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Thread: Badger Guns

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    I'm not sure if this is in line with our general purpose as a Pro 2A organization but this is where I am on the situation.

    Concerning Badger Guns latest stint with displaying the sign about the racism of the MPD. I'm not arguing the fact that they were possibly profiling his customers, but I believe they had good reason to. The statistics on crime related gun sales from his store are ridiculous. I believe he should have been shut down many a years ago. He is a large black eye to ourgoal of giving the public an image of RESPONSIBLE gun owners, more specificallyopen carriers.Their defense has been, "we are doing everything inour power to curb these illegal and straw purchases", well thats not quite good enough because obviously its still happening, at an alarming rate. With todays latest cop shooting, we need to thin the herd of irresponsible parties that have ANYTHING to do with how we look as a whole to all the anti's...As they say, one bad apple spoils the whole bunch.

    We have many other more responsible gun shops and dealers around, if and when we(responsible owners) want to purchase, sell, or trade a firearm we probably won't complain about driving somewhere else. Obviously these other shops are doing something a little different when it comes to screening beyond the background check.

    My situation comes down to a few questions for all of you:

    1) What kind of restrictions does a shop owner have when it comes to turning down a sale even if the person successfully passes a background check(to put the kabosh on a possible straw purchase) without somebody raising hell about racism or the like?

    2) If you shop at Badger, would you have a serious problem with spending your money elsewhere with somebody who conducts business in a more responsible manner?

    3)Am I totally off course on this subject(in your opinion)?

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    Although I think this subject is blown out of proportion by the fact that Badger is the only FFL that close to Milwaukee; where the bleeding hearts keep letting violent felons off easy and allowing them back into society to get their hands on guns, I'll take a crack at the questions.

    jjcharris wrote:
    My situation comes down to a few questions for all of you:

    1) What kind of restrictions does a shop owner have when it comes to turning down a sale even if the person successfully passes a background check(to put the kabosh on a possible straw purchase) without somebody raising hell about racism or the like?

    2) If you shop at Badger, would you have a serious problem with spending your money elsewhere with somebody who conducts business in a more responsible manner?

    3)Am I totally off course on this subject(in your opinion)?
    1.) They may not discriminate based on any protected class. They could; however, come up with a questionaire, or standard set of questions to ask of all patrons. The correct answers could be secret (at least until a discrimination suit). If they refused sale based on that equally, I don't think they could get nailed for discrimination. But IANAL. Of course, that would probably work about as well as "Are you the actual purchaser of the firearm?" on the 4473.

    2.) How responsible should they be? They are following the law, the criminals aren't; as always. I worked for an FFL for a few years and refused sale on a few occasions based on improper paperwork or wrong answers. If a professional "straw buyer" came in to buy something how would I even know it? Sure there are some obvious ones out there but all you can do is ask them. If they answer no, what can you do?

    3.) I think you are just a little off course, just like Badger was a little off course with the "racist" comment on their sign. Let's face it, if you are the nearest FFL to a high crime sesspool like Milwaukee, you are going to get way more than your share of criminals trying to buy guns. Of course you are going to have a higher rate of crimes being committed with your sales.
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    I appreciate the input on this subject, thats what I was looking for.

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    JJ, I wrote this in another threat, but will post it here as well, maybe it will help you see things the way they are, and not the hype that Reichsfuhrer Barrett and the gun hating media put out:

    While no one disputes the numbers, they are misleading for one reason. Badger is the closest gun store to the city of Milwaukee, Milwaukee itself having NO GUN STORES. In fact, Badger is right across the street from Milwaukee. So if you live in Milwaukee and want to buy a gun Badger is the first place most people go. Also, Badger is very close (5 minute drive) from the shall we say "high crime area" of the city.

    The fact that a city as large as Milwaukee has no gun shops in it skews the numbers. So take a similar city, say Cleveland, lets say Cleveland has 10 gun stores, no one store is going to jump off the page as far as guns used in crimes because sales will be spread out among those 10 stores. But now close 9 of them and the 1 remaining will look bad. That is the case here, Badger is just about the only game town.

