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Thread: Definition of "loaded"?

  1. #1
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    Hey..... new guy here....

    Just got my first pistol and am planning on mostly OC, thanks to this and NWCDL forums. I am still waiting on my CPL, so for the time being I will be exclusively OC. My question is, while in the truck, what is the definition of unloaded? No round in the chamber? No clip in the gun? How far does the clip have to be from my gun? Can it just be out sitting next to it in the glove box or what?
    I am the person responsible for myself, my wife and my son. I take that VERY seriously.

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    Campaign Veteran ak56's Avatar
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    tyguy808 wrote:
    Hey..... new guy here....

    Just got my first pistol and am planning on mostly OC, thanks to this and NWCDL forums. I am still waiting on my CPL, so for the time being I will be exclusively OC. My question is, while in the truck, what is the definition of unloaded? No round in the chamber? No clip in the gun? How far does the clip have to be from my gun? Can it just be out sitting next to it in the glove box or what?
    No round in the chamber, no clip/magazine in the firearm, you're good to go.


    RCW 9.41.010
    Terms defined.

    (9) "Loaded" means:

    (a) There is a cartridge in the chamber of the firearm;

    (b) Cartridges are in a clip that is locked in place in the firearm;

    (c) There is a cartridge in the cylinder of the firearm, if the firearm is a revolver;

    (d) There is a cartridge in the tube or magazine that is inserted in the action; or

    (e) There is a ball in the barrel and the firearm is capped or primed if the firearm is a muzzle loader.
    No right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded, by the common law than the right of every individual to the possession and control of his own person, free from all restraint or interference of others, unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law. Union Pacific Rail Co. vs Botsford as quoted in Terry v Ohio.


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    Thanks for the quick response.

    I kinda thought that was the technical definition, just was not too sure.
    I am the person responsible for myself, my wife and my son. I take that VERY seriously.

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    ak56 wrote:
    tyguy808 wrote:
    Hey..... new guy here....

    Just got my first pistol and am planning on mostly OC, thanks to this and NWCDL forums. I am still waiting on my CPL, so for the time being I will be exclusively OC. My question is, while in the truck, what is the definition of unloaded? No round in the chamber? No clip in the gun? How far does the clip have to be from my gun? Can it just be out sitting next to it in the glove box or what?
    No round in the chamber, no clip/magazine in the firearm, you're good to go.


    RCW 9.41.010
    Terms defined.*

    **** (9) "Loaded" means:

    **** (a) There is a cartridge in the chamber of the firearm;

    **** (b) Cartridges are in a clip that is locked in place in the firearm;

    **** (c) There is a cartridge in the cylinder of the firearm, if the firearm is a revolver;

    **** (d) There is a cartridge in the tube or magazine that is inserted in the action; or

    **** (e) There is a ball in the barrel and the firearm is capped or primed if the firearm is a muzzle loader.

    Correction, no round in the chamber, no loaded magazine seated.
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

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    Campaign Veteran ak56's Avatar
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    TechnoWeenie wrote:
    ak56 wrote:
    tyguy808 wrote:
    Hey..... new guy here....

    Just got my first pistol and am planning on mostly OC, thanks to this and NWCDL forums. I am still waiting on my CPL, so for the time being I will be exclusively OC. My question is, while in the truck, what is the definition of unloaded? No round in the chamber? No clip in the gun? How far does the clip have to be from my gun? Can it just be out sitting next to it in the glove box or what?
    No round in the chamber, no clip/magazine in the firearm, you're good to go.


    RCW 9.41.010
    Terms defined.

    (9) "Loaded" means:

    (a) There is a cartridge in the chamber of the firearm;

    (b) Cartridges are in a clip that is locked in place in the firearm;

    (c) There is a cartridge in the cylinder of the firearm, if the firearm is a revolver;

    (d) There is a cartridge in the tube or magazine that is inserted in the action; or

    (e) There is a ball in the barrel and the firearm is capped or primed if the firearm is a muzzle loader.

