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What gun meets these parameters?

gbentzen8

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smash29 wrote:
I would think that if someone was concerned enough about the performance of their 9MM to want +P+ ammo they would probably be better served by moving to a 357SIG and not having to worry about the beating their gun will take. How much of a difference does that extra "+" make? No shot being taken, just curious...

Hey Smash, I've never fired +P+ thru any gun and do not plan to do so in the future. However, I happened to be conversing with my fav dealer and asked the question out of curiousity, becauseI like to know that sort of thing. Let's say I'm at the range and someone says here dude you want a real pop try some +P+..........If I bit I'd like to know whether the CZ isstrong enough. I wasmerely sharing said info, because that's what we do here. It's fun.

As for .357 SIG I'm sure it's a great round, but I bought my CZ to be a shooter and rare OC. Given that 9mm is more reasonably priced it was my choice for a shooter. Also, my first handgun was a .357 MagRuger GP 100 4" stainless. Love the .357 in its original form.
 

gbentzen8

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curtiswr wrote:
longshot wrote:
.40 Cal wrote:
rashley wrote:
5. Full grip (grip extensions attached to the clip don’t qualify, I want a full grip on the gun itself).

What's a clip?

CZ-85

Clip? Used to be for roaches ...or something. I have that pet peeve also...a magazine ain't something you read on a gun.

I recently bought a CZ 75. Likely too big for what the poster wants, but what a great gun. Was at the Chantilly, Va Gun Show Friday and asked my favorite dealer if the CZ 75 I had bought from him previously would handle 9mm +P+. His answer was that he'd heard of Glocks and Sigs and Kel Tecs having trouble with +P+, but never heard of that with a CZ. Went on to say they are rugged all steel guns that are built to last.

Ok, Glock and Sig guys I'm not taking a shot at those great guns, just saying what David told me. As for Kel Tec, anyone putting +P+ thru one is nuts. At most it'll take limited +P use and I won't even put one shot of that thru my P 11.
A lot of gun dealers have heard a lot of things.

But here's this with regards to Glock and +P+ :

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=57653

Glock Armorer's manual states that the G19 and G17 are rated for ammo up to 43,500psi.

That's FAR in excess of any pressure numbers I've seen for commercial +P+ intended for pistol ammo.

On another forum, there's a Norwegian (the Norwegian military uses the Glock 17) who claims that the L7A1 (That's the Hirtenberger subgun ammo in the BATF warning) is commonly used in the G17 pistols.

He stated that it seems to reduce the pistol service life to around 50,000 rounds but that there have been no catastrophic failures.

For the record I'm not advocating the use of the L7A1 ammo in any pistol--just passing on an anecdote.

And:

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=901559

Your owners manual will say any SAAMI or NATO Spec ammo.

+P+ is a designation for SAAMI member companies to use when they load over SAAMI specification. It is not a SAAMI or NATO specification.

But, the Glock Armorers Manual says that +P+ 9MM is fine in Glocks.
curtiswr, Good Glock info. Like I said in my first post I wasn't taking a shot at Glcok or SIG or even KEL TEC (because, those shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as +P+). Just passing on info, which caused you to throw out more info. Good.
 

Dreamer

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rashley wrote:
My requirements are:
1. Auto
2. Not single-action only.
3. 9mm
4. Manual Safety
5. Full grip (grip extensions attached to the clip don’t qualify, I want a full grip on the gun itself).
6. Stainless, titanium, or polymer finish.
7. “Drop” safety.
8. External hammer (preferred).
9. Won’t break the bank (preferred).
Look at the Para Ordnance Companion:

http://www.para-usa.com/new/product_pistol.php?id=17

.45acp, Commander-style frame, 3.5" barrel, 7rd capacity, and it has the Para Ord "LDA" trigger assembly, which essentially gived you a 1911 with a double-action trigger and hammer. You can carry one in the tube with the hammer down and it's TOTALLY safe due to the firing pin lockout and DA lockwork inside. Just like any other DA pistol.

If you want something a little smaller, you need to look seriously at the Para Ordnance PDA:

http://www.para-usa.com/new/product_pistol.php?id=66

Available in 9mm or .45acp. 8+1 capacity in the 9mm, 6+1 in the 45, it's a sub-Officer's style frame with a 3" barrel. It's a little challenging to control for rapid firing in the .45acp platform, but the 9mm is about the same as other small-frame 9's.

