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Thread: Attempted car jacking

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    I was on my way to my work to pick up my check. I pull up behind a red older Cadillac stopped at a green light in the turn lane, traffic was dense and cars were building up behind me. I gave a single, short honk to alert the driver that the light was green. As soon a I honked, the passenger stepped out of the car and began to scream at me. He started banging on the hood of my truck, yelling to get out. I put the car in park, and I unbuckled my seatbelt to have better access to my gun. I then locked the doors. He then reached into his pocket, which caused me to upholstered my gun and opened my door. He flicked open a knife, and I stepped away from my truck and drew down on him. I told him to drop the knife; he didn't. At this point there was about 5-8 feet in between us, and he was now holding the knife at his side. He looked pissed and confused that I was pointing a gun at him. I told him a second time to drop it. He didn't drop it, but he looked like he was arguing with himself in his head about what to do. I told him he needed to drop the knife or I was going to shoot. He threw the knife at the curb and held his hands out. I told him to lay on his stomach, and put his hand out like an airplane. It was at this point I realized two things, 1, I had no way of calling 911 because my phone was in my car, and, 2, I wasn't paying any attention to the driver. I told him not to move and started to watch the driver. I was able to watch the guy on the ground out of my peripheral and see what the driver was doing. He was just sitting there watching me with his hands in the air.The lady that pulled behind me got out of her car and I could hear she was already on the phone with 911. I stood there for what seemed hours before a cop car pulled up in front of their car. He yelled at me to holster my gun and put my hands on top of my head. I did this, and he came and handcuffed the guy on the ground. Another patrol car came up and pulled the guy out of the car. A third cop came up and walked me to his car (with my hands on my head). He disarmed me and asked me what happened. I told him that I thought he was going to kill me, I'm really upset, and I'll answer his questions when I had time to calm down with a lawyer. The cops got the story form a bunch of the bystanders, so I didn't have to say anything (or incriminate myself accidentally). He gave me my magazine and a bullet back and told me to put it in my car. When I got back he gave me my gun and told me to put it in my car. Both guys were arrested (the driver had warrants). I was very happy with the way the police handled the situation. I didn't get guns pointed at me, I wasn't put in handcuffs, and I wasn't treated like a criminal. I was a victim from the second the cops had control of my gun.

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    wow. good to hear it ended well. I don't know what I would do if anyone tried to disarm me, LE or not though...

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    wow. good to hear it ended well. I don't know what I would do if anyone tried to disarm me, LE or not though...

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    n16ht5 wrote:
    wow. good to hear it ended well. I don't know what I would do if anyone tried to disarm me, LE or not though...
    Once law enforcement arrives, you're going to be disarmed one way or the other. You don't want to do it the hard way. Follow their instructions.

    To the OP, glad it worked out well. Way to take control of the situation. It sounds like the police had no problem with your statement. Did you eventually give a statement through your lawyer?

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    No, there was no reason for any further statement from me. I was clearly the victim based on everyone else's statements. I was never even really questioned. You mention lawyer and they don't really talk to you anymore. I felt the police handled the situation better than I could have hoped for. I'm really glad they didn't make me drop my gun on the asphalt or handcuff me.

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    Thanks for the info, and, again, good job!

    Joel

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    TylerEMT wrote:
    ...Both guys were arrested (the driver had warrants)...
    I'm still thinking about your part in this incident...but what were the guys arrested for, especially Mr. Knife Wielder?

    Also, why do you call this incident an "Attempted car jacking?"

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    HankT wrote:
    TylerEMT wrote:
    ...Both guys were arrested (the driver had warrants)...
    I'm still thinking about your part in this incident...but what were the guys arrested for, especially Mr. Knife Wielder?

    Also, why do you call this incident an "Attempted car jacking?"
    Careful there chief, you might hurt yourself.

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    Under the circumstances, it sounds like you did a great job. You answered the police questions are very well. Glad you are healthy and alive. I bet it was one of the biggest rushes of adreneline you've ever had. I also applaud your judgement for not shooting the guy when it wasn't neccessary, however I'm not sure I would react the same way knowing there was another person in the vehicle this assailant came from. Then again in all fairness, I really can't judge how I would react at all since I wasn't in that situation.

    The police reaction was acceptable as well. They said "holster your gun and put your hands on your head" not "DROP YOUR GUN AND GET ON THE GROUND FACE DOWN RIGHT NOW!"

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    Good use of a weapon to diffuse a situation that could have involved ambulance rides.

    The officers should be commended in writing.

    All 'round well done.

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    Sorry to hear about the incident and I'm glad you handled it well. I can't say exactly what I would do as I wasn't there but I've been fed up lately enough with criminals that the next time someone pulls a knife, he is not likely to be getting a warning.