    Correction, no round in the chamber, no loaded magazine seated.
    You are correct.
    No right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded, by the common law than the right of every individual to the possession and control of his own person, free from all restraint or interference of others, unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law. Union Pacific Rail Co. vs Botsford as quoted in Terry v Ohio.


    Talk to your cats about catnip - before it's too late.

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    If a magazine is inserted, however slight, the firearm is loaded under state statute.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    joeroket wrote:
    If a magazine is inserted, however slight, the firearm is loaded under state statute.
    The magazine must be LOADED....

    An EMPTY magazine can be inserted, a loaded one cannot.

    RCW 9.41.010
    Terms defined.

    (9) "Loaded" means:

    (a) There is a cartridge in the chamber of the firearm;

    (b) Cartridges are in a clip that is locked in place in the firearm;

    (c) There is a cartridge in the cylinder of the firearm, if the firearm is a revolver;

    (d) There is a cartridge in the tube or magazine that is inserted in the action; or

    (e) There is a ball in the barrel and the firearm is capped or primed if the firearm is a muzzle loader
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    joeroket wrote:
    If a magazine is inserted, however slight, the firearm is loaded under state statute.
    The problem with an unloaded magazine in a firearm is that there is no way to tell if it is "loaded" just by looking at it. For example, that AR-15 in the back seat, with an empty magazine inserted, looks just like one with a fully loaded magazine inserted. No way for the LEO that stopped you to tell without inspecting it himself. Can you visualize how this "Stop" might play out?
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Regular Member Machoduck's Avatar
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    That's what trunks are for. Or blankets, cases, boxes, or whatever your pleasure is, but hide your business from prying eyes.

    MD

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    Seems like I stirred a bit of controversy here..... When in a car with no CPL you must have the weapon stored out of sight anyways (right?) and unloaded. So LEO should never see it anyhow. If you're keeping your AK in the back seat uncovered, seems like you're just asking to get checked out anyhow.
    I am the person responsible for myself, my wife and my son. I take that VERY seriously.

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    amlevin wrote:
    joeroket wrote:
    If a magazine is inserted, however slight, the firearm is loaded under state statute.
    The problem with an unloaded magazine in a firearm is that there is no way to tell if it is "loaded" just by looking at it. For example, that AR-15 in the back seat, with an empty magazine inserted, looks just like one with a fully loaded magazine inserted. No way for the LEO that stopped you to tell without inspecting it himself. Can you visualize how this "Stop" might play out?
    While it may be a problem, it isn't a legal concern. It may be enough for RAS or PC to detain and investigate, but it isn't going to get you a cite.

    As to how the stop might "play out", that depends more on how a person responds and reacts to the officer's commands than it does to the apparently loaded AR in the back seat.

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    911Boss wrote:

    As to how the stop might "play out", that depends more on how a person responds and reacts to the officer's commands than it does to the apparently loaded AR in the back seat.
    I added that comment because it appears that many on this Forum tend to be confrontational. About 30 years ago I used to ride extensively in a patrol car in So Snohomish County. Saw it every night I was out back then and it appears it hasn't changed much.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    This brings up a question. I have my CPL and I always have a loaded weapon in the car. Usually it is on my side or in the glove box. What do you do if it is in the glove box with your registration. Obviously you would want to inform the officer that you have the weapon there, but what are his limitations if you have your CPL and what can he do at that point? Disarm you/remove the weapon and inspect it?

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    malichite wrote:
    This brings up a question.* I have my CPL and I always have a loaded weapon in the car.* Usually it is on my side or in the glove box.* What do you do if it is in the glove box with your registration.* Obviously you would want to inform the officer that you have the weapon there, but what are his limitations if you have your CPL and what can he do at that point?* Disarm you/remove the weapon and inspect it?
    If the firearm is in the same place as my registration or insurance card I will always notify them that my (insert documentation here) is in my (insert location here) and I have a firearm in the same location.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    TechnoWeenie wrote:
    joeroket wrote:
    If a magazine is inserted, however slight, the firearm is loaded under state statute.
    The magazine must be LOADED....

    An EMPTY magazine can be inserted, a loaded one cannot.

    RCW 9.41.010
    Terms defined.

