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Thread: What was with the signs on the doors to the gun show today?

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    "Firearm transfers only inside the building, anything outside the building will be prosecuted"



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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    You're kidding?????????????

    What how?

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    hsmith wrote:
    "Firearm transfers only inside the building, anything outside the building will be prosecuted"
    yeah.. good luck with that here in VA.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Just wear a T-shirt that says: "False arrests will be vigorously sued."

    Or you could be more subtle about it: "My attorney wants another Lear jet."

    Or, perhaps even better: "My attorney'swife is driving him nuts with her demand fora vacation home in The Hamptons."

    "My attorney is a legal activist. His slogan is 'LITIGATE NOW!'"

    "My attorney especially likes targets who mistakenly think they are protected by qualified immunity."




    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I assume this is The Nations Gunshow in Chantilly? Any pictures of the sign? I'm sure they won't like you taking pictures inside, but you can probably get a shot of the sign if you take it then put your camera away. I didn't see any such policy on their webpage.

    Of course the million dollar question to ask all the officials there (and I hope they get this question hundreds of times) is "what exactly are you going to prosecute here?"

    TFred

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Before everyone gets their attorneys on the phone, let me offer an idea.

    I think, could be wrong here, but I think what they are trying to say is that dealers who have an FFL cannot make a sale in the parking lot outside of conducting a normal background check.

    I dont recall the sign but I would imagine, knowing the show promoters, that the sign probably has nothing to do with private sales, it has to do with "firearm transfers"by licensed FFL dealers.

    Again, a guess, but the "let's call our attorney and sue" talk is a bit pre-mature, imho.
    James Reynolds

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    Before everyone gets their attorneys on the phone, let me offer an idea.

    I think, could be wrong here, but I think what they are trying to say is that dealers who have an FFL cannot make a sale in the parking lot outside of conducting a normal background check.

    I dont recall the sign but I would imagine, knowing the show promoters, that the sign probably has nothing to do with private sales, it has to do with "firearm transfers"by licensed FFL dealers.

    Again, a guess, but the "let's call our attorney and sue" talk is a bit pre-mature, imho.
    Hey Pro, I saw you were going to be teaching a class up there... will you get a chance to get over to the show itself?

    I would suppose most folks here don't want to jump the gun, but the problem with your possible explanation is that if it's quoted correctly and in the context we are led to believe, that's simply not what the sign says. At best, this seems to fall under the same category as the slimy "no illegal guns allowed" signs we see from time to time. Meaningless to the informed, yet authoritative and full of consequences to those who are not.

    I hope someone can get a picture. IMHO it's something that should definitely be chased home.

    TFred


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    TFred wrote:
    SNIP...the problem with your possible explanation is that if it's quoted correctly and in the context we are led to believe, that's simply not what the sign says...
    +1

    A transfer is a transfer is a transfer,whether it is a sale or gift. The sign, as reported anyway, didn't say anything about backround checks.

    No sense in getting wishy-washy about it, making up some possible soft-pedal explanation. It can never hurt to let the government or whoever might contribute to a prosecution know thatthese colonials,

    They augur misgovernment at a distance; and snuff the approach of tyranny in every tainted breeze. --Edmund Burke address to Parliament 22 March 1775. Sixth paragraph at the link below.

    http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/found...s/v1ch1s2.html
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    Before everyone gets their attorneys on the phone, let me offer an idea.

    I think, could be wrong here, but I think what they are trying to say is that dealers who have an FFL cannot make a sale in the parking lot outside of conducting a normal background check.

    I dont recall the sign but I would imagine, knowing the show promoters, that the sign probably has nothing to do with private sales, it has to do with "firearm transfers"by licensed FFL dealers.

    Again, a guess, but the "let's call our attorney and sue" talk is a bit pre-mature, imho.
    Hey Pro, I saw you were going to be teaching a class up there... will you get a chance to get over to the show itself?

    I would suppose most folks here don't want to jump the gun, but the problem with your possible explanation is that if it's quoted correctly and in the context we are led to believe, that's simply not what the sign says. At best, this seems to fall under the same category as the slimy "no illegal guns allowed" signs we see from time to time. Meaningless to the informed, yet authoritative and full of consequences to those who are not.

    I hope someone can get a picture. IMHO it's something that should definitely be chased home.

    TFred
    TFred - I went there this afternoon and saw some kind of sign on the door but didnt really read it.

    I understand what you are saying, and perhaps the sign is poorly worded. In either event, I think a bit of restraint is in order until an explanation/clarification is received. It just seems that so many posts here lately have taken the tone of "call your lawyer, turn your voice recorder on, sue the police, yadda yadda yadda".
    James Reynolds

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Citizen, that's a great quote, I had never heard it before... a little more text is even better:

    [Speaking of the Colonists, that'd be us...] In other countries, the people, more simple, and of a less mercurial cast, judge of an ill principle in government only by an actual grievance; here they anticipate the evil, and judge of the pressure of the grievance by the badness of the principle. They augur misgovernment at a distance, and snuff the approach of tyranny in every tainted breeze.
    Cool!

    TFred


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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Poorly worded signs, rules, laws are the bane of our existence.

    We do talk freely of possible means of recourse, but I seldom see anyone jumping into a formal position without thoroughly investigating first. Why would anyone suppose that this would be handled differently?

