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Thread: cc on private property in states that don't recognize my ccw

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    I travel to lots of states, for work mostly we work on wal-mart and other large box store construction sites. I am typically on the job site for 2-4 weeks working primarily at night so that other contractors are out of our way. there is never any "no firearms" signs and even if the state allows OC but does not recognize my ccw, my position of being a supervisor (ie telling people what to do and somtimes needing to get angry when things arnt done) i see it in bad taste to oc while on the job site. We use a hand full of temps from whatever area we are in as well so they don't know me i could see them feeling threatened by the boss with a gun on his hip. I would rather protect myself and my employee's by CC and oc when off the jobsite (if the state does not reconize my ccw). if i where to have to use it in self defense i dont want to be arrested for illegaly carrying my firearm. not carrying is not an option to me.

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    also asking any job-site superintendent or general contractor for permission to cc on the property is opening up a big can of worms im not about to get into ether. these guys can be hard enough to deal with without inviting a problem.

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    Ezrider wrote:
    I travel to lots of states, for work mostly we work on wal-mart and other large box store construction sites. I am typically on the job site for 2-4 weeks working primarily at night so that other contractors are out of our way. there is never any "no firearms" signs and even if the state allows OC but does not recognize my ccw, my position of being a supervisor (ie telling people what to do and somtimes needing to get angry when things arnt done) i see it in bad taste to oc while on the job site. We use a hand full of temps from whatever area we are in as well so they don't know me i could see them feeling threatened by the boss with a gun on his hip. I would rather protect myself and my employee's by CC and oc when off the jobsite (if the state does not reconize my ccw). if i where to have to use it in self defense i dont want to be arrested for illegaly carrying my firearm. not carrying is not an option to me.
    You must be a Theory X guy.

    Uh, good luck with that approach...

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    I'm actually a very easy guy to get along with at work, but there does come times where you have to get tough to get things done we work on a tight time schedule although I'm the first one to buy lunch for the crew out of my own pocket or do other things like that to reward for a good days work. Every person is different and reacts differently you have to motivate them in different ways. Lets keep this on topic however.

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    Ezrider wrote:
    I'm actually a very easy guy to get along with at work, but there does come times where you have to get tough to get things done we work on a tight time schedule although I'm the first one to buy lunch for the crew out of my own pocket or do other things like that to reward for a good days work.
    Yep, confirmed. Theory X all the way...

    Uhm, do you make them jump up in the air for the food morsels??



    Ezrider wrote:
    Lets keep this on topic however.
    Well I do have a question. You are a self-descirbed hard-charging and take-charge kinda guy, right? And you believe what you know....and know what you believe. You, ahem, get things done! Right again?

    Just why is it that you cannot get your situation explained to the job-site superintendent or the GC so that you can clear carrying a gun with them?

    Isn't that the right thing to do?

    If it is, then why don't you have the wherewithal to go do it? Aren't you hiding something from those two that they should really know???

    Maybe you could break it to him real easy-like...maybe when he takes you to lunch sometime. Just a suggestion.

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    The issue with bringing this up to an superintendent or general contractor is they will use anything they can for the lesser of your own good or cheat you or your company in any way they can. They are typically not ones to debate anything. There has never been any written no firearms policy or signs prohibiting it on any job site that i have been on although, if I bring it to there attention that I will be carrying a firearm on the property and they tell me no then I'm left defenseless. Just like in the law if there is no law against something then therefore it is legal. lets face it on an construction site in the middle of the night is not a good place to be unarmed.

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    Ezrider wrote:
    The issue with bringing this up to an superintendent or general contractor is they will use anything they can for the lesser of your own good or cheat you or your company in any way they can. They are typically not ones to debate anything. There has never been any written no firearms policy or signs prohibiting it on any job site that i have been on although, if I bring it to there attention that I will be carrying a firearm on the property and they tell me no then I'm left defenseless. Just like in the law if there is no law against something then therefore it is legal. lets face it on an construction site in the middle of the night is not a good place to be unarmed.
    So, and correct me if I'm wrong here, you are now carrying on site without permission of the people and companies in charge.

    Is that it... yes?

    Or let me get at it another way. If they found that you were CCing, what would they likely say or do to you?

    BTW, what state is your CCW from?

