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Definition of "loaded"?

T

tyguy808

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Hey..... new guy here....

Just got my first pistol and am planning on mostly OC, thanks to this and NWCDL forums. I am still waiting on my CPL, so for the time being I will be exclusively OC. My question is, while in the truck, what is the definition of unloaded? No round in the chamber? No clip in the gun? How far does the clip have to be from my gun? Can it just be out sitting next to it in the glove box or what?
 
ak56

ak56

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tyguy808 wrote:
Hey..... new guy here....

Just got my first pistol and am planning on mostly OC, thanks to this and NWCDL forums. I am still waiting on my CPL, so for the time being I will be exclusively OC. My question is, while in the truck, what is the definition of unloaded? No round in the chamber? No clip in the gun? How far does the clip have to be from my gun? Can it just be out sitting next to it in the glove box or what?
Click to expand...
No round in the chamber, no clip/magazine in the firearm, you're good to go.


RCW 9.41.010
Terms defined.

(9) "Loaded" means:

(a) There is a cartridge in the chamber of the firearm;

(b) Cartridges are in a clip that is locked in place in the firearm;

(c) There is a cartridge in the cylinder of the firearm, if the firearm is a revolver;

(d) There is a cartridge in the tube or magazine that is inserted in the action; or

(e) There is a ball in the barrel and the firearm is capped or primed if the firearm is a muzzle loader.
 
TechnoWeenie

TechnoWeenie

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ak56 wrote:
tyguy808 wrote:
Hey..... new guy here....

Just got my first pistol and am planning on mostly OC, thanks to this and NWCDL forums. I am still waiting on my CPL, so for the time being I will be exclusively OC. My question is, while in the truck, what is the definition of unloaded? No round in the chamber? No clip in the gun? How far does the clip have to be from my gun? Can it just be out sitting next to it in the glove box or what?
Click to expand...
No round in the chamber, no clip/magazine in the firearm, you're good to go.


RCW 9.41.010
Terms defined. 

     (9) "Loaded" means:

     (a) There is a cartridge in the chamber of the firearm;

     (b) Cartridges are in a clip that is locked in place in the firearm;

     (c) There is a cartridge in the cylinder of the firearm, if the firearm is a revolver;

     (d) There is a cartridge in the tube or magazine that is inserted in the action; or

     (e) There is a ball in the barrel and the firearm is capped or primed if the firearm is a muzzle loader.
Click to expand...


Correction, no round in the chamber, no loaded magazine seated.
 
ak56

ak56

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TechnoWeenie wrote:
ak56 wrote:
tyguy808 wrote:
Hey..... new guy here....

Just got my first pistol and am planning on mostly OC, thanks to this and NWCDL forums. I am still waiting on my CPL, so for the time being I will be exclusively OC. My question is, while in the truck, what is the definition of unloaded? No round in the chamber? No clip in the gun? How far does the clip have to be from my gun? Can it just be out sitting next to it in the glove box or what?
Click to expand...
No round in the chamber, no clip/magazine in the firearm, you're good to go.


RCW 9.41.010
Terms defined.

(9) "Loaded" means:

(a) There is a cartridge in the chamber of the firearm;

(b) Cartridges are in a clip that is locked in place in the firearm;

(c) There is a cartridge in the cylinder of the firearm, if the firearm is a revolver;

(d) There is a cartridge in the tube or magazine that is inserted in the action; or

(e) There is a ball in the barrel and the firearm is capped or primed if the firearm is a muzzle loader.
Click to expand...


Correction, no round in the chamber, no loaded magazine seated.
Click to expand...
You are correct.
 
TechnoWeenie

TechnoWeenie

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joeroket wrote:
If a magazine is inserted, however slight, the firearm is loaded under state statute.
Click to expand...

The magazine must be LOADED....

An EMPTY magazine can be inserted, a loaded one cannot.

RCW 9.41.010
Terms defined.

(9) "Loaded" means:

(a) There is a cartridge in the chamber of the firearm;

(b) Cartridges are in a clip that is locked in place in the firearm;

(c) There is a cartridge in the cylinder of the firearm, if the firearm is a revolver;

(d) There is a cartridge in the tube or magazine that is inserted in the action; or

(e) There is a ball in the barrel and the firearm is capped or primed if the firearm is a muzzle loader
 
amlevin

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joeroket wrote:
If a magazine is inserted, however slight, the firearm is loaded under state statute.
Click to expand...
The problem with an unloaded magazine in a firearm is that there is no way to tell if it is "loaded" just by looking at it. For example, that AR-15 in the back seat, with an empty magazine inserted, looks just like one with a fully loaded magazine inserted. No way for the LEO that stopped you to tell without inspecting it himself. Can you visualize how this "Stop" might play out?
 
T

tyguy808

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Seems like I stirred a bit of controversy here..... When in a car with no CPL you must have the weapon stored out of sight anyways (right?) and unloaded. So LEO should never see it anyhow. If you're keeping your AK in the back seat uncovered, seems like you're just asking to get checked out anyhow.
 
