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Thread: about carrying a 3rd backup gun

  1. #1
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    i had an argument with a friend about using the same ammo for all 3 guns. his idea was that it would save money in the long run (with having to buy ammo that goes with either the primary or secondary weapon) but i believe it's a major safety issue.

    hypothetically..if my primary is .45, secondary weapon is .40 and third weapon uses .40..there is a chance a suspect in a physical struggle could get my secondary weapon AND have an extra clip of ammunition (from the 3rd backup if he gets that too). but if my 3rd weapon uses 9mm, 38+P or .357 then the suspect wouldn't be able to load the primary or secondary if he wrestled it away from me.

    Has anyone else thought about this before? when you carry two (or three) weapons..do you use the same ammo or different for each gun?

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    I can't help but think that if a bad guy manages to get any of my BUGs and then has the time to reload my empty primary gun he also grabbed... and I didn't/couldn't do anything about all that I would instantly perform the "gymnastic self defense technique" of....

    kissing my arse goodbye.

    :what:
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Bikenut wrote:
    I can't help but think that if a bad guy manages to get any of my BUGs and then has the time to reload my empty primary gun he also grabbed... and I didn't/couldn't do anything about all that I would instantly perform the "gymnastic self defense technique" of....

    kissing my arse goodbye.

    :what:
    +1000

    Anyone who gets a first , and then a second sefldefense gun taken from his personin a physical altercation needs to be living is a bullet proof glass bubble in the first place. That way when you do recognize the situation that you might need to use one in a threat, you'll only harm yourself by firing said firearm/firearms inside your own little world.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Carnivore wrote:
    Bikenut wrote:
    I can't help but think that if a bad guy manages to get any of my BUGs and then has the time to reload my empty primary gun he also grabbed... and I didn't/couldn't do anything about all that I would instantly perform the "gymnastic self defense technique" of....

    kissing my arse goodbye.

    :what:
    +1000

    Anyone who gets a first , and then a second sefldefense gun taken from his personin a physical altercation needs to be living is a bullet proof glass bubble in the first place. That way when you do recognize the situation that you might need to use one in a threat, you'll only harm yourself by firing said firearm/firearms inside your own little world.
    LoL!
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    LTTTI wrote:
    i had an argument with a friend about using the same ammo for all 3 guns. his idea was that it would save money in the long run (with having to buy ammo that goes with either the primary or secondary weapon) but i believe it's a major safety issue.

    hypothetically..if my primary is .45, secondary weapon is .40 and third weapon uses .40..there is a chance a suspect in a physical struggle could get my secondary weapon AND have an extra clip of ammunition (from the 3rd backup if he gets that too). but if my 3rd weapon uses 9mm, 38+P or .357 then the suspect wouldn't be able to load the primary or secondary if he wrestled it away from me.

    Has anyone else thought about this before? when you carry two (or three) weapons..do you use the same ammo or different for each gun?
    Unlikely. To the point of being neglible.

    Maybe think of some more pressiong issues. When's the last time you were at the range?

  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    I may carry a backup firearm, but at this time, I only carry one.

    Oh, and...




    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    LTTTI wrote:
    i had an argument with a friend about using the same ammo for all 3 guns.
    I rarelycarry 3 guns but I do carry two most of the time and they are both 45acp. I like the thought of being able to share ammo even though the need is probably low. It also makes it simple when I stock ammo.

    I would think that anyone that can take away one or both of your guns won't need to reload. In my opinion, one or both of you will be dead before a reload is needed.

    I would also think that carrying different ammo is ok if all you have are 3 different caliber guns. Also it would be better to have larger calibers like1-45acp and 2-25acp guns rather than 3-25acp guns. :-)

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    thats what im figuring..which is why my argument was focusing around the suspect not being able to reload a disarmed primary or secondary weapon with the backup clips from the 3rd. though based on personal preference i dont trust the 25acp caliber

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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    IF YOU THINK YOU NEED TO CARRY THREE HANDGUNS, YOU SHOULD PROBABLY BE CARRYING A RIFLE!



    JUST A THOUGHT BASED ON 30+YEARS OF SPECIAL FORCES AND LAW ENFORCEMENT EXPERIENCE....
    Bitka Sve Rešava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

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    Geez, the most I carry is two, a 9mm and a .380. I don't see a need for more than two.