    So if you go to Cleveland, or Boston, or Denver, or Houston you have a wide variety of stores to buy guns from, and the number of guns used in crimes is spread out amongst all those stores. But when a city with 600,000 people has only 1 gun shop, its no wonder 30%, 40% even 50% of guns used in crimes come from it!

    As far as deterring straw purchases I will say this, trying to watch what I say here. EVERYONE from the ghetto goes there for guns, its a 5 minute drive. People from the ghetto are not stupid, in fact they are genius....when it comes to gaming the system. Seriously, its a whole different form of life, a life where if you can make money, or get away with doing something you are not supposed to do, they figure out a way to do it. (Look to the latest child care fraud where they stole millions of dollars from the state.)
    And making a straw purchase is not hard. If I am a felon I go in, find a gun I like and walk out. Go home and give the money to my homey or my baby mama, tell them "Go buy the XDM, it's $650.00....blah blah blah....." And I throw $50 or $100 at them for their time. Done, end of story, no way for the guys at badger to know, but when I shoot someone it's their fault and they are on the news and guys in a pro gun forum are saying they should be shut down for giving us a black eye.

    Make sense?


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    I understand that they are the only store in the relative area, which happens to be close to the ****** area of town. I also understand your comparison of cities with larger amounts of stores. But since nobody is seeing it the way you put it, especially the people that make the real decisions, I guess there is something we have to do about it, albeit maybe not be the best option. So they get closed, no more gun shop 5 minutes from the ghetto. There are MANY other places us decent people will go to buy a gun, since most of us aren't coming from the ghetto anyways, not a big deal right? But in the mean time, we keep hearing the same old story on the news, which does in fact give the responsible gun owning public a terrible reputation which completely counteracts what we are trying to accomplish here. It just gives the anti's more ammunition to get what they want because what most people are seeing is a huge problem. Can you honestly tell me and everyone else on here that the situation at Badger ISN'T a problem? That things can continue on the way they are and NOT have negative reprocussions against gun owners in good standing in Milw AND the state?

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    The bad man will also learn of the "out of the city" place to get guns, if Badger is gone. Closing the store is not an answer at all. Heck, my Lil' Beretta came from Germantown, and I am not that smart. Good people do live in bad places...

    As a state, I could understand a few new changes for gun sellers. It should help clear up this "Badger is a bad place" up... It should be fully understood by any and all,Badger will do what the law asks, if it is a law.

    The real odd part of this story, is that last year, the MPD and mayor were talking about the gun show laws... One year it is this place, the next year it is that,,, Lets just try to ban them all...

    I came from New York City. No people EVER got guns IN New York. We justwent for a short drive to a friends home outside of our city. Every gun owner in my city was a criminal. That is a very bad place to force your own people into. As far as I can see, it could be the very thing people likeGlock34are warning us of. Again, as far as I can see it, if you want to take all the guns out of a city, I would also like to also see a fence built around it, so I can be safe from it, on the outside, with the rest of the peoplethat haverights... I can not take credit for that idea though, as I did get it from Michael McGee...

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    jjcharris wrote:
    I'm not sure if this is in line with our general purpose as a Pro 2A organization but this is where I am on the situation.

    Concerning Badger Guns latest stint with displaying the sign about the racism of the MPD. I'm not arguing the fact that they were possibly profiling his customers, but I believe they had good reason to. The statistics on crime related gun sales from his store are ridiculous. I believe he should have been shut down many a years ago. He is a large black eye to ourgoal of giving the public an image of RESPONSIBLE gun owners, more specificallyopen carriers.Their defense has been, "we are doing everything inour power to curb these illegal and straw purchases", well that's not quite good enough because obviously its still happening, at an alarming rate.
    We have many other more responsible gun shops and dealers around, if and when we(responsible owners) want to purchase, sell, or trade a firearm we probably won't complain about driving somewhere else. Obviously these other shops are doing something a little different when it comes to screening beyond the background check.