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    I don't like the fact that you were told to put your hands on your head and then when walked to a police car, you were disarmed. Yes, I realize police do what they must in order to assure their own safety as well. After all, they don't know you from Adam. So I am really torn on this one in that regard. As you said, at least you weren't handcuffed and made to get down on the ground face down. THAT would really piss me off.

    I suppose it is largely a combination of a judgment call on the part of the police and which officers respond to the scene. Glad it all turned out well for you and good that you were armed. Tell this one to the idiots that keep asking, "why do you think you need to carry a gun?".

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    Just trying to put myself in the officer's place, I suspect he wanted to make sure TylerEMT didn't suddenly change his mind about not shooting the two "gentlemen". Sort of the same way they keep people separated while writing up a traffic accident. Sometimes tempers are still running much hotter than they appear.

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    Lone Star Veteran Ian's Avatar
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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    I don't like the fact that you were told to put your hands on your head and then when walked to a police car, you were disarmed. Yes, I realize police do what they must in order to assure their own safety as well. After all, they don't know you from Adam. So I am really torn on this one in that regard. As you said, at least you weren't handcuffed and made to get down on the ground face down. THAT would really piss me off.

    I suppose it is largely a combination of a judgment call on the part of the police and which officers respond to the scene. Glad it all turned out well for you and good that you were armed. Tell this one to the idiots that keep asking, "why do you think you need to carry a gun?".
    I think it actually went pretty well. He could have been laid out on the ground at gunpoint.

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    I believe who ever called the police must have done a good job explaining the situation, and dispatch did a good job of relaying that same information.

    All in all, that was not a bad way for everything to have progressed.

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    Wow! I'm a 24 year old living here in Flagstaff as well. I'm glad all this turned out good for you. When I was 18 I was held up at gun point at Thorpe Park. A lot of people say "Why do you need a gun? its FLAGSTAFF!" and I just say "Exactly...". This story reiterates for me the need to carry (i'm always carrying). Glad you are ok, you handled your self great. Maybe next time I'll be in the car behind you giving you back up ;-)

    EDIT: The person who called the police probably heard Tyler giving the BG commands like a LEO would and automatically knew the other dude had done something bad. I went through some handcuff training with NAU PD and it sounded like you were about to cuff him and felony arrest him. Good job.

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    Good job staying alive.

    2 points to ponder before your your next outing:

    1. Stay in the vehicle. Make the BG go the extra mile and prove he means you harm.

    2. When the gun comes out, don't talk; shoot. In this case you lucked out. Next time remember that your luck ran out!
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Good job staying alive.

    2 points to ponder before your your next outing:

    1. Stay in the vehicle. Make the BG go the extra mile and prove he means you harm.

    2. When the gun comes out, don't talk; shoot. In this case you lucked out. Next time remember that your luck ran out!
    I was thinking almost the same....

    from 5-8 feet away if the man was going to charge at him, he would have enough time to make a shot. Now if the BG had a gun shooting right away would have been a better thing to do. I dont want to say it was only a knife, but I think its better to do what he did under the conditions. The situation let him give the BG a choice of what to do next giving him time to make the next move on the BG if needed.

    Its better that no one got hurt at all

    But I agree with staying in the car and letting the BG make the move of trying to gain entry or breaking out a window, with the gun ready...

    Good job!

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    usSiR wrote:
    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Good job staying alive.

    2 points to ponder before your your next outing:

    1. Stay in the vehicle. Make the BG go the extra mile and prove he means you harm.

    2. When the gun comes out, don't talk; shoot. In this case you lucked out. Next time remember that your luck ran out!
    I was thinking almost the same....

    from 5-8 feet away if the man was going to charge at him, he would have enough time to make a shot. Now if the BG had a gun shooting right away would have been a better thing to do. I dont want to say it was only a knife, but I think its better to do what he did under the conditions. The situation let him give the BG a choice of what to do next giving him time to make the next move on the BG if needed.

    Its better that no one got hurt at all

    But I agree with staying in the car and letting the BG make the move of trying to gain entry or breaking out a window, with the gun ready...

    Good job!
    Wouldn't that give the BG the upper hand? Have you ever tried fighiting someone who is trying to drag you out of the drivers window? I imagen that it would be fairley difficult.

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    Wow, what a deal! Glad you were ok and it worked out the way it did!

    One thing to remember, any closer than 21' and the guy with the knife will probably get you before he drops even if you drill him in the blood pumper. I am by no means trying to second guess or say that I would have done differently. All I am saying is that when I read "...knife..." and then "...5-8 feet..." I was like HOLY CRACKERS - far too close for comfort.