    Though one time I did have 3 firearms on my person, two of which were concealed. Won't do it again. That much stuff in my waistband made walking & sitting uncomfortable.

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    ODA 226 wrote:
    IF YOU THINK YOU NEED TO CARRY THREE HANDGUNS, YOU SHOULD PROBABLY BE CARRYING A RIFLE!



    JUST A THOUGHT BASED ON 30+YEARS OF SPECIAL FORCES AND LAW ENFORCEMENT EXPERIENCE....
    Perhaps there are other factors to consider... such as accessibility while seated within the confines of a vehicle... and upping the round count without having to take the chance of screwing up a mag change.... oh... and how many rounds did you have with you in LE?

    Some folks carefully consider what their threat risk level is and base their decisions (all factors being considered) on how best to counter that threat level.

    Just a thought based upon my personal life.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  12. #12
    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    Bikenut wrote:
    ODA 226 wrote:
    IF YOU THINK YOU NEED TO CARRY THREE HANDGUNS, YOU SHOULD PROBABLY BE CARRYING A RIFLE!



    JUST A THOUGHT BASED ON 30+YEARS OF SPECIAL FORCES AND LAW ENFORCEMENT EXPERIENCE....
    oh... and how many rounds did you have with you in LE?
    25...I carry 24 now.

    Some folks carefully consider what their threat risk level is and base their decisions (all factors being considered) on how best to counter that threat level.
    And some people have no clue how to make an accurate risk assessment....

    Just a thought based upon my personal life.
    I can respect that!
    Bitka Sve Rešava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    But, what about your fourth backup gun? It should be an odd calibre, just incase the BG brought alonghis own supply of common rounds.

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Gonna tape an extra trauma plate to your chest there guy?



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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Can it take MULTIPLE shots from a .338 Lapua? You know, while your partner sets up to take the shot.

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    i have a .25 auto pocket pistol and i agree it probably has to be one of the most anemic of a self defense round, i don' t doubt that i would get the job done with the right ammo, i think i would be better off with a pocket pistol in .22LR though than the .25 in ether one a good self defense round is mandatory though as well as even more important is shot placement. I almost would like to start reloading my own 25auto and load it with the max powder charge for the casing. i don't think they could try to claim excessive force by an super hot reload in .25 lol. although i don't think carrying the same or multiple calibers really makes a difference i think loading your primary and backup guns with different ammo is not a bad idea though, such a heavy penetrating ammo for someone wearing heavy clothing in a open area and a ligher penitrating load to prevent over penitration in an more crouded enviroment. this can be a little more easly accived by using different calibers but can also be done by using differnt ammo of the same caliber.

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    ODA 226 wrote:
    Bikenut wrote:
    ODA 226 wrote:
    IF YOU THINK YOU NEED TO CARRY THREE HANDGUNS, YOU SHOULD PROBABLY BE CARRYING A RIFLE!

    If, after careful consideration of all factors, I decided a rifle/shotgun was needed........ I'd have at least one with me.

    JUST A THOUGHT BASED ON 30+YEARS OF SPECIAL FORCES AND LAW ENFORCEMENT EXPERIENCE....
    oh... and how many rounds did you have with you in LE?
    25...I carry 24 now.

    And I have a round count of................. 26.

    Some folks carefully consider what their threat risk level is and base their decisions (all factors being considered) on how best to counter that threat level.
    And some people have no clue how to make an accurate risk assessment....

    I agree. But that not only applies to folks who carry what others think is a large capacity but also when a person thinks their 5 shot snub will do because they could never ever possibly find themselves in a 20 shot situation.

    Just a thought based upon my personal life.
    I can respect that!

    The following isn't directed at you Sir... but is a general comment.

    Actually, if folks were honest, they would understand that reasonable people make reasonable decisions according to the factors operative in their personal lives... and refrain from judging others decisions since not everyone has the same things going on in their lives.

    So... how many guns do I carry? As many as I think I have a high possibility/probability (most important word being "probability" not "possibility") of needing since I already know that under the adrenaline stress of a real life or death situation a perfect mag change/clear a malfunction cannot be depended upon. Nor can I depend on my strong hand being free, nor is a hip carried gun easily accessed when sitting in a little car, nor do I have the faintest clue how many rounds will be needed to successfully survive the "probable"/possible situations I may face that day.