    My situation comes down to a few questions for all of you:

    1) What kind of restrictions does a shop owner have when it comes to turning down a sale even if the person successfully passes a background check(to put the kabosh on a possible straw purchase) without somebody raising hell about racism or the like?

    2) If you shop at Badger, would you have a serious problem with spending your money elsewhere with somebody who conducts business in a more responsible manner?

    3)Am I totally off course on this subject(in your opinion)?
    Ok, So what should Badger do, Not sell a single firearm to anyone that is not white? Let me give you a clue as to what would probably happen next, The ACLU, Sharpton, Jackson, and several other activist organizations would be protesting that Badger guns is being a racist business by not allowing black or Hispanic persons to purchase firearms.

    If Badger were to move farther outfrom Milwaukee, the next closest gun store to the city would be blamed as the highest sales of guns eventually used in crimes.

    Besides obvious signs that a straw purchase is taking place like 2 people in the store, the guy looking at guns and telling the girl exactly what to purchase or communicating over a phone at the sales counter.
    How would you go about lowering the level of straw purchases if you ran a gun store???
    If the NICS check comes up clean, what other options does a store have to deny the sale to a person that is fully legal to purchase?


    Lets look at underage drinking as a parallel sincethere is plenty of straw purchases happening there, if the buyer is of legal age to purchase, what can a seller do to prevent the purchaser from selling the alcohol to a minor after he/she leaves the store?

    I bet if a Milwaukee police officer looked over each and every sale, there would still be an inordinate amount of guns getting resold to the wrong people.

    Here is a little tidbit of what the Carrol Stream Illinois police department did to try and stop an imagined problem. They installed spy cameras outside of a home-brew and hydroponic supply store in their town to get license plate numbers of their patrons.
    Then they even got a judge to sign search warrantsfor peoples homes one the sole basis of probable cause that these peoplevisited at this particular store and that was enough evidence to break down doors to search for marijuana plants growingin these peoples homes.
    What did they find? people making their own wines, andbrewing their own beer which is fully legal. And they got one or two people on minorpossession charges. There was a lawsuit, the Carrol stream PD and the judge that signed the warrants got a slap on the wrist.
    Is that what you want happening in Milwaukee? Would you allow the police to bust into your home with full-auto weapons aimed at you! with a very high possibility you or a loved one will be killed in the process of the search because you visited a gun store?

    Requiring an ID scan to enter a gun store isan underhanded way of gunregistration,
    The police have no business knowing if I visited a gun store, what type or how many firearms I may or may not own, or what type of ammunition or hand-loading supplies I purchased! If I purchase supplies for .50BMG, does that give them probable cause to bust down my door to search for an automatic weapon?



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    The city of Milwaukee needs todo a better job policing their own community, not gun stores. There are PLENTY of laws already on the books. Flynn needs to get his boys to do their job. Why don't they stake out other areas of town? Mitchell Street, Lisbon Ave, Hampton, Villard, etc, etc.SOME are lazy and want to take the easy way out of police work.

    The warrant search that resulted in the officer getting shot in the arm - while unfortunate - is 'part of the job' - andeveryone knows this going in. Everyone who is an officer APPLIES for the job, no one is DRAFTEDinto the position. It is an accepted risk.

    Badger is not in Milwaukee, so if Badger closes, Milwaukee picks on the next closest store to close them as well, then picks on more outside communties that 'traffic guns into Milwaukee'.This is the start of a bad pattern. Milwaukee will just follow the felons & straws around as they go to Shooters, Fletchers, Gander Mountain and others.

    You take away thealcohol from a drunk, you have not cured the drunk, they'll just find more alcohol somewhere else, same reasoning applies here.

