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Thread: slightly OT...Register a shotgun as a pistol?

  1. #1
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    i've been searching, but i don't really understand how one goes about registering a shotgun as a pistol.

    the barrell length has to be at least 18 inches, and overall length less than 30 inches, (26 inches if not registered before jan 2010?)

    If i buy a mossberg 500 with standard stock and an 18.5" barrell, then install a pistol grip that now makes the gun 28" long, how do i go about registering it as a pistol?

    can i just take it to the local PD?
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    From when I was looking at shotguns that is what I was told. I also did a quick search back then but didnt come up with anything definative other than what you posted about under 30 but over 26 with 18 in barrel then pistol and over 30 w/18in barrel then shotgun, but then I wasnt going to be installing the pistol grip anyways so I didnt look too hard. But here is what I remember. As always this is not legal advise nor quotes of laws. Just what I was told by a few well meaning gun counter clerks. ( I know second worst group to take legal advise from right behind LE so I'll put on the flame retardant shorts now)

    If sold with a pistol grip installed with a CPL or Purchase permit used to register on 4473 and with local law enforcement then its a 12ga pistol. One even went so far as to say in this case you could not then install the standard length stock.

    If sold with standard rifle type stock installed and listed on 4473 as shotgun 12ga without CPL or PP being used then it was a regular shotgun and could not be converted or re-registered as a pistol after changing the stock over to the included pistol grip.

    Was kinda put to me as a purchase time decision without the ability of changing after the fact even if registered as a pistol to start with.

    Radioman

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    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    I don't think state law dictates whether or not you can convert between a pistol and shotgun/rifle, as long as the pistol is at least 26". FEDERAL LAW prohibits it, but federal law defines a pistol differently that state law does. Under FEDERAL LAW, the 26" pistol is considered a standard rifle/shotgun.
    Rand Paul 2016

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    OK the way I understand it is you can register it as a pistol if you modify it to the point where it is too short to be a rifle (per MI regulations NOT federal) as long as the barrel stays 18.5 inches or longer.

    You would put yourself as the seller and the purchaser on the forms.

    I am currently in the process of doing this with my Mossberg 500 which I purchased with both a stock and a pistol grip.

    The deal here is it is only a pistol to the state of MI as long as the barrel stays 18 inches long. To the federal govt it is still a shotgun. So registering it as a pistol allows you to carry it under the legal umbrella of your CPL...(IE loaded in the car or even concealed on or about your person)(also while Ocing it would seem that you might have more protection from brandishing hassles and other police issuies) If you do not have a CPL then this tends to not be an advantage.

    If you still want a pistol grip and want to be over 30 inches then the KNOX breachers grip will be a good choice as the gun will be slightly over 30 inches.




    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    I ran into a problem like this when I bought my mossberg 500 a while back. I bought one with a pistol grip but it was sold to me as a standard long gun. It was only after I had bought it that I found out it had to be registered as a pistol. I was able to basically resell the gun to myself and this time register it as a handgun. While gathering information on this issue I did get the impression that you CAN NOT legally change this between "handgun" length and "long gun" length. I certainly cant say that for sure but it was the impression I got.

    If it turns out you can legally change it from a long gun to a handgun, remember you don't bring guns in to be registered any more.

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    What you have to do is basically buy it like a real pistol if you get it from a Michigan FFL dealer.

    You have to do some odd things if it's a home conversion. You have to go get a permit to purchase from yourself, then I'm thinking you need to write down your name as both the purchaser and seller on the little forms.


    I haven't done this myself, but that's my understanding of it going by what I remember Dean saying at my CPL class.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Michigander wrote:
    What you have to do is basically buy it like a real pistol if you get it from a Michigan FFL dealer.

    You have to do some odd things if it's a home conversion. You have to go get a permit to purchase from yourself, then I'm thinking you need to write down your name as both the purchaser and seller on the little forms.


    I haven't done this myself, but that's my understanding of it going by what I remember Dean saying at my CPL class.
    This is correct! If you have a CPL just use the form from the state police and put yourself as both the seller and the purchaser.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    awesome, thaks for the info!



    I want to get this done before jan 1 before the new definition of pistol goes into effect. Part of me hates to register a gun, but i think that out weighs this once in a lifetime opportunity to aquire a shotgun Pistol one can legally carry locked and loaded inside a vehicle. I have applied for my cpl, but don't have it as of yet.



    any shot gun under 26 inches is illegal as i understand it. So after jan 1, unless you have a pre-registerd shot gun (pistol) between 26 and 30 inches you will no longer be able toregister a shot gun as a pistol, regardless of length.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Not quite any shotgun under 26" is illegal in this rather unfree state. It's true that you can't have a NFA registered typical short barreled shotgun (SBS), with a barrel under 18" and/or a over all length of less than 26". However, there is one exception. A shotgun which never had a butt stock, andwas manufacturedto have a barrel under 18"is regulated under the NFA as an "any other weapon", or AOW.



    Michigan law does not allow registered SBS's, but it does allow AOW's. AOW's are transfered like any other NFA item, except the transfer fee is only 5 dollars. The manufacturing fee is still 200.



    The most common AOW shotty that I know of is the Serbu Super Shorty. In Michigan it's legal to carry as a pistol, provided it's registered as a pistol, and NFA registered also.

    http://practical-defense.com/product...i/file_1_1.JPG

    Another, more fun possibility would be a Saiga 12 built to be an AOW. Probably more expensive, but a 20 round drum would beat a 3 shotcapacity.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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