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    north dakota class 2

    you do make a valid point, about permission. but do you ask permission to carry your fire arm into a store or any other place privet property unless there is a sign or policy posted saying that you are not allowed to do so or unless you are asked to leave or disarm after you have entered the place of privet property. from my understanding the most they can do is ask you to leave or have a trespass warrant issued if you are in compliance with state law. however in this case i would not be exactly in accordance with state law but am still legal to possess a firearm. witch is what makes this a gray area to me.

    what would they do if they found out? well it would be impossible for them to find out unless i have to use it in self defense no one has x ray vision. even though my employer knows i carry a firearm and has never expressed any concern on the issue if i were to loose my job i would rather do that than than be dead.

    my question is more about legal ramifications. If i had to draw my weapon from a cc position in self defense in a state that does not recognize my cc permit while on privet property. by that point my job or a possible trespass order are not to high on my list of concerns.



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    I should also mention that with the acceptation of one general contractor that we have worked on 5 sites with, 2 of which times we had the same superintendent. other than that exception every job site is a different general contractor and superintendent. so you can see that asking permission from every job site I go on it would in a matter of a short time come out to a disadvantage of mine. get one anti superintendent that throws a fit about me even asking throws a fit with the owner of the company i work for and then all of a sudden my boss see's me carrying as a liability and then next thing you know i my boss will ask me to no longer carry at work period. that then means that whenever im working at all i will be forced to disarm or carry ageist the "rules". This is what i mean by opening up a can of worms.

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    Do not carry a firearm concealed in a state that does not recognize your CCP unless it is Alaska or Vermont.

    Again DO NOT CARRY A CONCEALED FIREARM INA STATE IN WHICH YOU ARE NOT LICENSED TO DO SO UNLESS THAT STATE IS ALASKA OR VERMONT.

    AGAIN DO NOT DO THAT.



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    i am currently looking into what states i can get non resident ccw's in that will get me as close to a nationwide carry as posible

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    i came across a useful tool and thought i would share, http://apps.carryconcealed.net/legal/reciprocity.php

    looks like a utah permit will open me up to a lot of states

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    The contracting company will never give you permission to carry as they do not own the property you are developing. The property is owned by the company that engaged your firm. As you are staying for a time in the state and not just transiting through, you are subject to the laws of the state. If you get caught with a firearm on a job site in a state that doesn't recognize your permit, you will be subject to whatever penalties that state has. Clear??

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    Ezrider wrote:
    i came across a useful tool and thought i would share, http://apps.carryconcealed.net/legal/reciprocity.php

    looks like a utah permit will open me up to a lot of states
    Beware, that data is stale. For example, Nevada no longer honors Utah permits; there are also other inaccuracies. The copyright at the bottom of the map is 2007, if that's any indication of the last time the data was refreshed.

    There are a few other good-looking reciprocity-map sites, but they're only as accurate as the last time the webmaster reviewed the laws of all the states and updated his site.

    Handgunlaw.us at least puts an update time-stamp at the top of their page. But laws change, reciprocity agreements change, and they could still be wrong. I will say that handgunlaw.us seems to do a good job at keeping their site up-to-date.

    NRA-ILA is another source of information, though not as up-to-date as handgunlaw.us; and certainly not as up-to-date as the State Legislature, State Police, and Attorneys General.

    Believe nothing that you read on the Internet (including this post ). .gov and .org Top-Level Domains (TLD) have better track records than others, but they're just as susceptible to mistakes, outdatedness, and lies.

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    IIRC from my research from a while back... A combination of Utah, Virginia, Florida, and your home state is about as close as you can get to full reciprocity (however, there are still plenty of exceptions...) For example: I was considering getting only a Virginia non-res permit as it will cover me most everywhere I go and doesn't have as many hoops to go through as Texas... Then I discovered that although Illinois recognizes Virginia's permit, it will ONLY recognize a permit from the state you currently are a resident of, therefore a non-res Virginia permit will not cover me when visiting my parents....

    As for your dilemma, FIRST I will Echo what thx said: If the state you are in does not recognize your CCW/CHL/whatever... DO NOT CARRY IN A MANNER YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BY THAT STATE!!!! Talk about a 'can of worms'...