    My guns were purchased at Badger - odd that none of them havebeen used in a crime, or have been used to shoot officers,my guns must be defective.

    Badger is a business, businesses make money. If Milwaukee did a better job of catching it's felons, and Chisholm's staff were to prosectute them to the fullest extent of the law - and make them serve 100% of the time, Milwaukee would be a better communtiy in the first place. Barrett, Flynn & Chisholm need to fix their own community first before picking on others. If they want something like Chicago, let them move to Chicago, no one FORCES them to live here.



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    There will always be a worst business as long as there are businesses of any sort. Just as there will always be dumbest m-f around as long as dumb m-fs are tolerated here.

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    Here's a link to channel 12's coverage of Badger. They have several videos on there of their newscasts.

    http://www.wisn.com/news/21163697/detail.html
    The 1911 pistol remains the service pistol of choice in the eyes of those who understand the problem. Back when we audited the FBI academy in 1947, I was told that I ought not to use my pistol in their training program because it was not fair. Maybe the first thing one should demand of his sidearm is that it be unfair. Col. Jeff Cooper, GUNS & AMMO, January 2002

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    "The mayor said he's going to start with local legislators, and then go to state and federal lawmakers seeking tougher penalties for felons in possession of a gun and the business of person who sells it to them."

    I find that article a little frustrating. You notice they never show statistics of how many of the firearms were sold to known felons? Or why those people who are that dangerous are even allowed in public to begin with?

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    IMHO, this is nothing more then a revenge plot by Barrett and Furor Flynn to get back at badger simply because the two officers that were shot had been shot by a gun bought at Badger and nothing more.

    They are trying to interfere with the owners right to prosperity and free enterprise.

    When they should be out there policing their city for real criminals.

    If Badger was at fault or had actually failed to follow the laws, ATF would have shut them down already.

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    I absolutely agree, and a similar comment was posted here:
    http://www.wisn.com/news/21154647/detail.html

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    The solution to this problem is not good store, bad store, white, black, red, brown or yellow. The solution is mandatory enforcement of the laws already on the book. In Wisconsin felons and domestic abusers are not allowed to own firearms. Underage persons are not allowed to purchase firearms. Most crimminal acts have firearm enhancement penalties. Unfortunately all of that is used as "candy" by prosecutors. Some years ago, I'll have to search my achives for the actual article, I found crime statistics that said 80% of firearm charges were plea bargained by procecutors in order to obtain a confession. I don't know what the current number is but I doubt it has changed much. Despite the nauseating claim by prosecutors that they love their job because it makes them feel like they are combating crime in order to make our world safer the bottom line is their interest is to have more wins than losses. Do anything to obtain a cofession and save the Statelegal costs. Crimminals are stupid but they aren't dumb. They will also use a firearm charge as a bargaining "chip". Make all gun crimes and firearm enhancers a mandatory charge and you will see firearm involved crime go down. To me it is absolutely atrocious that a law abiding citizen that strays into a school zone can be charged with a felony while criminals have firearm charges plea bargained out of their charges.

    In regards to straw purchases: To me this it overblown. In the 25 years I had a FFL I never had any "straw" purchase. Only the dumbest criminal is likely to even attempt it or agree to participate in it. For one thing the evidence is too indelible. The ATF 4473 form, the FBI background check, the recorded seial numberare all irrefutable evidence. Forget about "honor among thieves". When the ""straw purchaser" stooge finds that he/she can spend big time federal jail time for false purchase he/she will squeal like a scalded rat. Also in Wisconsin the purchase of a handgun is not an instant buy. There is a 48 hour waiting period before the dealer can release thehandgun to the buyer. Most "hard" crimminals are unlikely to want to risk being discovered during that waiting time. Instead they will opt to buy their handgun in a back alley or from the trunk of a car. A handgun that is likely to be stolen and has the serial number defaced in order to make tracing difficult.

