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Thread: Sellers request CPL when selling rifle

  1. #1
    Regular Member Washintonian_For_Liberty's Avatar
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    I just don't get people who are selling guns to fellow Americans and requiring CPL for buying a rifle.

    Even for a pistol, it makes no sense. Its not like you're making a habit of selling weapons... or are you?

    It seems like you've accepted the unconstitutionality of Federal intrusion and so you do things you are by no means required to do. If you are selling to a person who is an open carrier like yourself, why do you need any of that information? If you want to be assured you won't get in trouble... sell the products to a pawn shop that is licensed to buy and sell firearms and don't bother trying to sell products.

    Owning a gun is as fundamental a right as free speech or worshiping in your own way... capitulating to the unconstitutional government just strengthens their hand.
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    Regular Member swatspyder's Avatar
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    I agree

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    I just don't get people who are selling guns to fellow Americans and requiring CPL for buying a rifle.

    Even for a pistol, it makes no sense. Its not like you're making a habit of selling weapons... or are you?

    It seems like you've accepted the unconstitutionality of Federal intrusion and so you do things you are by no means required to do. If you are selling to a person who is an open carrier like yourself, why do you need any of that information? If you want to be assured you won't get in trouble... sell the products to a pawn shop that is licensed to buy and sell firearms and don't bother trying to sell products.

    Owning a gun is as fundamental a right as free speech or worshiping in your own way... capitulating to the unconstitutional government just strengthens their hand.
    You mean a fellow OCer was selling you a gun and asked for your CPL?

    Did you show him the CPL or did you decline?

    Did you get the rifle?



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    Just to be the "devils advocate"

    A seller can request whatever they want - price, special stipulations as to how and what and where, etc. (e.g Driver's license, CPL, fill out the transfer forms, etc).

    Its up to you as the buyer if the price and "stipulations" are reasonable and if you agree to do them. There is no law against.

    More people are leery about selling a firearm and having it come back to them for whatever reason. Even honest and good faith transactions can now come back and bite you in the behind.

    Look at what happened to Bullseye when the DC Sniper and a rifle that traced back to them. Who the hell wants all that BS.

    So, yes I have seen a drastic increase in this request as it beats out going and getting a backgrounds check and paying for this type of research. Most sellers figure by having a CPL - you have already been "stamped" as gone through a background check and so forth and a reasonable risk to sell to.

    Yes, this does not guarantee that something bad won't happen but it ensures from the beginning that you are who you are and that you have already been through the system by some agency.

    If you don't like it - as a buyer move onto someone else that does not have this stipulation on their "For Sell."
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  5. #5
    Regular Member Washintonian_For_Liberty's Avatar
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    Stop all background checks.... federal background checks are unconstitutional anyway... we need to fight these unconstitutional laws... not compound them. Bad people get guns... no matter how difficult you make it to legally get a gun. Where guns are completely illegal... bad people STILL have guns and gun crimes still happen. So regulation is NOT the answer.

    Control freaks don't want regulation to prevent crime... they want regulation to control people.

    We need to end regulation on firearms on the federal level and greatly reduce it on the State level to the point of there being little to no regulations on firearms.

    Government causes more problems than they solve. Requiring people comply with unconstitutional government intrusion just compounds the problem.

    If we don't stand up to the jack booted thugs that are the Progressives in Government... we will continue to slide down this slippery slope that is leading us into Fascism.
    Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. ~ George Washington

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    Damn, and I was just thinking how nice it was around here without you. Now after you finish your usual shrieking about ad hominen attacks...

    First off, not every single person in this state selling a gun is going to think like you. So right off the bat you aren't going to always get what you want.

    Second, some people ask for a CPL as a real quick way of satisfying themselves that the person they are selling to is most likely legit on owning a gun. I've sold guns and just handed them over to the person... if I know them very well. Sometimes I've taken down a driver's license number, and sometimes I ask for a CPL too. I'll not quibble so much over the CPL, it's a handy way of culling the herd on people responding to an ad.

    Believe it or not, some people are worried about liability. As much as I hate to admit that I agree with most of what you said, there is still the fear of legal repercussions. Not so much from government, but private parties. Say I sell a gun to someone, and they go on a crime spree and kill someone with it. It gets tracked back to me, and I get sued for selling the gun. Demonstrating a clear trail of "responsible" efforts to sell the gun might make it easier for me.

    So after you climb down from your high horse, stop and think that some people aren't going to do things as you would like, and they may very well have very good reasons to them to do so. And since they are the seller, they can do whatever they like as a condition of the sale. This is a free market, you are free to pass them up and go somewhere else. But you sound funny when you snivel like an offended liberal when they don't get their way.