9

911Boss

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amlevin wrote:
joeroket wrote:
If a magazine is inserted, however slight, the firearm is loaded under state statute.
Click to expand...
The problem with an unloaded magazine in a firearm is that there is no way to tell if it is "loaded" just by looking at it. For example, that AR-15 in the back seat, with an empty magazine inserted, looks just like one with a fully loaded magazine inserted. No way for the LEO that stopped you to tell without inspecting it himself. Can you visualize how this "Stop" might play out?
Click to expand...
While it may be a problem, it isn't a legal concern. It may be enough for RAS or PC to detain and investigate, but it isn't going to get you a cite.

As to how the stop might "play out", that depends more on how a person responds and reacts to the officer's commands than it does to the apparently loaded AR in the back seat.
 
amlevin

amlevin

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911Boss wrote:
As to how the stop might "play out", that depends more on how a person responds and reacts to the officer's commands than it does to the apparently loaded AR in the back seat.
Click to expand...
I added that comment because it appears that many on this Forum tend to be confrontational. About 30 years ago I used to ride extensively in a patrol car in So Snohomish County. Saw it every night I was out back then and it appears it hasn't changed much.
 
M

malichite

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This brings up a question. I have my CPL and I always have a loaded weapon in the car. Usually it is on my side or in the glove box. What do you do if it is in the glove box with your registration. Obviously you would want to inform the officer that you have the weapon there, but what are his limitations if you have your CPL and what can he do at that point? Disarm you/remove the weapon and inspect it?
 
J

joeroket

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malichite wrote:
This brings up a question.  I have my CPL and I always have a loaded weapon in the car.  Usually it is on my side or in the glove box.  What do you do if it is in the glove box with your registration.  Obviously you would want to inform the officer that you have the weapon there, but what are his limitations if you have your CPL and what can he do at that point?  Disarm you/remove the weapon and inspect it?
Click to expand...

If the firearm is in the same place as my registration or insurance card I will always notify them that my (insert documentation here) is in my (insert location here) and I have a firearm in the same location.
 
J

joeroket

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TechnoWeenie wrote:
joeroket wrote:
If a magazine is inserted, however slight, the firearm is loaded under state statute.
Click to expand...

The magazine must be LOADED....

An EMPTY magazine can be inserted, a loaded one cannot.

RCW 9.41.010
Terms defined.

(9) "Loaded" means:

(a) There is a cartridge in the chamber of the firearm;

(b) Cartridges are in a clip that is locked in place in the firearm;

(c) There is a cartridge in the cylinder of the firearm, if the firearm is a revolver;

(d) There is a cartridge in the tube or magazine that is inserted in the action; or

(e) There is a ball in the barrel and the firearm is capped or primed if the firearm is a muzzle loader
Click to expand...

Yes. Go back and read your post. You said no loaded magazine that is seated. This is wrong. A loaded magazine that is in inserted however slight, correctly or incorrectly, is loaded.
Hell you could have one dud cartridge in a magazine that has been pounded into the magwell upside down and backwards only 1/16th of an inch and it is considered loaded.
 
1245A Defender

1245A Defender

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joeroket wrote:
malichite wrote:
This brings up a question. I have my CPL and I always have a loaded weapon in the car. Usually it is on my side or in the glove box. What do you do if it is in the glove box with your registration. Obviously you would want to inform the officer that you have the weapon there, but what are his limitations if you have your CPL and what can he do at that point? Disarm you/remove the weapon and inspect it?
Click to expand...

If the firearm is in the same place as my registration or insurance card I will always notify them that my (insert documentation here) is in my (insert location here) and I have a firearm in the same location.
Click to expand...
if youre being pulled over by LEO, get your documents out of the proximity of your gun before the cop gets to the car, put them on the dashboard.
 
J

Jeff Hayes

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I guess I do not understand why anyone would have (want) their firearm in the same place as their papers. My papers are always in the glove box and if the weapon is not on my person its in the console. Wife, kids and friends have all been instructed to never open the console during a stop. Before I had a car with a console I had a clip on the visor holder for my papers.

Orphan
 
Machoduck

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RCW 9.41.010 (9) is a study in ambiguity. Does "clip" mean clip or is it standard erroneous nomenclature for magazine? Does "in" mean all the way in and latched? Maybe it means substantially into the grip but not latched. Maybe in means what Joe says - even a tiny bit in.

I suspect that since they have the separate terms clip and magazine that "clip" means clip and they're referring to a stripper clip a la a Garand being in place whereby shoving down on the cartridges would load the rifle (watch the thumb!) However, my guess is worth what you paid for it.

I won't even hazard a guess as to what "in" means exactly (and no Bill Clinton jokes if you please.) It makes sense to use use Joe's definition; we have enough trouble with certain people when there's no ambiguity.

MD
 
B

Brandnew

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Orphan wrote:
I guess I do not understand why anyone would have (want) their firearm in the same place as their papers. My papers are always in the glove box and if the weapon is not on my person its in the console.
Click to expand...
It depends how you organize items in your vehicle. If the only compartment that locks inside your vehicle is your glove box, and that's also the best place to keep your papers because you keep different items in your center console, then sometimes they will need to share a space for short periods of time.

I'm not saying it's ideal, but I've definitely returned to my vehicle and started driving without returning my pistol to my body for whatever reason. If I were to be stopped, I think handing DL on top of CPL will start things off in the right direction.
 
killchain

killchain

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I kinda figure if there's a magazine in the weapon, what's the point of it not having rounds in it? Like putting an empty box in your truck when you're moving. ;)
 
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