    Straw purchases in themselves are nottotally illegal. Family members are able to buy a firearm for another family member. If that were not so a wife couldn't buy a firearm as a gift to her husband. A father could not buy a firearm for his underage son/daughter and then give it to them when they reach legal age.

    Afirearms dealer that knowingly sells a firearm as a "straw" purchase is a totally different situation. I doubt that is the case with Badger. With the law-enforcement and media visibility they are under I doubt very much that they would risk selling a firearm that they know is a "straw" purchase. I think that Barret and Flynn just want the store shut down and are willing to come up with any excuse to do so. Their actions are only part of their personal vendetta and their anti-gun philosophy.

    Of course all of this is just my personal opinion.

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    Mandatory minimum sentences ala Federal Statues would be a good start: 18 USC Sect. 924.

    18 USC 924(c)(1) Whoever, during and in relation to any crime of violence or drug trafficking crime (including a crime of violence or drug trafficking crime which provides for an enhanced punishment if committed by the use of a deadly or dangerous weapon or device) for which he may be prosecuted in a court of the United States, uses or carries a firearm, shall, in addition to the punishment provided for such crime of violence or drug trafficking crime, be sentenced to imprisonment for five years, and if the firearm is a short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or semiautomatic assault weapon, to imprisonment for ten years, and if the firearm is a machinegun, or a destructive device, or is equipped with a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, to imprisonment for thirty years. In the case of his second or subsequent conviction under this subsection, such person shall be sentenced to imprisonment for twenty years, and if the firearm is a machinegun, or a destructive device, or is equipped with a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, to life imprisonment without release. (FOOTNOTE 1) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the court shall not place on probation or suspend the sentence of any person convicted of a violation of this subsection, nor shall the term of imprisonment imposed under this subsection run concurrently with any other term of imprisonment including that imposed for the crime of violence or drug trafficking crime in which the firearm was used or carried.


    Emphasis mine.
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 - "A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but the fool's heart to the left."

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    What happened to the love??? Emphasis added.


    Barrett Heads to DC to Continue Fight Against Illegal Guns


    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: January 23, 2007

    Contact:
    Eileen Force, Communications Director

    Office of Mayor Tom Barrett

    414-286-8504 (phone)
    414-286-3191 (fax)
    eforce@milwaukee.gov





    BARRETT JOINS U.S. MAYORS IN WASHINGTON
    TO CONTINUE FIGHT AGAINST ILLEGAL GUNS
    Milwaukee – Mayor Tom Barrett left today for Washington, DC to attend a National Summit convened by the Mayors Against Illegal Guns, a group he has been involved with since its inception last year. Barrett became active with the group after conversations with other U.S. Mayors about the barriers at the state and federal level to stemming the tide of illegal guns into cities across the country.

    "As Mayors, we are on the front lines," said Barrett. "We have to look in the eyes of the mothers who lose their young sons in a heated argument with some thug who thinks nothing of carrying and using a handgun to solve a problem. We have to answer to the neighbors who are nervous to sit on their front porches because of the threat of a drive-by shooting. We can do many things, but until we stop the flow of illegal guns in our cities, we will not be able to successfully address the violence."

    Barrett will make a presentation to the attendees on his work with local gun dealers to change their sales practices in the absence of state and federal laws to prevent straw purchases and to close loopholes that allow handguns to minors under the age of 21. One gun dealer in the Milwaukee area, Badger Outdoors, is now undertaking additional background checks on certain transactions not covered by state law and has implemented a high-tech security system which captures information then shared with local and federal law enforcement.

    The meeting today comes on the heels of two recent shootings in Milwaukee that involved suspects under the age of 21 with high-powered handguns.

    Barrett continued, "The U.S. Attorney General and the FBI have said that they would take a look at the crime in Milwaukee. I urge them to come and get the illegal guns off our streets!"

