastrophic failures.

    For the record I'm not advocating the use of the L7A1 ammo in any pistol--just passing on an anecdote.
    And:

    http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=901559

    Your owners manual will say any SAAMI or NATO Spec ammo.

    +P+ is a designation for SAAMI member companies to use when they load over SAAMI specification. It is not a SAAMI or NATO specification.

    But, the Glock Armorers Manual says that +P+ 9MM is fine in Glocks.

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    Meeting most of your requirements, especially "won't break the bank" is the dependable Hi-Point C9. Cleaning? Occasionally. Disassembly? Manufacturer doesn't recommend it.

    It may be ugly, but it works.

  21. #21
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    ruger SR9

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    smash29 wrote:
    I would think that if someone was concerned enough about the performance of their 9MM to want +P+ ammo they would probably be better served by moving to a 357SIG and not having to worry about the beating their gun will take. How much of a difference does that extra "+" make? No shot being taken, just curious...
    Hey Smash, I've never fired +P+ thru any gun and do not plan to do so in the future. However, I happened to be conversing with my fav dealer and asked the question out of curiousity, becauseI like to know that sort of thing. Let's say I'm at the range and someone says here dude you want a real pop try some +P+..........If I bit I'd like to know whether the CZ isstrong enough. I wasmerely sharing said info, because that's what we do here. It's fun.

    As for .357 SIG I'm sure it's a great round, but I bought my CZ to be a shooter and rare OC. Given that 9mm is more reasonably priced it was my choice for a shooter. Also, my first handgun was a .357 MagRuger GP 100 4" stainless. Love the .357 in its original form.



  23. #23
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    curtiswr wrote:
    longshot wrote:
    .40 Cal wrote:
    rashley wrote:
    5. Full grip (grip extensions attached to the clip don’t qualify, I want a full grip on the gun itself).
    What's a clip?

    CZ-85
    Clip? Used to be for roaches ...or something. I have that pet peeve also...a magazine ain't something you read on a gun.

    I recently bought a CZ 75. Likely too big for what the poster wants, but what a great gun. Was at the Chantilly, Va Gun Show Friday and asked my favorite dealer if the CZ 75 I had bought from him previously would handle 9mm +P+. His answer was that he'd heard of Glocks and Sigs and Kel Tecs having trouble with +P+, but never heard of that with a CZ. Went on to say they are rugged all steel guns that are built to last.

    Ok, Glock and Sig guys I'm not taking a shot at those great guns, just saying what David told me. As for Kel Tec, anyone putting +P+ thru one is nuts. At most it'll take limited +P use and I won't even put one shot of that thru my P 11.
    A lot of gun dealers have heard a lot of things.

    But here's this with regards to Glock and +P+ :

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=57653

    Glock Armorer's manual states that the G19 and G17 are rated for ammo up to 43,500psi.

    That's FAR in excess of any pressure numbers I've seen for commercial +P+ intended for pistol ammo.

    On another forum, there's a Norwegian (the Norwegian military uses the Glock 17) who claims that the L7A1 (That's the Hirtenberger subgun ammo in the BATF warning) is commonly used in the G17 pistols.

    He stated that it seems to reduce the pistol service life to around 50,000 rounds but that there have been no catastrophic failures.

    For the record I'm not advocating the use of the L7A1 ammo in any pistol--just passing on an anecdote.
    And:

    http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=901559

    Your owners manual will say any SAAMI or NATO Spec ammo.

    +P+ is a designation for SAAMI member companies to use when they load over SAAMI specification. It is not a SAAMI or NATO specification.

    But, the Glock Armorers Manual says that +P+ 9MM is fine in Glocks.
    curtiswr, Good Glock info. Like I said in my first post I wasn't taking a shot at Glcok or SIG or even KEL TEC (because, those shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as +P+). Just passing on info, which caused you to throw out more info. Good.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    rashley wrote:
    My requirements are:
    1. Auto
    2. Not single-action only.
    3. 9mm
    4. Manual Safety
    5. Full grip (grip extensions attached to the clip don’t qualify, I want a full grip on the gun itself).
    6. Stainless, titanium, or polymer finish.
    7. “Drop” safety.
    8. External hammer (preferred).
    9. Won’t break the bank (preferred).
    Look at the Para Ordnance Companion:

    http://www.para-usa.com/new/product_pistol.php?id=17

    .45acp, Commander-style frame, 3.5" barrel, 7rd capacity, and it has the Para Ord "LDA" trigger assembly, which essentially gived you a 1911 with a double-action trigger and hammer. You can carry one in the tube with the hammer down and it's TOTALLY safe due to the firing pin lockout and DA lockwork inside. Just like any other DA pistol.

    If you want something a little smaller, you need to look seriously at the Para Ordnance PDA:

    http://www.para-usa.com/new/product_pistol.php?id=66

    Available in 9mm or .45acp. 8+1 capacity in the 9mm, 6+1 in the 45, it's a sub-Officer's style frame with a 3" barrel. It's a little challenging to control for rapid firing in the .45acp platform, but the 9mm is about the same as other small-frame 9's.

    All Para's are built-to-last. Steel or forged aluminum receivers, billet-milled slides, match-grade barrels, and they have VERY crisp triggers right out of the box. And they are now made COMPLETELY in the USA, since they've moved their factory to Charlotte NC.

    My next carry pistol will most likely be another Para, probably the PDA in .45acp. The only other small-frame .45 I'd even consider spending money on is a Kimber or a Detonics, and the Para's tend to run about 25% less retail new,and are, IMO, better firearms. Also, Para has an astoundingly good warranty, and VERY friendly and helpful "tech support" people when you call them.

    It has been my experience that Para Ordnance is like the Apple Computer of the gun world--a little quirky and sometimes proprietary, but their products are without parallel, and their support is beyond reproach.

    You really owe it to yourself to looks at the Para's. If you're set on a 9mm, they make the only 1911 9mm worth a damn, AND its got the LDA trigger, making it a LOT more user-friendly than the older-style SA 1911's...

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    Wow, thanks everyone for all the great suggestions. There are some really nice guns recommended here.

    The other night my wife and I were talking about this and she said something to the effect of “You’ve been saying for years how much you want a CZ. We both know that’s what you’re going to end up with.”

    Ultimately I think she’s right. Darn it, she knows me too well.

    I really did want a DA with a manual safety, but I may just have to bite that bullet. The fact is the most fun I’ve EVER had shooting was with a CZ PCR. I’d never shot that well before nor have I since.

    Too bad the 75B Compact doesn’t come in stainless.

    Thanks for the input everybody. I really appreciate it!


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