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Thread: Question about Knives

  1. #1
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    First off, Hello y'all, I'm new here, this is my first real post, I've followed the website for about a month now trying to learn everything and anything pertaining to open carry and its been most helpful!

    Now for the question.

    I've always been told carrying a folding knife with a blade longer than 3 inches was a problem. Can anybody quote me a law that says it is or is not?

    Mind you this knife is not intended for defensive reasons, only for everyday cutting tasks.

    Also, How about Assisted opening knives? Legal or not?

    The two knives I'm looking at that fall into these categories are the Kershaw Skyline(3 1/8" blade) and SOG Flash 1(Assisted Opening)

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance!

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    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    Someone much smarter than I will jump in on this one, but all I can tell you is that there is no preemption on knives. Every town, village or city can have their own laws on it, that can be enforced.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Welcome Souk: This should answer your question.
    Michigan -750.226... Carrying with unlawful intent
    Any person who, with intent to use the same unlawfully
    against the person of another, goes armed with a pistol
    or other firearm or dagger, dirk, razor, stiletto, or
    knife having a blade over 3 inches in length, or any
    other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument, shall
    be guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment in
    the state prison for not more than 5 years or by a fine
    of not more than 2,500 dollars.

    Blade length is only determined if you have unlawful intent for its use.

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    WARCHILD wrote:
    Welcome Souk: This should answer your question.
    Michigan -750.226... Carrying with unlawful intent
    Any person who, with intent to use the same unlawfully
    against the person of another, goes armed with a pistol
    or other firearm or dagger, dirk, razor, stiletto, or
    knife having a blade over 3 inches in length, or any
    other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument, shall
    be guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment in
    the state prison for not more than 5 years or by a fine
    of not more than 2,500 dollars.

    Blade length is only determined if you have unlawful intent for its use.
    Thanks for the welcome and the reply!

    Any more information anybody has to offer would still be great, especially on the assisted open part of the question.
    A felony weapons charge, 5 years in prison and $2,500 fine does not sound so fun, so I wanna be 100% sure before I carry one of these items.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Complete cite sent in PM.
    It should answer your questions, if not....ask away.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Someone much smarter than I will jump in on this one,

    I'm not much smarter than a rock , but I just happen to have the file handy for this one. Used it on the talk show. :P

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    The knife laws are so messed up I never carry any knives out of my house. I don't recommend carrying knives. It's much easier to get charged with a CCW carrying knives then a pistol.

    I recently purchased a double-edged survival knife. Does Michigan law allow me to carry this in my vehicle?

    MCL 750.227 No. A dagger, dirk, stiletto, or double-edged non-folding stabbing instrument of any length, or any other dangerous weapon, except a hunting knife adapted and carried as such, cannot be carried concealed on or about a person, or whether concealed or otherwise in any vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in their own home, place of business or on other land possessed by the person

    http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-227

    Is it illegal to have a knife with a blade over 3 inches in my possession?

    MCL 750.226 No. Michigan law specifies that a person, with intent to use the knife unlawfully against another, shall not go armed with a knife having a blade over 3 inches in length.

    http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-226


    Then you have to check every city/town/village you plan on visiting local ordinances related to knives.

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    Regular Member Springfield Smitty's Avatar
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    750.226a Pocket knife opened by mechanical device; unlawful sale or possession; persons exempted.

    Sec. 226a. Any person who shall sell or offer to sell, or any person who shall have in his possession any knife having the appearance of a pocket knife, the blade or blades of which can be opened by the flick of a button, pressure on a handle or other mechanical contrivance shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not to exceed 1 year or by a fine of not to exceed $300.00, or both. The provisions of this section shall not apply to any one-armed person carrying a knife on his person in connection with his living requirements.

    History: Add. 1952, Act 233, Eff. Sept. 18, 1952.
    -U.S. Army Veteran (2002-2005) 11BVB4 (Infantry, Airborne, Ranger, some other stuff) SGT (E-5)
    -Public Service Professional - I've done it all: LEO, FF, and EMT
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    I am not an attorney. None of my statements should be accepted, nor are they intended to be offered, as legal advice or fact of law.

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Springfield Smitty wrote:

    750.226a Pocket knife opened by mechanical device; unlawful sale or possession; persons exempted.

    Sec. 226a. Any person who shall sell or offer to sell, or any person who shall have in his possession any knife having the appearance of a pocket knife, the blade or blades of which can be opened by the flick of a button, pressure on a handle or other mechanical contrivance shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not to exceed 1 year or by a fine of not to exceed $300.00, or both. The provisions of this section shall not apply to any one-armed person carrying a knife on his person in connection with his living requirements.

    History: Add. 1952, Act 233, Eff. Sept. 18, 1952.
    This refers to a switch blade or similar, that is opened solely by a mechanical device. Assisted opening requires you to actually attempt to open the blade normally and springs up only once its partially opened... so I don't know if that counts.

