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Thread: Greenfield Common Council Meeting 10/06/09 7:00pm

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    Regular Member ROOK_WI's Avatar
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    I will be speaking during citizen commentary about 10.01 carry of firearms and 10.16 carry of firearms in parks being preempted by Wis Stat,66.0409

    I thought I'd look into their municial ordinances after they passed the 4-1 vote adopting the WI state statutes last month & Milwaukee county park ordinances a few months ago, some interesting finds in there.

    I have books/info bound up for everyone on council, so that they can have instant access to everything during my commentary. I want them to remove those laws from the books just as fast as they decided to 'adopt' the state statues. I'm using the city of De Pere as a reference, as they amended their own codes in August.

    I'm giving everyone a heads up of whatI am doing. if you want to attend, great. If you are busy or the drive is too far, have to work early,I get that, but if you have nothing better to do Tuesday evening - get out of the house and stop in. All meetings are held at Greenfield City Hall, 7325 W. Forest Home Ave.

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    Regular Member ROOK_WI's Avatar
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    You are misreading, I am bringing it to their attention. Nothing about a hearing or discussion at all, just "Citizen Commentary". I talk, whether they listen is anybodys guess right now.

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    OOOOOOOOOOOOO duh lol sounds good.

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    Regular Member ROOK_WI's Avatar
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    Bump to top for tomorrow's meeting. Please come if you can.

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    Regular Member Brad_Krause's Avatar
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    Greenfield Gun Ban - 7:00 PM Tuesday 10/06

    On June 15 a city-wide firearms ban was defeated in Greenfield, and the next day the same happened in South Milwaukee.

    A few weeks later Greenfield Alderperson Tom Pietrowski assured me the matter was dead. Alderperson Linda Lubotsky said she removed the item from the agenda and "it will not be discussed at the next legislative meeting."

    Instead, Greenfield city council expanded their firearms prohibition to include all city parks, parklands, parkways, trail connections, and nature areas. They then adopted state statutes limiting firearms use.

    The next city council meeting is Tuesday, October 6 at 7:00 PM.

    Meetings are held at
    GREENFIELD CITY HALL
    7325 WEST FOREST HOME AVENUE
    ROOM 100
    7:00 PM TUESDAY OCTOBER 6



    Notes:
    Greenfield's minutes from 6/15 and 8/17:
    http://tinyurl.com/greenfield-wi-minutes


    Greenfield 8/17 Item 4. Amend Municipal Code Chapter 10.16 to include: "These ordinances and defining rules and regulations shall also be applicable to all city parks, parklands, parkways, trail connections and nature areas."

    Ald. Lubotsky moved, Ald. Pietrowski seconded
    adopting the amendment. Motion carried unanimously.

    Greenfield Municipal Code 10.01 - Weapons.
    http://tinyurl.com/greenfield-wi-code-weapons
    (1) Discharging and carrying of firearms and guns prohibited. (Cr. #1412) No person, except a sheriff, constable, police officer or their deputies, shall fire or discharge any firearm, rifle, spring or air gun within the City or have any firearm, rifle, spring or air gun in his possession or under his control, unless it is unloaded and knocked down or enclosed within a carrying case or other suitable container, provided the City Council may permit the maintenance and use of supervised rifle or pistol ranges or shooting galleries. This subsection shall prohibit hunting within the City.
    These ordinances and defining rules and regulations shall also be applicable to all city parks, parklands, parkways, trail connections and nature areas.

    Wisconsin Statutes on-line: 66.0409 Local regulation of firearms.
    http://tinyurl.com/wi-stat-66-0409
    (2) Except as provided in subs. (3) and (4), no political subdivision may enact an ordinance or adopt a resolution that regulates the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components, unless the ordinance or resolution is the same as or similar to, and no more stringent than, a state statute.






    Greenfield 8/17 Item 5. Amend Municipal Code Chapter 10 to include the following state statutes regarding firearms: 167.31; 941.235; 941.237; 941.29; 948.60; & 948.605.