    This is one of those great situations for discussion that worked out well where the OP didn't do anything wrong but could have done things differently (not right - just different). If Tyler had stayed in the car it very much could have ended up in a "have to shoot" situation, which it didn't. So he gets out and the guy is within 21'. Keep the door open and between you? What if he rushes and slams you between the door & car body? That isn't good. Retreat far enough to get the car between you and him? Maybe not feasible and retreat could be construed as cowardice leading to an attack and the necessity of a firing.

    Really, I can't think of a better outcome and not sure what else could have been done that wouldn't have led to the necessity to pull the trigger. Yeah, maybe some luck involved, but as the saying goes, I would rather be lucky than good any day.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    deepdiver wrote:
    This is one of those great situations for discussion that worked out well where the OP didn't do anything wrong but could have done things differently (not right - just different). If Tyler had stayed in the car it very much could have ended up in a "have to shoot" situation, which it didn't. So he gets out and the guy is within 21'. Keep the door open and between you? What if he rushes and slams you between the door & car body? That isn't good. Retreat far enough to get the car between you and him? Maybe not feasible and retreat could be construed as cowardice leading to an attack and the necessity of a firing.
    Sounds to me that OP may have instigated the conflict a bit.

    Why he got out of the car with a drawn pistol is.....um.....questionable. Need more data to know for sure. Probably a mistake, especially since it took him away from his phone.

    I'm still wondering whatthe guys werearrested for, especially Mr. Knife Wielder. That seems important.

    I'd like to read more details. We've only gotten a first single accont of the incident. There is more involved, I'm sure.


    Finally, this was no "attempted car jacking." It wa a crime, but it wasn't that one. Maybe I'm missing something...



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    This incident shows that there are no hard and fast "rules" on how to respond that are thought out in detail while sipping a cold beverage in the comfort of an easy chair... balancing "what to do if" against "what is the safest legally for me" thing in our heads....

    Although we can generalize about that "what to do if" while relaxing in comfort with our feet up the truth is the situation itself will dictate our response at the time while it is unfolding.

    After it is all over we can then (hopefully) return to our lazy boy... or the internet... and Monday morning quarterback it to death.

    Thing is... if it ends up with the bad guy losing, the intended victim unhurt, and the responder unhurt and not arrested.... it turned out good.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    HankT wrote:
    deepdiver wrote:
    This is one of those great situations for discussion that worked out well where the OP didn't do anything wrong but could have done things differently (not right - just different).┬* If Tyler had stayed in the car it very much could have ended up in a "have to shoot" situation, which it didn't.┬* So he gets out and the guy is within 21'.┬* Keep the door open and between you?┬* What if he rushes and slams you between the door & car body?┬* That isn't good.┬* Retreat far enough to get the car between you and him?┬* Maybe not feasible and retreat could be construed as cowardice leading to an attack and the necessity of a firing.┬*
    Sounds to me that OP may have instigated the conflict a bit.

    Why he got out of the car with a drawn pistol is.....um.....questionable. Need more data to know for sure. Probably a mistake, especially since it took him away from his phone.

    I'm still wondering what┬*the guys were┬*arrested for, especially Mr. Knife Wielder. That seems important.

    I'd like to read more details. We've only gotten a first single accont of the incident. There is more involved, I'm sure.


    Finally, this was no "attempted car jacking." It wa a crime, but it wasn't that one. Maybe I'm missing something...
    Remember what happens when you assume?

    Gotta love Hank, always trying to blame the victim. In Hank's little world, there is no such thing as a clean act of self-defense. It's impossible that assault could ever occur without it being somehow, secretly, the fault of the victim for bringing it upon himself. Makes you wonder why he's on this forum, doesn't it?

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    marshaul wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    deepdiver wrote:
    This is one of those great situations for discussion that worked out well where the OP didn't do anything wrong...
    Sounds to me that OP may have instigated the conflict a bit...
    ...Gotta love Hank, always trying to blame the victim...
    If anybodywould know aboutinstigating conflict, its HankT.

    You should be careful aboutcriticizing an expert's opinion, Marshaul.



    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    I don't like the fact that you were told to put your hands on your head and then when walked to a police car, you were disarmed. Yes, I realize police do what they must in order to assure their own safety as well. After all, they don't know you from Adam. So I am really torn on this one in that regard. As you said, at least you weren't handcuffed and made to get down on the ground face down. THAT would really piss me off.

    I suppose it is largely a combination of a judgment call on the part of the police and which officers respond to the scene. Glad it all turned out well for you and good that you were armed. Tell this one to the idiots that keep asking, "why do you think you need to carry a gun?".
    I keep my answers extremely simple, if they continue with further stupidity I say I guess you will never understand till you become a victim and walk away.
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