Badger Guns

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JC, I didn't even read your post before adding my comments, so lighten up a little.
We were obviously thinking along the same lines? (I'll know more when I go back and read your post for the first time)

Lets say Milwaukee police found out 80% of all the cars involved in wrecks came from the same dealer. Would Flynn and Barrett be jumping up and down swearing to get the car dealership shut down??

If I sell a car or a firearm to someone, it is not my responsibilty, nor do I have the legalability or meansto check to see if they are eligible to purchase either item.

I bet there is not a single gun dealer in business today that has knowingly sold a firearm to someonemaking a straw purchase!

How about if people without a drivers license got parts at a certain parts store, is it the auto parts store responsibility to do a driving record background check for them to sell a quart of oil? If felons are not supposed to have firearms, than why are these felons showing up at the range to shoot? It seems to me their parole officers and the MPD are slacking on their jobs, not the gun dealer.

if Badger was making illegal transactions, the BATFE would have shut them down years ago. I am sure they have already crawled up badgers arse with a microscope looking for any illegal practices.

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jjcharris wrote:

I believe he should have been shut down many a years ago. He is a large black eye to ourgoal of giving the public an image of RESPONSIBLE gun owners, more specificallyopen carriers.Their defense has been, "we are doing everything inour power to curb these illegal and straw purchases", well thats not quite good enough because obviously its still happening, at an alarming rate...

Obviously these other shops are doing something a little different when it comes to screening beyond the background check...

My situation comes down to a few questions for all of you:

1) What kind of restrictions does a shop owner have when it comes to turning down a sale even if the person successfully passes a background check(to put the kabosh on a possible straw purchase) without somebody raising hell about racism or the like?

2) If you shop at Badger, would you have a serious problem with spending your money elsewhere with somebody who conducts business in a more responsible manner?

3)Am I totally off course on this subject(in your opinion)?

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First off. When I lived in Wisconsin, I bought several guns from Badger. They follow the law. Unless you are suggesting that they employ lie detectors or psychics to determine if a potential customer is a straw purchaser there is nothing more they can do stop stop this.

The fact is, with no more brick and mortar gun dealers in Milwaukee, and the proximity of Badger Guns to Highway 41 just south of the central city, the clientele is perpetuating this problem. As other posters have suggested, if Badger closed tomorrow, the same thing would happen to The Shooter's Shop in West Allis.

So I'd have to vote for 3, you're off course on this subject.

The object of much of the media, and in the Milwaukee area unfortunately many of the politicians, is to shut down all gun stores. You could shut down all the brick and mortar gun shops in Wisconsin and bad folks will get their guns from somewhere else. Mexico is a prime example of this.

The Badger situation is another instance of politicians and media blaming (pick one): guns, availability of guns, gun dealers, or gun manufacturers being the problem. Notice they don't blame the criminals acquiring guns illegally, or the people who use guns improperly or unlawfully . . . it's so obviously the guns and/or dealers, and/or manufacturers that are the real problem.

:banghead:

Don't buy into that argument. Try visiting Badger sometime. It's a clean store, with decent folks also buying guns there and using the range. It's certainly not gang banger central . . .

jjcharris wrote:

I just believe that no matter how much you may not like this situation with Badger Guns, something HAS to change...

I'm not sure why nobody else thinks something has to change, what good will come of leaving this situation as it stands, with all the negative press surrounding it??

I'm not suggesting anything really, I asked what would be the harm in them closing, which doesn't mean I neccesarily support that idea, I just threw it out there to get feedback, which I did and I appreciate it.

But am I really the only person that thinks there has to be some sort of resolution to this situation, hopefully something that isn't too harmful to the cause, but something that does some good?

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What can be changed? They are operating within the law, and doing exactly the same thing that every other gun store is doing. You aren't offering any suggestions, and frankly there is nothing legally that can be done to stop straw purchases from happening if the purchasers are smart enough to pull it off.

As far as your statement of what would be the harm in them closing are you seriously suggesting that a man should be put out of business because his clientele are breaking the law?

If you follow that logic there shouldn't be a car dealership open in the whole country. Or a bar, or a pharmacy either . . .

So I wouldn't say you are the only person who thinks there has to be a resolution. But your thinking on what could be done is seriously flawed.

Here's a good one . . . how about if we lock away the CRIMINALS rather than penalizing the owner of a legitimate business who is operating within the law?

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While there are gun shops there will always be one that can be demonized "worst" by the gun grabbers.

Without an objective standard of bad gun shop, worst is just another 'heap fallacy'. If all sales are 'illegal' is that a bad gun shop? How about half of all sales, one quarter, 2^-4, 2^-8, -16, -32, -64, ... one?