    The facts will come to light and then intelligent minds will prevail.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    TFred wrote:
    Citizen, that's a great quote, I had never heard it before... a little more text is even better:

    [Speaking of the Colonists, that'd be us...] In other countries, the people, more simple, and of a less mercurial cast, judge of an ill principle in government only by an actual grievance; here they anticipate the evil, and judge of the pressure of the grievance by the badness of the principle. They augur misgovernment at a distance, and snuff the approach of tyranny in every tainted breeze.
    Cool!

    TFred
    Oh, yes. One of my favorites, too. I also like the historical precedent earlier in the paragraph for us reading and knowing the law :

    Permit me, Sir, to add another circumstance in our colonies, which contributes no mean part towards the growth and effect of this untractable spirit. I mean their education. In no country perhaps in the world is the law so general a study...all who read, and most do read, endeavour to obtain some smattering in that science...This study renders men acute, inquisitive, dexterous, prompt in attack, ready in defence, full of resources.

    I like those words--"untractable spirit." That last sentence has a special place in my heart, too.

    And, Burkewas right. What do we see often here. Men who read and know the law stand up to government! Ed did it recently to the City of Alexandria, VA over their illegal parks gun ban. All over the US, OCers are standing up to government because they know their 4A rights (search and seizure) as well as their 2A rights.

    Instead of just saying, "that ain't right," after the fact,they can say, "Officer, I do not consent to seizing my gun"and "Why am I being detained?"

    I get a special warm and fuzzy feeling when I think that a pushy cop or over-reaching county supervisor has the same consternation the redcoats and Parliament must have had, "Oh, $hit! These guys know the law, and they're coming out swinging."
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Poorly worded signs, rules, laws are the bane of our existence.

    We do talk freely of possible means of recourse, but I seldom see anyone jumping into a formal position without thoroughly investigating first. Why would anyone suppose that this would be handled differently?

    The facts will come to light and then intelligent minds will prevail.

    Yata hey
    Lets not go too carried awaywith this.

    I said nothing about calling attorneys or suing. I must making up T-shirt lettering for heaven's sake. The smiley at the bottom of the post made it a humorous post, not meant to be literal.

    ProShooter just jumped the gun a little. No harm done.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    Lets not go too carried awaywith this.
    Leave it to Citizen to say, "Let's not go."

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Lets not go too carried awaywith this.
    Leave it to Citizen to say, "Let's not go."

    Yata hey
    OK, ok, ok. I get it.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    I'll see if I can get a gander at the sign tomorrow and perhaps an explanation.
    James Reynolds

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    Yeah, I should have grabbed a picture of it. They are on the glass front doors if anyone goes tomorrow.

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    How was the show? Prices? I may try and stop by tomorrow before headin' downtown for the Caps game!

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    hunter45 wrote:
    How was the show? Prices? I may try and stop by tomorrow before headin' downtown for the Caps game!
    I only checked prices for a few specific things and felt that they were high.
    James Reynolds

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    hunter45 wrote:
    How was the show? Prices? I may try and stop by tomorrow before headin' downtown for the Caps game!
    prices weren't bad - AR's were seen in the $7XX range

    I want to get a 22LR AR upper...

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    Campaign Veteran pourshot's Avatar
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    hsmith wrote:
    "Firearm transfers only inside the building, anything outside the building will be prosecuted"
    Makes sense to me that they would want them inside where they can control the camera access, but the "will be prosecuted" part seems more than a little over the top.

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    pourshot wrote:
    hsmith wrote:
    "Firearm transfers only inside the building, anything outside the building will be prosecuted"
    Makes sense to me that they would want them inside where they can control the camera access, but the "will be prosecuted" part seems more than a little over the top.
    Forgive me. What do cameras have to do with transfers? I'm not trying to be a smart aleck*; I really don't know.

    * I would never dream of trying to out-smart-aleck Pourshot, the king of smart-alecks.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    pourshot wrote:
    hsmith wrote:
    "Firearm transfers only inside the building, anything outside the building will be prosecuted"
    Makes sense to me that they would want them inside where they can control the camera access, but the "will be prosecuted" part seems more than a little over the top.
    Forgive me. What do cameras have to do with transfers? I'm not trying to be a smart aleck*; I really don't know.

    * I would never dream of trying to out-smart-aleck Pourshot, the king of smart-alecks.
    I think they (gun show promoters) don't want to give the local/national news crews footage of a face-to-face transfer that they will use in a 20/20 hit piece describing it as a back-alley illegal gun-show loophole fully automatic .50 caliber assault weapon baby killer deal.

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    Campaign Veteran pourshot's Avatar
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    essayons wrote:
    I think they (gun show promoters) don't want to give the local/national news crews footage of a face-to-face transfer that they will use in a 20/20 hit piece describing it as a back-alley illegal gun-show loophole fully automatic .50 caliber assault weapon baby killer deal.
    Exactly, or maybe even something unusual.

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    Oh, I see. Its either a prosecution for doing a legal transfer in front of a news camera. Or, a PR move by the promoter to make it look like they are doing something about legal transfers.

    I guess its time to run some expose's on the nat'l media. You know, some undercover cameras.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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