    A sidebar story:
    I was stopped for speeding (20mph over... I wasn't paying attention to the speedo and admitted it) one dark and gloomy 4am in a nice part of town on my way to a very bad part of town while working. When I told the officer how many guns were with me he called for back up. Back up arrived, my guns were checked for legality, an interesting discussion was had about my CZ52, and I was sent on my way with a warning to slow down... and to be careful. Not once was a question raised concerning the number of guns. And no, I'm not telling.... but I knew where I was going and what I might have to respond to.

    I firmly believe that folks who decide to carry guns for defense of self/possibly others should spend the money for training, training DVD's, spend time on the 'net looking up self defense techniques, or all three, and praticing... practicing... PRACTICING... everything from learning what "awareness" really means, to decision making under stress, to using range time to learn how to use a gun to save themselves.

    The good thing is.... judging from the majority of posts most folks who frequent this site actually are reasonable people. (I'm not counting the humorous posts that are actually quite funny!)

    Ok... cue HankT..........
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Ezrider wrote:
    i have a .25 auto pocket pistol and i agree it probably has to be one of the most anemic of a self defense round, i don' t doubt that i would get the job done with the right ammo, i think i would be better off with a pocket pistol in .22LR though than the .25 in ether one a good self defense round is mandatory though as well as even more important is shot placement. I almost would like to start reloading my own 25auto and load it with the max powder charge for the casing. i don't think they could try to claim excessive force by an super hot reload in .25 lol. although i don't think carrying the same or multiple calibers really makes a difference i think loading your primary and backup guns with different ammo is not a bad idea though, such a heavy penetrating ammo for someone wearing heavy clothing in a open area and a ligher penitrating load to prevent over penitration in an more crouded enviroment. this can be a little more easly accived by using different calibers but can also be done by using differnt ammo of the same caliber.
    Nearly all self defense handgun ammo of all calibers is engineered to achieve the same optimum penetration of somewhere around 14 to 18 inches. Doesn't matter what the caliber... the engineers played with bullet construction/powder charges to achieve that because that is what works the best to stop an attacker.

    Bullet ballistics figures and photos can be found on the 'net.

    Hence... worrying about grabbing the right gun for the right circumstances is pointless.... especially since, when in fear of our lives, whichever gun comes to hand is the one we will use.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  19. #19
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    I'm pretty secure in carrying my USP 45 OC or CC. If I feel I'm going into a "higher threat situation", I may carry 1 or 2 extra magazines to have a total of 24 or 36 rounds...

    I'm pretty confident in my abilities and believe 12 rounds should take care of all problems excepta well-organized Zombie Invasion...
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    MyTitsItch wrote:

    Do you wear a helmet when you drive?
    I do not, nor do I wear a seatbelt. I do wear a cup when I play hockey though.

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    darthmord wrote:
    Though one time I did have 3 firearms on my person, two of which were concealed. Won't do it again. That much stuff in my waistband made walking & sitting uncomfortable.
    i carry all 3 firearms (.45, .40, and 9mm currently) on my belt its not a problem. the clips dont fit the belt, so for about 2 months now ive been keeping them either in my front pockets (if im wearing shorts) or strapped to my ankles (if jeans)

    as for the other responses i dont take my personal defense lightly and as i am a law abiding citizen to His country i can carry what i feel is necessary to defend myself in any situation..and ive made sure that if SHTF i am prepared for it.

    i already know mentally if that im attacked by multiple suspects to pull the gun designed for that situation (less recoil and larger clip) versus one suspect (more recoil and smaller clip). its not like im clueless, i have read many articles on self defense and i have a collection of VHS tapes with real scenarios


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    Bikenut wrote:
    Ezrider wrote:
    i have a .25 auto pocket pistol and i agree it probably has to be one of the most anemic of a self defense round, i don' t doubt that i would get the job done with the right ammo, i think i would be better off with a pocket pistol in .22LR though than the .25 in ether one a good self defense round is mandatory though as well as even more important is shot placement. I almost would like to start reloading my own 25auto and load it with the max powder charge for the casing. i don't think they could try to claim excessive force by an super hot reload in .25 lol. although i don't think carrying the same or multiple calibers really makes a difference i think loading your primary and backup guns with different ammo is not a bad idea though, such a heavy penetrating ammo for someone wearing heavy clothing in a open area and a ligher penitrating load to prevent over penitration in an more crouded enviroment. this can be a little more easly accived by using different calibers but can also be done by using differnt ammo of the same caliber.
    Nearly all self defense handgun ammo of all calibers is engineered to achieve the same optimum penetration of somewhere around 14 to 18 inches. Doesn't matter what the caliber... the engineers played with bullet construction/powder charges to achieve that because that is what works the best to stop an attacker.