    Ald. Lubotsky moved, Ald. Akers seconded adopting the amendment. Motion carried with Ald. Lubotsky & Akers voting in favor; Ald. Pietrowski opposed.

    Greenfield Municipal Code
    http://tinyurl.com/greenfield-wi-code
    10.29.29--10.961.575

    Wisconsin Statutes on-line:
    http://www.legis.state.wi.us/rsb/stats.html
    167.31 Firearms in vehicles ban.
    941.235 Firearms in public buildings ban.
    941.237 Firearms in bars and other ban.
    941.29 Firearms possession by ex-felons and others ban.
    948.60 Firearms possession by a person under 18 ban.
    948.605 School "zone" ban.




    Greenfield Municipal Code
    http://tinyurl.com/greenfield-wi-code
    10.16 Adoption of Milwaukee County parks and parkways ordinance.

    47.05 Use of firearms, fireworks; hunting with bow and arrow and trapping; throwing of missiles; making of fires; deposit or breakage of tin cans, bottles and glassware, prohibited.
    (1) Use of firearms and fireworks; hunting with bow and arrow; trapping. No person shall carry, fire or discharge any gun, pistol or firearm, nor any rocket, torpedo or other fireworks of any description, nor shall any person engage in trapping within any park or parkway without a written permit of the department of parks, recreation and culture; nor shall any person hunt with bow and arrow within any park or parkway. No person shall carry, fire or discharge any gun, pistol or firearm, nor any rocket, torpedo or other fireworks of any description upon any premises owed or leased by Milwaukee County which is not part of the county parks and parkways. The word "gun" shall include airgun.







    Greenfield Mayor and City Council
    http://tinyurl.com/wi-council
    E-mail addresses and other details are available at the above link.

    Mayor Michael J. Neitzke
    Office: (414) 329-5200

    Alderperson Linda Lubotsky
    Office: (414) 329-5201

    Alderperson Tom Pietrowski
    Office: (414) 329-5202

    Alderperson Karl Kastner
    Office: (414) 427-1599

    Alderperson Pam Akers
    Office: (414) 329-5204

    Alderperson Shirley Saryan
    Office: (414) 329-5203
    Last edited by Brad_Krause; 08-21-2010 at 03:44 PM.

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    Since they decided toregulate the discharge of firearms within city limits (which they have legal authority to do) and it is written in the sameordinance that prohibits possession (preempted by state law) does that make the entire ordinance unlawful and/or unenforceable as written?

    Or would the possession clause just be considered unconstitutional? but the discharge prohibition still stand?



    In my reading and understandingof their newly enacted ordinance, they are trying to prohibit any possession on town property. Am I correct?

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    I-ANAL

    Severability is a question for attorneys to address.

    Severability clauses are often added to ordinances and legislation as boilerplate without consideration of the effect on the document as a whole.

    The stuff posted above makes no effort to separate clauses.

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    Any word on what happened at the meeting last night??????????

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    Regular Member Brad_Krause's Avatar
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    T
    here was a good turnout and many people voiced excellent reasons why the ordinances are bad for Greenfield.

    Greenfield's argument is that by using the law to disarm criminals, everyone is safe. It is a glaringly false argument: criminals commit the same crimes with the same tools, but victims are denied the ability to defend themselves.

    After numerous requests for the city to reconsider, the city council moved for the ordinances to return to the legislative committee.

    Credit goes to Alderperson Linda Lubotsky who strongly pushed for review, Mayor Michael Neitzke for being concerned for citizens welfare, Alderperson Tom Pietrowski for understanding the law, the entire Greenfield City Council for their participation, and mostly to the individuals who stood in front of the city council.

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    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Good news. Any idea how many pro-people were at the meeting? Any people from Greenfield this time? Well, good job.

    But, will Greenfield stay down now? Or are we just waiting for the next batch of BS laws? Tom is a gun rights (or just rights) supporter, and his votes have shown this for some time. Linda has learned a lot about our gun rights, and I do think she is starting to come around. As far as I can see, the rest are sheep, and will do what they are told...