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    750.227 leaves no doubt. Being cought concealing a knife is a felony equal to that of a concealed gun.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Mike: While I respect your understanding, you're reading too much into what is written. The primary phrase everyone overlooks is "with unlawful intent". If you don't have a crime in mind, length does not come into play.
    Also, double edged knives are only restricted if they are..non-folding. You can carry a straight blade, single edge, in a sheath worn on your belt...it's legal. Not withstanding, I do agree carrying one can be a pain. You are correct in that it seems every city, village, township, have their own ordinances regarding knives and are not covered by any preemption law. I have carried a folding belt knife for over 50 years and have never had a question about it; length or otherwise. And believe me, I have had a lot of run ins with various LEO's.

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    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    While I tend to agree with you, I also don't believe that somebody who OC's should carry a knife w/o knowing exactly what the law is on it, for w/e they might be, city, twp. or village. As we know, it's getting harder and harder for LEO to stick us with something regarding our firearms, we also know that they don't like it and would like to stop it if they could. I don't see any reason to give them something that could potentially trip you up. Is it silly that you can legally carry a gun, but in some instances, not a knife, yes, but it's still the law, where applicable, and needs to be watched. I'd hate to hear a story on how somebody got out of any charges for OCing but had to do time, or spend a copious amount of money to get out of a knife charge.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Very true, and I completely agree. As with any action, one needs to be aware of all applicable laws restricting his/her actions. That is part of the valuable function of this forum. Inform the un-informed, when we can.
    I also agree with the well known fact; It appears ALL laws are intentionally written in a confused manner to keep the sheep in the corral. I myself have had to explain and show various LEO's that the 3" inch rule or "palm of the hand", is not a valid restriction for any pocket/belt knife. It is up to each individual to protect him/her self with knowledge of what they are doing.

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    What about a 9" blade hunting knife in truck?

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    I believe a 'hunting knife adapted and carried as such' was a protected item... unless I read that wrong.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    My highlight added;

    Michigan Knife Laws
    Michigan -750.226... Carrying with unlawful intent
    Any person who, with intent to use the same unlawfully against the person of another, goes armed with a pistol
    or other firearm or dagger, dirk, razor, stiletto, or knife having a blade over 3 inches in length, or any other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument, shall be guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than 5 years or by a fine of not more than 2,500 dollars.

    - 750.226a. Pocket knife opened by mechanical device...Any person who shall sell or offer to sell, or any person who shall have in his possession any knife having the appearance of a pocket knife, the blade or blades of which can be opened by a flick of a button, pressure on a handle or other mechanical contrivance shall be guilty of a misdemeanor... [Also, concealed carry maybe charged as a felony under 750.227.] The provisions of this section [750.226a] shall not apply to any one-armed person carrying a knife on his person in connection with his living requirements.

    - 750.227. (1) A person shall not carry a dagger, dirk, stiletto, a double-edged non-folding stabbing instrument of any length, or any dangerous weapon, except a hunting knife adapted and carried as such, concealed on or about his or her person, or whether concealed or otherwise in any vehicle... except in his or her dwelling house [or] place of business... (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a felony...

    - 750.222a Double-edged, non-folding stabbing instrument defined.
    (1) As used in this chapter, 'doubled-edged, non-folding stabbing instrument' does not include a knife, tool,
    implement, arrowhead, or artifact manufactured from stone by means of conchoidal fracturing.
    (2) Subsection (1) does not apply to an item being transported in a vehicle, unless the item is in a container
    and inaccessible to the driver.

    History: Add. 2000, Act 343, Imd. Eff. Dec. 27, 2000 .

    - 259.80f Possessing... certain items in sterile area of airport;
    (1) An individual shall not possess, carry, or attempt to possess or carry any of the following in a sterile area
    of a commercial airport:
    (a) Firearm.
    (b) Explosive.
    (c) Knife with a blade of any length.
    (d) Razor, box cutter, or item with a similar blade.
    (e) Dangerous weapon.
    (2) Except as provided in subsection (3), an individual who violates subsection (1) is guilty of a misdemeanor
    punishable by imprisonment for not more than 1 year or a fine of not more than $1,000.00, or both.
    (3) An individual who violates subsection (1) while doing any of the following is guilty of a felony punishable
    by imprisonment for not more than 10 years or a fine of not more than $10,000.00, or both:
    (a) Getting on or attempting to get on an aircraft.
    (b) Placing, attempting to place, or attempting to have placed on an aircraft an item listed in subsection (1).
    (c) Committing or attempting to commit a felony.
    (4) [Exempts most officials]...
    (7) As used in this section:
    (a) 'Commercial airport' means an airport that has regularly scheduled commercial flights to and from other
    destinations.
    (c) 'Sterile area' means that term as defined in 14 C.F.R. 107.1.





    History: Add. 2001, Act 225, Eff. Apr. 1, 2002 .