    Bullet ballistics figures and photos can be found on the 'net.

    Hence... worrying about grabbing the right gun for the right circumstances is pointless.... especially since, when in fear of our lives, whichever gun comes to hand is the one we will use.
    well i have just started looking into all the different self defense ammo and a lot of them post feet per second and bullet drop and statistics like that. i buy a box of self defense round and it lasts me a long time i unload the sd rounds when going to the range and re load them when coming home. then about every 3 months rotate those rounds into my practice ammo and reload with fresh sd ammo. to get back to my point im just now starting to look into what self defense ammo is better as im going to be needing to buy some more soon. if you could post some info on balistics testing besides just feet per second. i almost wish i knew where to get some balistics jell and start trying out differnt ammo for myself to see how the points expand and penitration and so fourth, however one can only assume an .44magnum +p load is going to penitrate more than an .25apc +p load becouse of the amount of powder load and mass flying. also if there is so little differance in ammo as you say they are all optimized for the same penitration and to preform equaly regardliss of caliber then why is there so much preferance on certain caliber of guns.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Ezrider wrote:
    well i have just started looking into all the different self defense ammo and a lot of them post feet per second and bullet drop and statistics like that. i buy a box of self defense round and it lasts me a long time i unload the sd rounds when going to the range and re load them when coming home. then about every 3 months rotate those rounds into my practice ammo and reload with fresh sd ammo. to get back to my point im just now starting to look into what self defense ammo is better as im going to be needing to buy some more soon. if you could post some info on balistics testing besides just feet per second. i almost wish i knew where to get some balistics jell and start trying out differnt ammo for myself to see how the points expand and penitration and so fourth, however one can only assume an .44magnum +p load is going to penitrate more than an .25apc +p load becouse of the amount of powder load and mass flying. also if there is so little differance in ammo as you say they are all optimized for the same penitration and to preform equaly regardliss of caliber then why is there so much preferance on certain caliber of guns.
    This will get you started on ballistics even though the medium is water and not ballistic gel:

    http://stevespages.com/page8f.htm

    As you will notice... some calibers bullets expand more making a bigger hole.

    And.. the difference between the final expansion size between some caliber bullets isn't really that much.

    So... most of the time folks choose the largest caliber hoping for the largest expanded bullet in a gun that they can control the easiest helping them be the most accurate.

    And there are a host of reasons for smaller calibers since a small gun that only holds 1 round of a large caliber can hold 5 rounds of a smaller caliber allowing more shots.....

    And you will notice that caliber penetration expectations don't match what the actual performance is.

    However... most modern self defense ammunition of all calibers are engineered on purpose to penetrate around 14 to around 18 inches because that range of penetration is what works best. It allows enough penetration to reach vitals from different angles to do damage to stop the attack while lessening the possibility of over penetration.

    May I suggest searching the 'net for "ballistic gel" or "bullet expansion" and/or any variation of that theme? It will take time to find stuff that will answer your specific questions but the info is out there.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  24. #24
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    WTH happened to the itchytits posts? They were funny if mean spirited.

    Lemme just say my jokes were not meant to offend. Carry as many as you like. Doesn't bother me.

    I personally like to carry 2 spare mags for my XD9. That gives me just about 50 rounds.

    Will I need all of them? I hope not. But I will have them.

    Oh, and check out www.brassfetcher.com

    Good info there.

  25. #25
    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    thx997303 wrote:
    Can it take MULTIPLE shots from a .338 Lapua? You know, while your partner sets up to take the shot.
    Yeah, I was thinking thatthe OP wasGECKO.45 too!
    Bitka Sve Rešava!
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