    (9) "Loaded" means:

    (a) There is a cartridge in the chamber of the firearm;

    (b) Cartridges are in a clip that is locked in place in the firearm;

    (c) There is a cartridge in the cylinder of the firearm, if the firearm is a revolver;

    (d) There is a cartridge in the tube or magazine that is inserted in the action; or

    (e) There is a ball in the barrel and the firearm is capped or primed if the firearm is a muzzle loader
    Yes. Go back and read your post. You said no loaded magazine that is seated. This is wrong. A loaded magazine that is in inserted however slight, correctly or incorrectly, is loaded.
    Hell you could have one dud cartridge in a magazine that has been pounded into the magwell upside down and backwards only 1/16th of an inch and it is considered loaded.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    joeroket wrote:
    malichite wrote:
    This brings up a question. I have my CPL and I always have a loaded weapon in the car. Usually it is on my side or in the glove box. What do you do if it is in the glove box with your registration. Obviously you would want to inform the officer that you have the weapon there, but what are his limitations if you have your CPL and what can he do at that point? Disarm you/remove the weapon and inspect it?
    If the firearm is in the same place as my registration or insurance card I will always notify them that my (insert documentation here) is in my (insert location here) and I have a firearm in the same location.
    if youre being pulled over by LEO, get your documents out of the proximity of your gun before the cop gets to the car, put them on the dashboard.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

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    I guess I do not understand why anyone would have (want) their firearm in the same place as their papers. My papers are always in the glove box and if the weapon is not on my person its in the console. Wife, kids and friends have all been instructed to never open the console during a stop. Before I had a car with a console I had a clip on the visor holder for my papers.

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    Regular Member Machoduck's Avatar
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    RCW 9.41.010 (9) is a study in ambiguity. Does "clip" mean clip or is it standard erroneous nomenclature for magazine? Does "in" mean all the way in and latched? Maybe it means substantially into the grip but not latched. Maybe in means what Joe says - even a tiny bit in.

    I suspect that since they have the separate terms clip and magazine that "clip" means clip and they're referring to a stripper clip a la a Garand being in place whereby shoving down on the cartridges would load the rifle (watch the thumb!) However, my guess is worth what you paid for it.

    I won't even hazard a guess as to what "in" means exactly (and no Bill Clinton jokes if you please.) It makes sense to use use Joe's definition; we have enough trouble with certain people when there's no ambiguity.

    MD

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    Orphan wrote:
    I guess I do not understand why anyone would have (want) their firearm in the same place as their papers. My papers are always in the glove box and if the weapon is not on my person its in the console.
    It depends how you organize items in your vehicle. If the only compartment that locks inside your vehicle is your glove box, and that's also the best place to keep your papers because you keep different items in your center console, then sometimes they will need to share a space for short periods of time.

    I'm not saying it's ideal, but I've definitely returned to my vehicle and started driving without returning my pistol to my body for whatever reason. If I were to be stopped, I think handing DL on top of CPL will start things off in the right direction.

  20. #20
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    I kinda figure if there's a magazine in the weapon, what's the point of it not having rounds in it? Like putting an empty box in your truck when you're moving.
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

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    Regular Member Machoduck's Avatar
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    Orphan, I'm with you in not wanting a pistol near my papers, I implement things differently (gun in shoulder holster, papers in envelope on sun visor, so hands can be away from body, etc) but the idea is the same.

    MD

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    2, 4, 5 A defender wrote:
    joeroket wrote:
    malichite wrote:
    This brings up a question. I have my CPL and I always have a loaded weapon in the car. Usually it is on my side or in the glove box. What do you do if it is in the glove box with your registration. Obviously you would want to inform the officer that you have the weapon there, but what are his limitations if you have your CPL and what can he do at that point? Disarm you/remove the weapon and inspect it?
    If the firearm is in the same place as my registration or insurance card I will always notify them that my (insert documentation here) is in my (insert location here) and I have a firearm in the same location.
    if youre being pulled over by LEO, get your documents out of the proximity of your gun before the cop gets to the car, put them on the dashboard.
    And that could be construed as furtive movements and cause more grief than you want.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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