All Para's are built-to-last. Steel or forged aluminum receivers, billet-milled slides, match-grade barrels, and they have VERY crisp triggers right out of the box. And they are now made COMPLETELY in the USA, since they've moved their factory to Charlotte NC.

My next carry pistol will most likely be another Para, probably the PDA in .45acp. The only other small-frame .45 I'd even consider spending money on is a Kimber or a Detonics, and the Para's tend to run about 25% less retail new,and are, IMO, better firearms. Also, Para has an astoundingly good warranty, and VERY friendly and helpful "tech support" people when you call them.

It has been my experience that Para Ordnance is like the Apple Computer of the gun world--a little quirky and sometimes proprietary, but their products are without parallel, and their support is beyond reproach.

You really owe it to yourself to looks at the Para's. If you're set on a 9mm, they make the only 1911 9mm worth a damn, AND its got the LDA trigger, making it a LOT more user-friendly than the older-style SA 1911's...
 

rashley

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Wow, thanks everyone for all the great suggestions. There are some really nice guns recommended here.

The other night my wife and I were talking about this and she said something to the effect of “You’ve been saying for years how much you want a CZ. We both know that’s what you’re going to end up with.”

Ultimately I think she’s right. Darn it, she knows me too well.

I really did want a DA with a manual safety, but I may just have to bite that bullet. The fact is the most fun I’ve EVER had shooting was with a CZ PCR. I’d never shot that well before nor have I since.

Too bad the 75B Compact doesn’t come in stainless.

Thanks for the input everybody. I really appreciate it!
 

rashley

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For any who may for some reason beinterested, I made the purchase this weekend at the Eastman gun show.

Much to my own surprise I ended up going home with a Taurus 709 Slim.

You know how it is, I put it in my hand and just had to have it.

And at $370 I had enough left over for a holdster, mag loader, GeorgiaCarry.org membership, and ammo and still stayed under the budget I'd set myself.

Haven't had a chance to shoot her yet... can't wait till I have time to get to the range!
 

TechnoWeenie

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curtiswr wrote:
Beretta 92 Inox

http://www.gunshopfinder.com/beretta/92FSinox.asp

92FS_Inox.jpg


I'll 2nd and add the Taurus PT-92.... Inexpensive new, even less expensive used.

Easy to clean, disassemble, etc.
 

user

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For those who don't appreciate the tongue-in-cheek humor about what a "clip" is, a clip is a device used to hold ammo that can be pushed down into a rifle in order to load the integral magazine in the rifle.

I take it the OP does not want DAO; he specified no SAO, but it would appear from the external safety etc. that he wants DA/SA. I don't recommend that, myself, I'd go with the Sig 226 DAK for full size and the 229 DAK for compact.
 

Hawkflyer

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While academic at this point, it is interesting how a guy can post a specific set of criteria and get such a wide range of non-compliant responses. Many of the responses are in fact non-compliant in one or more way. I know everyone wants to push their favorite toy, but first answer the guys question in case there are others looking for the same thing.

The closest responses I saw in this thread were the EAA Witness line of products, and the Taurus 92. The witness is in an italian made copy of the basic CZ 75 design and the Taurus is a copy of what the Beretta was before the US military competition messed up the Beretta design.

Of all of the recommendations made here the best is probably the EAA because it meets all of the OPs requirements, it is almost identical to the CZ design he already likes except it fixes the one issue he had with the CZ, AND it can be caliber converted (.22, 9mm, .40, .45, etc.) by replacing the slide barrel and magazine. Best of all the cost is under 500 at most shows, and if you are patient you can find them for under 400.

Regards
 

user

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It's conceivable that there are some folks who feel that the criteria ought to be reconsidered. No harm in making suggestions, I reckon, as long as they be made in a civil manner.
 

Hawkflyer

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user wrote:
It's conceivable that there are some folks who feel that the criteria ought to be reconsidered. No harm in making suggestions, I reckon, as long as they be made in a civil manner.

Normally I would agree, but the title of the thread is "What gun meets these criteria".

So to simply offer alternative suggestions and explain that you realize that they do not meet the specifications the OP is looking for, without first answering the original question does a disservice to the OP and others who may follow.

It certainly is normal and expected that people have an opinion, but the opinion is more valuable if a person first proves they can read and comprehend the original question by answering it correctly.

Regards
 
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