    I do however sympathize with your position as my job requires constant travel, and not always through the best of places/times of day/etc, however the end point of my journeys is always to a jobsite location that has a gunbuster sign posted and is on private property... Technically (for the areas I service anyway) gunbuster signs do not carry any legal weight and the most that could be legally done is asking me to leave/charge me with trespass etc... However, further than that it could likely cost me customers/my job... The decision at that point has to be made if I FOLLOW STATE LAWS and follow a personal 'don't ask/don't tell' policy in order to have my preferred method of self defense with me, or do I 'settle' for a lesser form of defense...

    I will let you muse about my daily decision...

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    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    Gator5713 wrote:
    IIRC from my research from a while back... A combination of Utah, Virginia, Florida, and your home state is about as close as you can get to full reciprocity (however, there are still plenty of exceptions...) For example: I was considering getting only a Virginia non-res permit as it will cover me most everywhere I go and doesn't have as many hoops to go through as Texas... Then I discovered that although Illinois recognizes Virginia's permit, it will ONLY recognize a permit from the state you currently are a resident of, therefore a non-res Virginia permit will not cover me when visiting my parents....
    What now? Illinois recognizes Virginia permits to conceal handguns?

    I think you're mistaken.

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    i talked to the instructor that i took my ccwp classes with and he said that if i add a Utah Minnesota and Florida permit it would get me the closest to a nation wide carry he said over 33 states. he also said that with the new class 1 North Dakota permit it will be opening up more states as well, there are still a lot of states that are pending. on it though but currently an aditional 4 states will now honor the northdakota class 1 permit and they are expecting more.

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    You are jeapordizing your livelihood (your career) if you carry without permission on a job site. If you leave the weapon in your car while parking along the periphery of the job site, you are probably in less jeapordy.

    However, you are always subject to state and local laws.

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    Ezrider wrote:
    I should also mention that with the acceptation of one general contractor that we have worked on 5 sites with, 2 of which times we had the same superintendent. other than that exception every job site is a different general contractor and superintendent. so you can see that asking permission from every job site I go on it would in a matter of a short time come out to a disadvantage of mine. get one anti superintendent that throws a fit about me even asking throws a fit with the owner of the company i work for and then all of a sudden my boss see's me carrying as a liability and then next thing you know i my boss will ask me to no longer carry at work period. that then means that whenever im working at all i will be forced to disarm or carry ageist the "rules". This is what i mean by opening up a can of worms.
    I don't necessarily accept your conclusion that it's too much trouble or too complicated to try to get permission for what you are doing now.

    The fact is that you are hiding something they would likely expect to know.

    So, if you want to consider the risk of above-board notification and negotiation in your decision process, you have to bump it up against the risk of discovery and rule/trust violations, which might/probably cost you your job.

    Both risks, and others, are part of the decision frame.

    Finding a, shall we say,convenient reason to not act on or consider one of those two risks is not part of good decision-making. Doing it your way, sub-optimal results are indicated. There's even a cost if you don't get caught...

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    Some states have an exemption for some firearms laws if done on private property. They are talking abour your private property. Not your employer's or client's private property.

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    virginiatuck wrote:
    Gator5713 wrote:
    IIRC from my research from a while back... A combination of Utah, Virginia, Florida, and your home state is about as close as you can get to full reciprocity (however, there are still plenty of exceptions...) For example: I was considering getting only a Virginia non-res permit as it will cover me most everywhere I go and doesn't have as many hoops to go through as Texas... Then I discovered that although Illinois recognizes Virginia's permit, it will ONLY recognize a permit from the state you currently are a resident of, therefore a non-res Virginia permit will not cover me when visiting my parents....
    What now? Illinois recognizes Virginia permits to conceal handguns?

    I think you're mistaken.
    I may very well be mistaken, but I did qualify my entire statement as going from memory! And that was not the point of the statement at all!
    The point was (for those that missed it):
    Illinois does NOT recognize ANY 'non-resident' permit! And I think that there may be a few other states with similar requirements, so, if you plan to travel much, you need a permit from your own state, as well as possibly a few 'non-res' permits...

    Either way, thanks for correcting my mis-remembered information... One of the states I was looking at is recognized by Illinois (I thought it was Virginia) but the 'resident permit' requirement makes that a moot point!

