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Thread: school zone

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    Morning. I have a quick question about school zones. I will be running a few errands today and one of my stops will take me to a school to get a copy of my diploma.Can i go there and lock the weapon in the trunk while I go inside? I'm sorry if this seems a silly question, but I guess never having the occasion to go to a school I havent made the point to commit it thoroughly enough to memory.

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    as long as its locked in your trunk you can enter the school.

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    Thank you cabman, for your quick response. I thought this would be the case but just thoughtI shouldask quick before i run out the door to make sure I wasnt missing something.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    As you exit your car, you must OC to your trunk to be legal.

    Concealed outside the vehicle, I believe to be illegal according to the wording of the law.

    I would suggest locking it in the glovebox before exiting the car.

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    If you don't have a CPL, I would suggest against parking on the school property. Without a CPL, the law doesn't seem to make a distinction between inside or outside of buildings.

    Granted, no one would probably ever know, but I've definitely come to believe you should never leave anything to chance with Michigan's restrictive gun laws and the brutally mean police that can be encountered.

    All that said, if you do have a CPL, you'll be good to go in the trunk, or in the passenger compartment.
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    dougwg wrote:
    As you exit your car, you must OC to your trunk to be legal.

    Concealed outside the vehicle, I believe to be illegal according to the wording of the law.

    I would suggest locking it in the glovebox before exiting the car.
    The wording of the CPL law gives two exemptions. One is for people picking up another from the school, and the other exempts parking lots, period.

    Any form of legal carry is legal in a parking lot of a CEZ.

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    Hmmm...car door doesn't lock. I'm rather uncomfortable with the glovebox. Would unloading an puting in case to walk to trunk work?

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Just lock it in the car if you have a CPL.. IF not there is no way you would have the gun legally in the passenger compartment.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Dorknob wrote:
    Hmmm...car door doesn't lock. I'm rather uncomfortable with the glovebox. Would unloading an puting in case to walk to trunk work?
    Have a cable lock? Like for a bicycle? It's a moderately effective means to lock a handgun to the most rigid structure in a car, like the seat or something. Just run the cable though the mag well.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Perhaps I'll have to add another stop to my agenda to grab one. Thanks all for your advice.

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    dougwg wrote:
    As you exit your car, you must OC to your trunk to be legal.

    Concealed outside the vehicle, I believe to be illegal according to the wording of the law.

    I would suggest locking it in the glovebox before exiting the car.
    The wording of the CPL law gives two exemptions. One is for people picking up another from the school, and the other exempts parking lots, period.

    Any form of legal carry is legal in a parking lot of a CEZ.
    With the exception of CASINO parking lots. You may want to look at the fine print on that on.

    Mike

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    mikestilly wrote:
    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    dougwg wrote:
    As you exit your car, you must OC to your trunk to be legal.

    Concealed outside the vehicle, I believe to be illegal according to the wording of the law.

    I would suggest locking it in the glovebox before exiting the car.
    The wording of the CPL law gives two exemptions. One is for people picking up another from the school, and the other exempts parking lots, period.

    Any form of legal carry is legal in a parking lot of a CEZ.
    With the exception of CASINO parking lots. You may want to look at the fine print on that on.

    Mike
    True that.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    mikestilly wrote:
    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    dougwg wrote:
    As you exit your car, you must OC to your trunk to be legal.

    Concealed outside the vehicle, I believe to be illegal according to the wording of the law.

    I would suggest locking it in the glovebox before exiting the car.
    The wording of the CPL law gives two exemptions. One is for people picking up another from the school, and the other exempts parking lots, period.

    Any form of legal carry is legal in a parking lot of a CEZ.
    With the exception of CASINO parking lots. You may want to look at the fine print on that on.

    Mike
    You're wrong.

    Michigan's Administrative code defines a CASINO as a building where gambling takes place. Further, it defines a CASINO ENTERPRISE as the entire premises where a casino is located, including all property owned by the enterprise.

    A CASINO is ONLY the building. A CASINO ENTERPRISE includes the parking lot.

    One cannot carry into a CASINO, but they CAN, however, carry in every other part of the CASINO ENTERPRISE.


    EDIT FOR CITATIONS: http://www.michigan.gov/mgcb/0,1607,...2946--,00.html
    http://www.state.mi.us/mgcb/f-rules1.pdf


    432.202 Definitions.

    (g) "Casino" means a building in which gaming is conducted.

    (h) "Casino enterprise" means the buildings, facilities, or rooms functionally or physically connected to a casino, including but not limited to any bar, restaurant, hotel, cocktail lounge, retail establishment, or arena or any other facility located in a city under the control of a casino licensee or affiliated company.


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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    mikestilly wrote:


    You're wrong.

    Michigan's Administrative code defines a CASINO as a building where gambling takes place. Further, it defines a CASINO ENTERPRISE as the entire premises where a casino is located, including all property owned by the enterprise.

    A CASINO is ONLY the building. A CASINO ENTERPRISE includes the parking lot.

    One cannot carry into a CASINO, but they CAN, however, carry in every other part of the CASINO ENTERPRISE.


    EDIT FOR CITATIONS: http://www.michigan.gov/mgcb/0,1607,...2946--,00.html
    http://www.state.mi.us/mgcb/f-rules1.pdf


    432.202 Definitions.

    (g) "Casino" means a building in which gaming is conducted.

    (h) "Casino enterprise" means the buildings, facilities, or rooms functionally or physically connected to a casino, including but not limited to any bar, restaurant, hotel, cocktail lounge, retail establishment, or arena or any other facility located in a city under the control of a casino licensee or affiliated company.
    I guess we have to look at what the rules in regards to R432.1212 say. If they say no firearms then we may not be able to have them in parking lots. If the Statute only applies to "Casinos" proper then why not say that. Instead the say...

