Incorporation 101: The Second Amendment is no good here

Smurfologist · Oct 1, 2009

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I totally understand that people need to be able to protect themselves in their home. But, the chaos (in Chicago) is taking place on the streets of Chicago. I know this from first hand experience and you see it all over the news everyday. That kid that got killed that went to Fenger High School.........I grew up a half a block away from that school; I took Driver's Education at that school........You can be minding your own business; the next thing you are doing is dodging bullets. It happens all the time (and, believe me, this is no exaggeration).

If the road thatwe (us gun rights advocates)havebeen travelling onhere is the one thatwill ultimately lead us to be able to protect ourselves wherever we may be (home, at the mall, on the CTA, at the bus stop, in your car, etc), then I will be patient and let the legal system work all of the gun laws and the United States Constitution out!! Just my two cents. Keep the faith!!

The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1787!!:X

KS_to_CA · Oct 1, 2009

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Funny things is, like someone else mentioned, the US Congress cannot take away your gun, the President of the US cannot take away your gun, but the mayor and the city council can.

:banghead:

N6ATF · Oct 1, 2009

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CA_fr_KS wrote:

Funny things is, like someone else mentioned, the US Congress cannot take away your gun, the President of the US cannot take away your gun, but the mayor and the city council can.

:banghead:

They also can be arrested for treason... the war against law abiding citizens on behalf of criminals needs to end. We need to fight back with their own cherished tactics.

Smurfologist · Oct 1, 2009

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How does the term "Home Rule" apply in all of this?

The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1787!!:X

Kancho · Oct 2, 2009

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I always wonder, will technology get to a point where firearms are no longer the preferred weapon of self-defense?

The 2nd Amendment won't even apply, will it?

You know, lasers and plasma weapons, and my favorite (but a myth), a gun that shoots the "Brown Note".

Brass Magnet · Oct 2, 2009

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Kancho wrote:

I always wonder, will technology get to a point where firearms are no longer the preferred weapon of self-defense?

The 2nd Amendment won't even apply, will it?

You know, lasers and plasma weapons, and my favorite (but a myth), a gun that shoots the "Brown Note".

It should still apply AFAIK.

Even in Heller I remember the justices saying something about how; since the 4th now applies to electronics, the 2Ashouldn't only apply to muskets. It should apply to the prefered "Arms" of the time. "Arms in common use by the people".

N6ATF · Oct 2, 2009

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Kancho wrote:

I always wonder, will technology get to a point where firearms are no longer the preferred weapon of self-defense?

The 2nd Amendment won't even apply, will it?

You know, lasers and plasma weapons, and my favorite (but a myth), a gun that shoots the "Brown Note".

I hope not. Some sci-fi predicts ammo and modern pattern firearms are here to stay; I say it's because powered weapons need to have the energy level constantly ready before firing to work, unlike triggering chemical reactions on demand.

One hopes that rounds will continue to evolve, possibly coming in the form of ShockRounds or something else that will not exceed $1/round, but be able to immediately render the target unconscious rather than risk death from blood loss and organ failure.

KBCraig · Oct 2, 2009

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Kancho wrote:

I always wonder, will technology get to a point where firearms are no longer the preferred weapon of self-defense?

The 2nd Amendment won't even apply, will it?

You know, lasers and plasma weapons, and my favorite (but a myth), a gun that shoots the "Brown Note".

The "brown note cannon" would have been a lovely counter to the LRAD in Pittsburgh.

N6ATF · Oct 2, 2009

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Brown note is a busted myth anyway... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_note

SlackwareRobert · Oct 2, 2009

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I don't know I almost sh*t myself laughing when I watched the g20
rioters being gassed on the news.:uhoh:

But lets hear it for the international community telling the Obamas to go home!!:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

Section32 · Oct 2, 2009

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SlackwareRobert wrote:

I don't know I almost sh*t myself laughing when I watched the g20
rioters being gassed on the news.:uhoh:

But lets hear it for the international community telling the Obamas to go home!!:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

The IOC just saved American taxpayers 10-20 billion dollars that would have been needed to bail out the crooks and cronies in Chicago.

KBCraig · Oct 2, 2009

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SlackwareRobert wrote:

I don't know I almost sh*t myself laughing when I watched the g20
rioters being gassed on the news.:uhoh:

Did you laugh as hard at the U.Pitt students who weren't protesting or rioting, but were on the balconies and patios of their own dormitories, being gassed from one side, and being met with batons from the other side as they tried to get back inside?

N6ATF · Oct 2, 2009

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Section32 wrote:

SlackwareRobert wrote:

I don't know I almost sh*t myself laughing when I watched the g20
rioters being gassed on the news.:uhoh:

But lets hear it for the international community telling the Obamas to go home!!:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

Click to expand...