    - 380.1313 Dangerous weapon found in possession of pupil...
    (1) If a dangerous weapon is found in the possession of a pupil while the pupil is in attendance at school or a
    school activity or while the pupil is en-route to or from school on a school bus, the superintendent of the
    school district or intermediate school district, or his or her designee, immediately shall report that finding
    to the pupil's parent or legal guardian and the local law enforcement agency.
    (2) If a school official finds that a dangerous weapon is in the possession of a pupil as described in subsection
    (1), the school official may confiscate the dangerous weapon or shall request a law enforcement agency to
    respond as soon as possible and to confiscate the dangerous weapon. If a school official confiscates a
    dangerous weapon under this subsection, the school official shall give the dangerous weapon to a law
    enforcement agency and shall not release the dangerous weapon to any other person, including the legal
    owner of the dangerous weapon. A school official who complies in good faith with this section is not
    civilly or criminally liable for that compliance...
    (4) As used in this section, 'dangerous weapon' means a firearm, dagger, dirk, stiletto, knife with a blade over
    3 inches in length, pocket knife opened by a mechanical device, iron bar, or brass knuckles.


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    EC and Warchild,

    Thanks, Then the real issue about the 9" hunting knife would be the proof of lawful intent if contested by LE. So possessing a hunting license, and other hunting gear in the truck would be evidence of intentfor lawful hunting usage.

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    theoretically unless the game you were claiming to be hunting is 'out of season'... then you'd be poaching and thus have unlawful intent.

    You could, however, claim to be hunting one of those species Michigan deems as 'pests' to be hunted year round, Raccoons and Coyotes come to mind...

    Then you wouldn't even need a license.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    In my opinion yes, but not in the vehicle compartment. I would not want to be a test case on that one. Again, common sense must prevail. If someone has the finances and capabilities to push the issue and become a case law test, more power to them. I myself cannot and must err to the side of caution.

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    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    The way I read the law is that the only regulated knives are double edged non folding, and the mechanically opened ones. The rest are not mentioned. The law does not even say you must be actually hunting, only that the knife is adapted and carried as such. However, this is only the state law. Local laws vary from non-existent to strictly forbidding. You must know your laws if you feel you're going to be tripped up on it. Theoretically, if you follow the rules of open carry, the contents of your pockets should never be revealed. If your pockets are illegally searched, and your property seized, you have a 4th amendment violation case. Some folks err on the side of caution, and that's generally what I do as well, but when it comes to carrying a pocket knife, I just do it. I've been down that road more than once, and come out squeaky clean. You must do for yourself what you're comfortable with. Bottom line is, no matter what you choose, know the law. Same as for handguns.

    Food for thought, if having any sort of knife in your car was against the law, how are they sold at nearly every store? Who walks to the store to buy a knife they can't have concealed or in a car???
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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Evil Creamsicle wrote:
    theoretically unless the game you were claiming to be hunting is 'out of season'... then you'd be poaching and thus have unlawful intent.

    You could, however, claim to be hunting one of those species Michigan deems as 'pests' to be hunted year round, Raccoons and Coyotes come to mind...

    Then you wouldn't even need a license.
    Just a short FYI... both Raccoons and Coyotes have seasons; stating that you are "hunting" one of these critters may not be wise.


    Coyote Hunting Seasons: Statewide Jul. 15 - Apr. 15 (closed in Zone 1 & REOPENED in Zone 2 during Nov. 15-30)
    Coyote may be taken on private property by a property owner or designee all year if they are doing or about to do damage on private property. A license or written permit is not needed.


    Raccoon Hunting Season
    :Statewide Oct. 1 - Jan. 31
    Raccoon may be taken on private property by a property owner or designee all year if they are doing or about to do damage on private property. A license or written permit is not needed.


    http://www.michigan.gov/images/dnr/t...s_289731_7.jpg



    I would suggest mentioning that you are hunting one of these:


    Species with Year-round Hunting Seasons The following small game species may be taken year-round with any valid hunting license* except within state park and recreation areas from April 1 to September 14:
    • opossum
    • porcupine
    • red squirrel
    • skunk
    • thirteen-lined ground squirrel
    • woodchuck
    • weasel
    The following species may be taken with a firearm year-round with any valid hunting license except within state park and recreation areas from April 1 to September 14:
    • English (house) sparrow
    • European starling
    • feral pigeon (rock dove)
    *No license is required for a resident, resident's spouse or resident's children to hunt small game on the enclosed farmlands where they live.

    From: http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7...0447--,00.html





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  22. #22
    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    hmm... I must have been thinking of the 'unless they are about to do damage' provision.

    my mistake.

  23. #23
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Evil Creamsicle wrote:
    hmm... I must have been thinking of the 'unless they are about to do damage' provision.

    my mistake.
    Oh... not really a mistake as it appears that you were just sort of "thinking out loud".

    But... I really would hate someone, as remote as it may be, to say that they are out looking for raccoon and then bam... they get another charge leveled on them.

    Some of this has been well covered in previous posts, but here is a link with some info: I especially like the cases listed at the end.

    http://knife-expert.com/mi.txt

    A more general/historical understanding of knife laws can be found here:

    http://www.akti.org/PDFS/KnifeLaws.pdf
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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