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    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    Gator5713 wrote:
    virginiatuck wrote:
    Gator5713 wrote:
    IIRC from my research from a while back... A combination of Utah, Virginia, Florida, and your home state is about as close as you can get to full reciprocity (however, there are still plenty of exceptions...) For example: I was considering getting only a Virginia non-res permit as it will cover me most everywhere I go and doesn't have as many hoops to go through as Texas... Then I discovered that although Illinois recognizes Virginia's permit, it will ONLY recognize a permit from the state you currently are a resident of, therefore a non-res Virginia permit will not cover me when visiting my parents....
    What now? Illinois recognizes Virginia permits to conceal handguns?

    I think you're mistaken.
    I may very well be mistaken, but I did qualify my entire statement as going from memory! And that was not the point of the statement at all!
    The point was (for those that missed it):
    Illinois does NOT recognize ANY 'non-resident' permit! And I think that there may be a few other states with similar requirements, so, if you plan to travel much, you need a permit from your own state, as well as possibly a few 'non-res' permits...

    Either way, thanks for correcting my mis-remembered information... One of the states I was looking at is recognized by Illinois (I thought it was Virginia) but the 'resident permit' requirement makes that a moot point!
    To my knowledge Illinois does not recognize any permit from any state, whether or not you're a resident of that state. I'm interested in your source on the Illinois law; if Illinois has recently started any kind of out-of-state permit recognition system, that would be really big news around here.

    As to the non-resident disqualification that you speak of: to my knowledge (and per handgunlaw.us), of states that have reciprocity or recognition of out-of-state permits, the only states that currently require a permit holder to be a resident of the issuing state are:
    Colorado, Florida, Maine, Michigan, New Hampshire, and South Carolina.

    P.S. I understand you were going from memory; I know my memory doesn't serve me well half the time. I'm not trying to frustrate you or personally attack you. I'm just trying to work out the facts and share what I know. Peace.

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    virginiatuck wrote:
    Gator5713 wrote:
    virginiatuck wrote:
    Gator5713 wrote:
    IIRC from my research from a while back... A combination of Utah, Virginia, Florida, and your home state is about as close as you can get to full reciprocity (however, there are still plenty of exceptions...) For example: I was considering getting only a Virginia non-res permit as it will cover me most everywhere I go and doesn't have as many hoops to go through as Texas... Then I discovered that although Illinois recognizes Virginia's permit, it will ONLY recognize a permit from the state you currently are a resident of, therefore a non-res Virginia permit will not cover me when visiting my parents....
    What now? Illinois recognizes Virginia permits to conceal handguns?

    I think you're mistaken.
    I may very well be mistaken, but I did qualify my entire statement as going from memory! And that was not the point of the statement at all!
    The point was (for those that missed it):
    Illinois does NOT recognize ANY 'non-resident' permit! And I think that there may be a few other states with similar requirements, so, if you plan to travel much, you need a permit from your own state, as well as possibly a few 'non-res' permits...

    Either way, thanks for correcting my mis-remembered information... One of the states I was looking at is recognized by Illinois (I thought it was Virginia) but the 'resident permit' requirement makes that a moot point!
    To my knowledge Illinois does not recognize any permit from any state, whether or not you're a resident of that state. I'm interested in your source on the Illinois law; if Illinois has recently started any kind of out-of-state permit recognition system, that would be really big news around here.

    As to the non-resident disqualification that you speak of: to my knowledge (and per handgunlaw.us), of states that have reciprocity or recognition of out-of-state permits, the only states that currently require a permit holder to be a resident of the issuing state are:
    Colorado, Florida, Maine, Michigan, New Hampshire, and South Carolina.

    P.S. I understand you were going from memory; I know my memory doesn't serve me well half the time. I'm not trying to frustrate you or personally attack you. I'm just trying to work out the facts and share what I know. Peace.
    Hmmm.... Tuck; you now have me scratching my head... I must be getting old now, my memory is apparently really failing me lately (seriously, over the last 2-3 days I've been called on a lot of things that I'm normally on the money on! Many of my friends are telling me that I seriously need some sleep and R&R... I'm not very familiar with either of those!)

    Looking back at the reciprocity pdf (http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USReciprocity.pdf) the only thing I can think of is that I was looking at Iowa (my parents lived there when I was doing my research, but are now back to IL where they were before...) and that I read/remembered the notes at the bottom backwards, or that I got info overload at the time
    I had looked at WAY too much information at the time....

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