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So “they” say 1/3 of guns used in Milwaukee crimes come from Badger.



What I would like to know is how long ago were the guns purchased? How many times have they changed hands? How many were stolen first?



I see a conclusion and a course of actiondrawn from incomplete facts and half truths.



The A.T.F. says the average time between a gun being bought and then being used in a crime is 10 years. Alsoabout 60% of guns used by felons are stolen or otherwise obtained illegal and only @9% being obtained via straw purchase. So is it right to blame Badger if a gun was bought at there store legally changed hands a few times or stolen and then was used in a crime years later?



The Milwaukee Police sold off many of there Glock 22’s (and not all through F.F.L.’s) how many of them have been or will be used in crimes?



The fact is the police chief and the mayor of Milwaukeewant all gun store's, andgunshowsshut down period. If they succeed in closingBadger next on the listis The Shooters Shop and on we go and where it stops I think we all know.





The point of my ramblingis; thistells us more about our community, the people who are in it and what they are willing to do, but nothing aboutthe stores that sell the guns.

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McX,

I won a High Point .40 from D.U. this year and I can honestly say that I would use as a boat anchor, hammer, or, most likely,as an badexamplebefore I ever shot it again. (I have been told they made a fine .22 target pistol back in 196?)Any modern gun that requires a roll pin punch to field strip it is useless, at least to me. Furthermore I tried to trade it in at Badger, @two weeks ago,and I was practically laughed at. I wasn't even asked how much I wanted for it.

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BARRETT JOINS U.S. MAYORS IN WASHINGTON
TO CONTINUE FIGHT AGAINST ILLEGAL GUNS

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Milwaukee – Mayor Tom Barrett left today for Washington, DC to attend a National Summit convened by the Mayors Against Illegal Guns, a group he has been involved with since its inception last year. Barrett became active with the group after conversations with other U.S. Mayors about the barriers at the state and federal level to stemming the tide of illegal guns into cities across the country.

"As Mayors, we are on the front lines," said Barrett. "We have to look in the eyes of the mothers who lose their young sons in a heated argument with some thug who thinks nothing of carrying and using a handgun to solve a problem. We have to answer to the neighbors who are nervous to sit on their front porches because of the threat of a drive-by shooting. We can do many things, but until we stop the flow of illegal guns in our cities, we will not be able to successfully address the violence."

Barrett will make a presentation to the attendees on his work with local gun dealers to change their sales practices in the absence of state and federal laws to prevent straw purchases and to close loopholes that allow handguns to minors under the age of 21. One gun dealer in the Milwaukee area, Badger Outdoors, is now undertaking additional background checks on certain transactions not covered by state law and has implemented a high-tech security system which captures information then shared with local and federal law enforcement.

The meeting today comes on the heels of two recent shootings in Milwaukee that involved suspects under the age of 21 with high-powered handguns.

Barrett continued, "The U.S. Attorney General and the FBI have said that they would take a look at the crime in Milwaukee. I urge them to come and get the illegal guns off our streets!"

For more information on the Summit and to link on a live web stream of today's presentations, visit http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org

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So now the Mayor just makes up his own laws and thinks he can violate anyone's rights.

Isn't this the BATF's job?

Seems to me, if Barrett is going to do the BATF's job the we don't need the BATF, right? Gee think of all the tax dollars that would be saved. :banghead:

Still an infringement on the owners right to prosperity and free enterprise.

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FLR72 wrote:

So “they” say 1/3 of guns used in Milwaukee crimes come from Badger.

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I would like to see proof of this claim.

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FLR72 wrote:

I have been told they made a fine .22 target pistol back in 196?)

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That would be Hi-Standard not Hi-Point. Hi-Point doesn't make a "fine" anything.

Hi-Standard made some excellent 22 semi-auto target pistols.


The company is back in businessand hasexpanded their line.:

http://www.highstandard.com/

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FLR72 wrote:

I won a High Point .40 from D.U. this year and I can honestly say that I would use as a boat anchor, hammer, or, most likely,as an badexamplebefore I ever shot it again. (I have been told they made a fine .22 target pistol back in 196?)Any modern gun that requires a roll pin punch to field strip it is useless, at least to me. Furthermore I tried to trade it in at Badger, @two weeks ago,and I was practically laughed at. I wasn't even asked how much I wanted for it.

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They do not last long in display cases around here.... Used are bringing almost the same price as new when new is out of stock. Gun shops should be giving you $100 for it as they are easy sales.

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I am kinda glad Badger did not want it as I nowplan on using it as a bad example.