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    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    You mean a fellow OCer was selling you a gun and asked for your CPL?

    Did you show him the CPL or did you decline?

    Did you get the rifle?

    Stop all background checks.... federal background checks are unconstitutional anyway... we need to fight these unconstitutional laws... not compound them. Bad people get guns... no matter how difficult you make it to legally get a gun. Where guns are completely illegal... bad people STILL have guns and gun crimes still happen. So regulation is NOT the answer.

    Control freaks don't want regulation to prevent crime... they want regulation to control people.

    We need to end regulation on firearms on the federal level and greatly reduce it on the State level to the point of there being little to no regulations on firearms.

    Government causes more problems than they solve. Requiring people comply with unconstitutional government intrusion just compounds the problem.

    If we don't stand up to the jack booted thugs that are the Progressives in Government... we will continue to slide down this slippery slope that is leading us into Fascism.

    Did you get the rifle from the guy?


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    if you dont want to show your cpl then I guess you can buy elsewhere.

    It comes down to if you have a cpl you can own a firearm and not some ******* who's a felon or some DV *****.

    maybe you don't want to cover your ass but they do.

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    sv_libertarian wrote:
    SNIP.....some people ask for a CPL as a real quick way of satisfying themselves that the person they are selling to is most likely legit on owning a gun.
    Yup. I ask to "view" a CPL and a WADL to satisfy that I've done my part to make sure I'm not selling to a person who is otherwise banned from owning. It takes three seconds for me to read the name on the CPL, and make sure that it matches the name on the WADL, then I look at the picture on the DL and look back at the person standing in front of me.

    I've sold (and bought)PLENTY of guns Face-To-Face, and never had anyone gripe about my system. If you're offended, then I immediately wonder if you have something to hide. Which means I do not go through with the deal. I don't owe you anything.

    I'm offended, that you're offended.

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    If it were someone I knew I wouldn't worry about it. But If it is someone I'm only acquainted with or do not know, I wouldn't sell a firearm without a DL and CPL. It sucks but that's the way it is these days.

  11. #11
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    Mainsail wrote:
    If it were someone I knew I wouldn't worry about it. But If it is someone I'm only acquainted with or do not know, I wouldn't sell a firearm without a DL and CPL.
    G20-IWB24/7 wrote:
    Yup. I ask to "view" a CPL and a WADL to satisfy that I've done my part to make sure I'm not selling to a person who is otherwise banned from owning.

    What about a person who OCs, same as you? Wouldn't you kind of say it's a special case?






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    Mainsail wrote:
    If it were someone I knew I wouldn't worry about it. But If it is someone I'm only acquainted with or do not know, I wouldn't sell a firearm without a DL and CPL. It sucks but that's the way it is these days.
    I wonder if this isn't an activity where we can stand up for liberty a little bit?

    Unless it is illegal to sell, or the buyer has obvious prison-pallor or something, maybe we can make the sale and tell the government to bugger off.

    Otherwise the government over-reach just got a little longer, no?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    Mainsail wrote:
    If it were someone I knew I wouldn't worry about it. But If it is someone I'm only acquainted with or do not know, I wouldn't sell a firearm without a DL and CPL. It sucks but that's the way it is these days.
    I wonder if this isn't an activity where we can stand up for liberty a little bit?

    Unless it is illegal to sell, or the buyer has obvious prison-pallor or something, maybe we can make the sale and tell the government to bugger off.

    Otherwise the government over-reach just got a little longer, no?
    What have you done when you sold guns in the past, Citizen? Have you checked any buyer ID?

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    HankT wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Mainsail wrote:
    If it were someone I knew I wouldn't worry about it. But If it is someone I'm only acquainted with or do not know, I wouldn't sell a firearm without a DL and CPL. It sucks but that's the way it is these days.
    I wonder if this isn't an activity where we can stand up for liberty a little bit?

    Unless it is illegal to sell, or the buyer has obvious prison-pallor or something, maybe we can make the sale and tell the government to bugger off.

    Otherwise the government over-reach just got a little longer, no?
    What have you done when you sold guns in the past, Citizen? Have you checked any buyer ID?
    Anybody else want to ask? I'm happy to answer. I just know that Hanky isn't really interested in the answer.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  15. #15
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Mainsail wrote:
    If it were someone I knew I wouldn't worry about it. But If it is someone I'm only acquainted with or do not know, I wouldn't sell a firearm without a DL and CPL. It sucks but that's the way it is these days.
    I wonder if this isn't an activity where we can stand up for liberty a little bit?

    Unless it is illegal to sell, or the buyer has obvious prison-pallor or something, maybe we can make the sale and tell the government to bugger off.