    For more information on the Summit and to link on a live web stream of today's presentations, visit http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org

    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lFundingR1.png

    "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Badger gun response from the Milwaukee canidate for lieutentent governor (pdf):

    http://www.dailycardinal.com/news/se...t-gov-1.525356



    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lFundingR1.png

    "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Flipper wrote:
    Badger gun response from the Milwaukee canidate for lieutentent governor (pdf):

    http://www.dailycardinal.com/news/se...t-gov-1.525356


    & "common sense" reply fromanother legislator :celebrate
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lFundingR1.png

    "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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    NUTCZAK WROTE: Ok, So what should Badger do, Not sell a single firearm to anyone that is not white? Let me give you a clue as to what would probably happen next, The ACLU, Sharpton, Jackson, and several other activist organizations would be protesting that Badger guns is being a racist business by not allowing black or Hispanic persons to purchase firearms.



    Well, you are basically reasking one of the questions that I postedthisthread in the first place with. I asked these questions because I wasn't sure of the answer and I figured I could get some good explanations, not the question asked to me again like I'm being an ignorant dumbass.

    A few of the posts on this topic have seemed a little hostile and indicated some of you think I'm one of the bad guys trying to take our rights away, which couldn't be FARTHER from the truth. I just believe that no matter how much you may not like this situation with Badger Guns, something HAS to change. The general(non OCDO)public aren't looking at it this way and really, the whole reason we are in this forum is to sway the average person more toward our side of the camp. All they see is too many guns being sold(possibly irresponsibly) to the wrong people. I'm not sure why nobody else thinks something has to change, what good will come of leaving this situation as it stands, with all the negative press surrounding it?? I'm not suggesting anything really, I asked what would be the harm in them closing, which doesn't mean I neccesarily support that idea, I just threw it out there to get feedback, which I did and I appreciate it. But am I really the only person that thinks there has to be some sort of resolution to this situation, hopefully something that isn't too harmful to the cause, but something that does some good?

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    Milwaukee needs tocorrect itself, and quit pointing fingers. Milwaukee has a 'people problem' not a gun problem. There is nothing 'broke' at Badger, or any other gun store, so there is nothing to fix.



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    JC, I didn't even read your post before adding my comments, so lighten up a little.
    We were obviously thinking along the same lines? (I'll know more when I go back and read your post for the first time)

    Lets say Milwaukee police found out 80% of all the cars involved in wrecks came from the same dealer. Would Flynn and Barrett be jumping up and down swearing to get the car dealership shut down??

    If I sell a car or a firearm to someone, it is not my responsibilty, nor do I have the legalability or meansto check to see if they are eligible to purchase either item.

    I bet there is not a single gun dealer in business today that has knowingly sold a firearm to someonemaking a straw purchase!

    How about if people without a drivers license got parts at a certain parts store, is it the auto parts store responsibility to do a driving record background check for them to sell a quart of oil? If felons are not supposed to have firearms, than why are these felons showing up at the range to shoot? It seems to me their parole officers and the MPD are slacking on their jobs, not the gun dealer.

    if Badger was making illegal transactions, the BATFE would have shut them down years ago. I am sure they have already crawled up badgers arse with a microscope looking for any illegal practices.

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    jjcharris wrote:
    I believe he should have been shut down many a years ago. He is a large black eye to ourgoal of giving the public an image of RESPONSIBLE gun owners, more specificallyopen carriers.Their defense has been, "we are doing everything inour power to curb these illegal and straw purchases", well thats not quite good enough because obviously its still happening, at an alarming rate...

    Obviously these other shops are doing something a little different when it comes to screening beyond the background check...

    My situation comes down to a few questions for all of you:

    1) What kind of restrictions does a shop owner have when it comes to turning down a sale even if the person successfully passes a background check(to put the kabosh on a possible straw purchase) without somebody raising hell about racism or the like?

    2) If you shop at Badger, would you have a serious problem with spending your money elsewhere with somebody who conducts business in a more responsible manner?