    "shall not carry a concealed pistol in violation of R 432.1212 or a successor rule of the Michigan administrative code promulgated under the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, 1996 IL 1, MCL 432.201 to 432.226."

    I can't seem to find what R432.1212 states.



    28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.

    Sec. 5o.

    (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

    (a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.

    (b) A public or private child care center or day care center, public or private child caring institution, or public or private child placing agency.

    (c) A sports arena or stadium.

    (d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.

    (e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.

    (f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.

    (g) A hospital.

    (h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.

    (2) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol in violation of R 432.1212 or a successor rule of the Michigan administrative code promulgated under the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, 1996 IL 1, MCL 432.201 to 432.226.

    (3) As used in subsection (1), "premises" does not include parking areas of the places identified under subsection (1).
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    I can't seem to find what R432.1212 states.*
    It was in my second link:

    http://www.state.mi.us/mgcb/f-rules1.pdf

    R 432.1212 Weapons in casino.

    Rule 212. (1) An individual may not carry a firearm or other weapon in a casino, except for the following entities:

    (a) State, county, city, township, or village law enforcement officers, as defined in section 2(e) of Act No. 203 of the Public Acts of 1965, as amended, being § 28.601 et seq. of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    (b) Federal law enforcement officers, as defined in 5 U.S.C. § 8331.
    (c) Armored car personnel picking up or delivering currency at secured areas.

    (2) Law enforcement officers conducting official duties within a casino shall, to the extent practicable, advise the Michigan state police gaming section of their presence.

    (3) Private casino security personnel may carry handcuffs while on duty in a casino.
    Notice "Casino Enterprise" isn't used once.

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    I can't seem to find what R432.1212 states.
    It was in my second link:

    http://www.state.mi.us/mgcb/f-rules1.pdf

    R 432.1212 Weapons in casino.

    Rule 212. (1) An individual may not carry a firearm or other weapon in a casino, except for the following entities:

    (a) State, county, city, township, or village law enforcement officers, as defined in section 2(e) of Act No. 203 of the Public Acts of 1965, as amended, being § 28.601 et seq. of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    (b) Federal law enforcement officers, as defined in 5 U.S.C. § 8331.
    (c) Armored car personnel picking up or delivering currency at secured areas.

    (2) Law enforcement officers conducting official duties within a casino shall, to the extent practicable, advise the Michigan state police gaming section of their presence.

    (3) Private casino security personnel may carry handcuffs while on duty in a casino.
    Notice "Casino Enterprise" isn't used once.
    Then it looks as if you can carry a firearm in any part of a casino complex except the actual room where gambling is taking place.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    Then it looks as if you can carry a firearm in any part of a casino complex except the actual room where gambling is taking place.
    You can carry on casino grounds EXCEPT the building where gambling takes place. So if the hotel is part of the casino building, it's off limits, too. If it's a separate building (even if attached by a walkway or underground tunnel), then you're A-OK.

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    I was under the impression that w/a CPL, OC on/in school grounds was legal, as long as it is k-12?

  19. #19
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    FatboyCykes wrote:
    I was under the impression that w/a CPL, OC on/in school grounds was legal, as long as it is k-12?
    That appears to be true.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  20. #20
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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    Then it looks as if you can carry a firearm in any part of a casino complex except the actual room where gambling is taking place.
    You can carry on casino grounds EXCEPT the building where gambling takes place. So if the hotel is part of the casino building, it's off limits, too. If it's a separate building (even if attached by a walkway or underground tunnel), then you're A-OK.
    Gotcha.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  21. #21
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    Venator wrote:
    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    Then it looks as if you can carry a firearm in any part of a casino complex except the actual room where gambling is taking place.
    You can carry on casino grounds EXCEPT the building where gambling takes place. So if the hotel is part of the casino building, it's off limits, too. If it's a separate building (even if attached by a walkway or underground tunnel), then you're A-OK.
    Gotcha.
    What about OC in the Casino if you have a CPL?

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    R 432.1212 Weapons in casino.

    Rule 212. (1) An individual may not carry a firearm or other weapon in a casino, except for the following entities:

    (a) State, county, city, township, or village law enforcement officers, as defined in section 2(e) of Act No. 203 of the Public Acts of 1965, as amended, being § 28.601 et seq. of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    (b) Federal law enforcement officers, as defined in 5 U.S.C. § 8331.
    (c) Armored car personnel picking up or delivering currency at secured areas.

    (2) Law enforcement officers conducting official duties within a casino shall, to the extent practicable, advise the Michigan state police gaming section of their presence.

    (3) Private casino security personnel may carry handcuffs while on duty in a casino.

    Can't do it unless (a), (b), (c) or (2).springerdave.

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    Thanks Dave. Interesting, I rarely go in casinos anyways but I had no idea about the OC.

  24. #24
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    Dorknob, with a CPL, you can CC in the parking lot, so walking normally to your trunk is fine.

  25. #25
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    Venator wrote:
    28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.

    Sec. 5o.

    (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

    (a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.

    (b) A public or private child care center or day care center, public or private child caring institution, or public or private child placing agency.

    (c) A sports arena or stadium.

    (d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.

    (e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.

    (f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.

    (g) A hospital.

    (h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.

    (2) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol in violation of R 432.1212 or a successor rule of the Michigan administrative code promulgated under the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, 1996 IL 1, MCL 432.201 to 432.226.

    (3) As used in subsection (1), "premises" does not include parking areas of the places identified under subsection (1).
    I just noticed something ....

    The parking lot exception is only for those places listed in subsection (1). A Casino isn't listed under ss (1), it is subsection (2).

    Bronson
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