I have shot mine six times so I have not had any problems butI do have a acquaintance who cannot fire his twice without a jam, stovepipe or other andwatching him try to clean it is comical to say the least.

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Nutczak wrote:

JC, I didn't even read your post before adding my comments, so lighten up a little.
We were obviously thinking along the same lines? (I'll know more when I go back and read your post for the first time)

Lets say Milwaukee police found out 80% of all the cars involved in wrecks came from the same dealer. Would Flynn and Barrett be jumping up and down swearing to get the car dealership shut down??

If I sell a car or a firearm to someone, it is not my responsibilty, nor do I have the legalability or meansto check to see if they are eligible to purchase either item.

I bet there is not a single gun dealer in business today that has knowingly sold a firearm to someonemaking a straw purchase!

How about if people without a drivers license got parts at a certain parts store, is it the auto parts store responsibility to do a driving record background check for them to sell a quart of oil? If felons are not supposed to have firearms, than why are these felons showing up at the range to shoot? It seems to me their parole officers and the MPD are slacking on their jobs, not the gun dealer.

if Badger was making illegal transactions, the BATFE would have shut them down years ago. I am sure they have already crawled up badgers arse with a microscope looking for any illegal practices.

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First off I'd like to apologize since you didn't read my post before you posted your reply. Weird, but OK.

You used some interesting analogies in your writing, but first off, the auto parts store one, well since it isn't illegal for an unlicensed driver to own a vehicle, that is apples to oranges.

As we all know now, yet another firearm used in a crime has come back to be from Badger, probably not good since the general public hasn't forgot about the last 2 cops being shot yet. I read the article where they interviewed the owner of Shooter's in W. Allis, and yes I know he would probably love Badger to close since he is obviously his largest competition in the near area, but it seems like he at least has a good idea of where Badger is going wrong. Three miles between the two stores isn't a whole lot. I won't say a whole lot more than that since I don't know the raw numbers of guns sold per store in comparison. But Badger has some serious problems.

As people have been saying, "Milwaukee has a people problem", well thats kind of passing the buck I'd have to say. I think the problem has been created mutually, obviously the proven criminals are at fault for TRYING to buy when they know they shouldn't but Badger is at least "slipping" in some area of the purchase. They have to be to have these numbers continually rising, no matter "what they try" it keeps happening. Nobody on here wants to blame the "good guy" just because he is a gun shop owner and everyone believes if he is criticized and possibly shut down its just terrible for the Pro Gun Movement, sometimes the best solution doesn't always seem that way going into it. I believe alot of people on here may have tunnel vision, predetermined as to what they will allow and think, even though just MAYBE, Badger is damn good at hiding their questionable practices from the BATF and have gotten lucky when it comes to checks and investigations. Not everybody that says they are for the cause(such as a gun shop owner) has the best intentions of the cause on their mind, dollar signs have a big impact when they are going into your pocket as the business owner, sometimes enough to make somebody do things to go against their better judgement.

ONCE AGAIN, JUST MY OPINION, DON'T WANT ANYBODY HUNTING ME DOWN AND BURNING ME AT THE STAKE....:uhoh:

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ROOK_WI wrote:

Milwaukee needs tocorrect itself, and quit pointing fingers. Milwaukee has a 'people problem' not a gun problem. There is nothing 'broke' at Badger, or any other gun store, so there is nothing to fix.

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This is true, or BATF would have shut them down already.

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yet another firearm used in a crime has come back to be from Badger,

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But, there was no mention of when this firearm was purchased, who purchased it, or evenif it was stolen 7-8 years ago. The report is trying to sensationalize the story, andomiting key parts of the story to fit their liberal view
What next? are they going to try and make the dealer look like he is driving to the exit of milwaukee county jail with a carload of firearms to sell them? or maybeout of his trunk on 6th & center.

Badger is damn good at hiding their questionable practices from the BATF and have gotten lucky when it comes to checks and investigations.

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Your quoted statement is obvious libel, slanderous at best! It wouldprobably be in your best interest to edit or delete it, I have seen people pursue legal action for much less. And that is a fairly large accusation you are making, especially with no actual knowledge of the inner working of their business.

Concerning this last news report, these guns thatthe newspaper says were traced back to Badger.
But have you ever considered that they could have been stolen from a home almost a decade back, and only recovered last week? They have probably changed paws at least9 or 10 times by now.

All thisJS-reporter is trying to do is vilianize a law-abiding business, and helpforward any upcoming legislation that will stop any and all private firearm sales. If badger was illegally selling guns, they would have been shut down years ago.