The IOC just saved American taxpayers 10-20 billion dollars that would have been needed to bail out the crooks and cronies in Chicago.

45acpForMe · Oct 2, 2009

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N6ATF wrote:

They also can be arrested for treason... the war against law abiding citizens on behalf of criminals needs to end. We need to fight back with their own cherished tactics.

In my humble opinion,mostof the politicians/judges should be arrested for treason. For example, how do you swear to uphold the constitution and then publicly state you would eliminate all guns from private citizens if you had the voteslike Senator Dianne Feinstein? Even the politicians that are trying to do what is right are locked into the system of extra-constitutional mechanisms like SS, Medic(are|aid), Federal Reserve, Income Tax, etc.

If the country wasn't in such a sad state I would call for a constitutional convention to "correct" some of the holes/perversions of the constitution but with the current leadership they would create something much worse.

We can always hope our rights are upheld and that the courts will do what is correct and moral. With all the hope and change floating around though I'll believe it when I see it. My pessimism doesn't mean we don't keep fighting the good fight.

My prediction is that whatever the Supreme Court decides it will be less than it should be and will be ignored or skirted by many states/cities. So don't plan on partying yet.

Evil Creamsicle · Oct 3, 2009

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Kancho wrote:

I always wonder, will technology get to a point where firearms are no longer the preferred weapon of self-defense?

The 2nd Amendment won't even apply, will it?

You know, lasers and plasma weapons, and my favorite (but a myth), a gun that shoots the "Brown Note".

really by the definition of the word 'arms' there ought to be preemption for knives and spears and shillelaghs and lightsabers and AIDS penises and pipebombs and katanas and plasma rifles and whatever else you have...

Evil Creamsicle · Oct 3, 2009

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jpierce wrote:

Even as you are reading this, the Second Amendment offers you no protection whatsoever from state gun laws! But today, the Supreme Court has agreed to hear the case of McDonald v. Chicago and we may soon finally see the Second Amendment take its rightful place as a protection for ALL Americans!

(Excerpt) Read more at http://www.opencarry.org/john/incorporation.html

Second Amendment – Right to Bear Arms

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Tenth Amendment– Powers of States and people.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Now... allow me to postulate here for a second.
The Bill of Rights is a list of 'Ratified Amendments to the Constitution', effectively making all of them a part of the Constitution itself.

The Second Amendment is a blanket statement, it does not specify to which government, Federal, State or Local, it is referring. The Tenth Amendment also implies that the Federal Constitution does have the power to regulate State governments.

So my thesis, then, would state that by the wording of the Second and Tenth amendments any and all firearms laws are prohibited.

Arguments? Things I overlooked?

N00blet45 · Oct 3, 2009

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I don't follow you.

From what I gather the bill of rights were seen as a limit on the federal government, not the states. From that line of thinking all federal firearm laws (NFA of 1934, GCA of 1968, etc) are unconstitutional but state firearm laws are not unless the constitution of the respective state has a provision guaranteeing a right to arms. The 14th amendment set the grounds for incorporation. It was brought about to make it illegal for the states (the southern states) to deny blacks their rights under the constitution.

The 10th amendment basically says that any power not granted to the federal government by the constitution is reserved to the states or to the people. Essentially any federal program not spelled out in the constitution is unconstitutional (Social Security, Medicare, FDA, Department of Education, and so on). If a state wanted to create any of those systems on their own they are constitutionally allowed to do so, so long as they do not exercise a power granted to the federal government by the constitution.

Evil Creamsicle · Oct 3, 2009

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the tenth amendment mentions that it can 'specifically deny powers to the states'... I'm just saying that 2A 'could' be interpreted that way based on that information

N00blet45 · Oct 3, 2009

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You mean that the 2nd amendment should seen as applying to the whole country (like the rest of the bill of rights) and that the tenth amendment makes it unconstitutional for a state to make laws contradicting the 2nd amendment?

That is plain English. The problem is that the gun grabbers don't want that interpretation or any interpretation where the common citizen has access to modern weaponry. So the constitution has been twisted and contorted to the point where contradictions have been allowed to take hold. For example the 2nd amendment has been understood to be a limit on the federal government's power, yet there are federal laws limiting the right to arms. In US v Miller the SCOTUS ruled that a short-barrel shotgun was not a militia weapon because it didn't have militia value yet the NFA of 1934 all but out-right bans civilian ownership of fully automatic weapons (perfect for militia use).

Undertaker · Oct 3, 2009

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I don't know about that Brown Note being a myth, as much as I love ZZ Top, their last concert I saw really stunk. Could it have been Dusty's bass playing.

Incorporation 101: The Second Amendment is no good here

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