    Well, again good job Greenfield, keep it up.

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    Regular Member ROOK_WI's Avatar
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    There were sevenmaybe eight, majorityof us spoke. I lived in Greenfield for a long time before moving away. I know that there was one Greenfield resident in attendance with us. I will be watching the legislative agenda to see when they meetto discuss10.01 and 10.16.I was quite pleased with the council andoverall outcome of Tuesday's meeting.

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    If I may suggest, someone should make a map of Greenfield and highlight all of the parks within the city. Since there is more than likely no "State" park within the city of Greenfield, maybe the city council will then understand just how much more stringent their ordinance would be.

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    Regular Member ROOK_WI's Avatar
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    That was brought to their attention by myself and others.

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    Regular Member ROOK_WI's Avatar
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    From JSOnline:

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/63685207.html

    Greenfield to review gun restrictions
    By Tom Kertscher of the Journal Sentinel


    Posted: Oct. 7, 2009

    Greenfield — At the request of gun-rights advocates, the Common Council will review recent ordinance changes it made restricting the carrying of firearms in the city.

    The advocates spoke Tuesday to the council and Ald. Linda Lubotsky moved to refer the matter to the council's Legislative Committee for possible changes. She said Wednesday she expects the restrictions to stay in place but that changes in the language of the ordinance would ensure that the city doesn't violate any constitutional rights.

    Greenfield adopted state restrictions on carrying firearms, such as the ban on carrying guns within 1,000 feet of a school, and enabled police to write tickets for those violations if no criminal charges are filed.

    Greenfield also banned the open carry of guns in parks.

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    Here is where they are getting their brilliant ideas from:

    http://www.lwm-info.org/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={E9172683-456E-431D-9581-FD02E1529CCE}&DE={0C70D78E-32FA-4300-8172-D8169534CA37}

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    Regular Member ROOK_WI's Avatar
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    A late morning article was posted on jsonline:

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/63767992.html

    Group adds guidance on local gun ordinances
    By Tom Kertscher of the Journal Sentinel


    Posted: Oct. 8, 2009 11:38 a.m.

    The attorney for the League of Wisconsin Municipalities says that although state law restricts the ability of local governments to regulate firearms, municipalities can adopt ordinances that are "the same as or similar to, and no more stringent than" state statutes.

    Claire Silverman'sarticleis in the October edition of The Municipality publication.

    Greenfield and other local governments have recently adopted ordinances that, for example, allow police to write tickets to gun carriers who violate state law on restricting firearms.

    At the request of gun rights activists, the Greenfield Common Council this week agreed to review the city's ordinances. The council's Legislative Committee will begin the review. The committee next meets Oct. 19, though no agenda has yet been set.

    Wisconsin Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen issued a memorandum to prosecutors in April saying that the mere act of having a gun does not warrant a charge of disorderly conduct, a position that pro-gun advocates have argued in several recent legal cases.

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    ROOK_WI wrote:
    SNIP:
    Greenfield and other local governments have recently adopted ordinances that, for example, allow police to write tickets to gun carriers who violate state law on restricting firearms.
    I didn't know that there was a state lawagainst restricting firearms. We should start filing criminal complaints against cities that restrict our RKBA.
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 - "A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but the fool's heart to the left."

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    Brad_Krause wrote:
    Greenfield's argument is that by using the law to disarm criminals, everyone is safe.
    I wish more lawmakers would come to realize how stupid this argument sounds.



    Anyway, I was thinking about going to Konkel Park and watching my nephew play some soccer. I might happen to be carrying. The park isn't listed on the Milwaukee County Parks website, so I can only guess it's a "city" park. Any thoughts? Should I perhaps not cause a stir?

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    Regular Member ROOK_WI's Avatar
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    Konkel borders Edgewood grade school to the east & I am not sure how far 1000' feet reaches fromthe High school to the west. it might be one of those'sliver section' of parks.

    Police station is right across the street from the park (north).



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