    3)Am I totally off course on this subject(in your opinion)?
    First off. When I lived in Wisconsin, I bought several guns from Badger. They follow the law. Unless you are suggesting that they employ lie detectors or psychics to determine if a potential customer is a straw purchaser there is nothing more they can do stop stop this.

    The fact is, with no more brick and mortar gun dealers in Milwaukee, and the proximity of Badger Guns to Highway 41 just south of the central city, the clientele is perpetuating this problem. As other posters have suggested, if Badger closed tomorrow, the same thing would happen to The Shooter's Shop in West Allis.

    So I'd have to vote for 3, you're off course on this subject.

    The object of much of the media, and in the Milwaukee area unfortunately many of the politicians, is to shut down all gun stores. You could shut down all the brick and mortar gun shops in Wisconsin and bad folks will get their guns from somewhere else. Mexico is a prime example of this.

    The Badger situation is another instance of politicians and media blaming (pick one): guns, availability of guns, gun dealers, or gun manufacturers being the problem. Notice they don't blame the criminals acquiring guns illegally, or the people who use guns improperly or unlawfully . . . it's so obviously the guns and/or dealers, and/or manufacturers that are the real problem.



    Don't buy into that argument. Try visiting Badger sometime. It's a clean store, with decent folks also buying guns there and using the range. It's certainly not gang banger central . . .

    jjcharris wrote:
    I just believe that no matter how much you may not like this situation with Badger Guns, something HAS to change...

    I'm not sure why nobody else thinks something has to change, what good will come of leaving this situation as it stands, with all the negative press surrounding it??

    I'm not suggesting anything really, I asked what would be the harm in them closing, which doesn't mean I neccesarily support that idea, I just threw it out there to get feedback, which I did and I appreciate it.

    But am I really the only person that thinks there has to be some sort of resolution to this situation, hopefully something that isn't too harmful to the cause, but something that does some good?
    What can be changed? They are operating within the law, and doing exactly the same thing that every other gun store is doing. You aren't offering any suggestions, and frankly there is nothing legally that can be done to stop straw purchases from happening if the purchasers are smart enough to pull it off.

    As far as your statement of what would be the harm in them closing are you seriously suggesting that a man should be put out of business because his clientele are breaking the law?

    If you follow that logic there shouldn't be a car dealership open in the whole country. Or a bar, or a pharmacy either . . .

    So I wouldn't say you are the only person who thinks there has to be a resolution. But your thinking on what could be done is seriously flawed.

    Here's a good one . . . how about if we lock away the CRIMINALS rather than penalizing the owner of a legitimate business who is operating within the law?



  23. #23
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    While there are gun shops there will always be one that can be demonized "worst" by the gun grabbers.

    Without an objective standard of bad gun shop, worst is just another 'heap fallacy'. If all sales are 'illegal' is that a bad gun shop? How about half of all sales, one quarter, 2^-4, 2^-8, -16, -32, -64, ... one?

  24. #24
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    So “they” say 1/3 of guns used in Milwaukee crimes come from Badger.



    What I would like to know is how long ago were the guns purchased? How many times have they changed hands? How many were stolen first?



    I see a conclusion and a course of actiondrawn from incomplete facts and half truths.



    The A.T.F. says the average time between a gun being bought and then being used in a crime is 10 years. Alsoabout 60% of guns used by felons are stolen or otherwise obtained illegal and only @9% being obtained via straw purchase. So is it right to blame Badger if a gun was bought at there store legally changed hands a few times or stolen and then was used in a crime years later?



    The Milwaukee Police sold off many of there Glock 22’s (and not all through F.F.L.’s) how many of them have been or will be used in crimes?



    The fact is the police chief and the mayor of Milwaukeewant all gun store's, andgunshowsshut down period. If they succeed in closingBadger next on the listis The Shooters Shop and on we go and where it stops I think we all know.





    The point of my ramblingis; thistells us more about our community, the people who are in it and what they are willing to do, but nothing aboutthe stores that sell the guns.

  25. #25
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