    Otherwise the government over-reach just got a little longer, no?
    What have you done when you sold guns in the past, Citizen? Have you checked any buyer ID?
    Anybody else want to ask? I'm happy to answer. I just know that Hanky isn't really interested in the answer.
    I really want to know, Cit.

    It's a simple enough question.

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    a felon can oc but a felon can't have a cpl



    so i think hank is bored and want to be a ass as usual

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    Boo Boo wrote:
    SNIP so i think hank is bored and want to be a ass as usual
    And you just fell for it.

    Of course he is. He wants people to react, to experience an unpleasant feeling. He feeds on it.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Washintonian_For_Liberty's Avatar
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    How can you ever be held responsible for someone else taking a gun and killing people with it?

    Lets say for example, the person you sold to has a CPL here in Washington... but it is fake... is it still your fault? Sure it is... just looking at a piece of paper does not mean anyone is legit.

    The truly progressive way to look at this is that if someone buys a car from you.. then goes out and mows down a family in a park with the car... can the relatives of that family sue you? How about if that person did not have a drivers license? You can sell a car to someone without a drivers license. They can't drive it legally, but they can buy it. I know, because I bought a truck when I was 14 from one of our neighbors. Would the neighbor be liable if I then took the truck out and wrecked it?

    I think one of the real messed up problems in this country is that nobody is responsible for themselves any more... the alcohol made them do it, the coke made me do it, my depression made me do it... its that other guy's fault because he sold me the car, the gun, the machete...

    Personal responsibility is sorely lacking and if we want to preserve our freedom... we had better start demanding that people be held personally responsible for their own actions and stop allowing others who had nothing to do with their actions to be held liable... this whole argument of liability must be nipped in the bud.
    Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. ~ George Washington

  19. #19
    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    Mainsail wrote:
    If it were someone I knew I wouldn't worry about it. But If it is someone I'm only acquainted with or do not know, I wouldn't sell a firearm without a DL and CPL. It sucks but that's the way it is these days.
    I wonder if this isn't an activity where we can stand up for liberty a little bit?

    Unless it is illegal to sell, or the buyer has obvious prison-pallor or something, maybe we can make the sale and tell the government to bugger off.

    Otherwise the government over-reach just got a little longer, no?
    I don't involve the government, I don't require the sale pass through an FFL, but I do want to know who is buying my gun. It's a personal moral decision.

  20. #20
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    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    How can you ever be held responsible for someone else taking a gun and killing people with it?

    Lets say for example, the person you sold to has a CPL here in Washington... but it is fake... is it still your fault? Sure it is... just looking at a piece of paper does not mean anyone is legit.

    The truly progressive way to look at this is that if someone buys a car from you.. then goes out and mows down a family in a park with the car... can the relatives of that family sue you? How about if that person did not have a drivers license? You can sell a car to someone without a drivers license. They can't drive it legally, but they can buy it. I know, because I bought a truck when I was 14 from one of our neighbors. Would the neighbor be liable if I then took the truck out and wrecked it?

    I think one of the real messed up problems in this country is that nobody is responsible for themselves any more... the alcohol made them do it, the coke made me do it, my depression made me do it... its that other guy's fault because he sold me the car, the gun, the machete...

    Personal responsibility is sorely lacking and if we want to preserve our freedom... we had better start demanding that people be held personally responsible for their own actions and stop allowing others who had nothing to do with their actions to be held liable... this whole argument of liability must be nipped in the bud.
    Heya, WFL. I'm just wondering.

    Have you ever heard of a job called.....lawyer?

    There are actually quite a few people who have that job. And they're always looking for something to do...

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    Wow . . . it's amazing how much hostility and nastiness has crept into this forum lately. It's sad. And it's not even entertaining hostility like we used to get from Bear 45/70!

    But regarding the original topic: If I were to sell a gun, I would probably ask to see a CPL also. To me, it's not so much about liability and the potential to get sued . . . it's more about making darned sure that the person I sell it to is someone who SHOULD have a gun.

    Even if it's just about my own conscience and peace of mind, I don't ever want to provide a gun to a scumbag.

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    Mad Pick wrote:
    Wow . . . it's amazing how much hostility and nastiness has crept into this forum lately. It's sad. And it's not even entertaining hostility like we used to get from Bear 45/70!

    But regarding the original topic: If I were to sell a gun, I would probably ask to see a CPL also. To me, it's not so much about liability and the potential to get sued . . . it's more about making darned sure that the person I sell it to is someone who SHOULD have a gun.

    Even if it's just about my own conscience and peace of mind, I don't ever want to provide a gun to a scumbag.
    Yours is an ethical position.

    So, it has a great deal of value. And it says something very positive about you, sir.

    Alas, not everyone is up to your ethical standards.

    A high level of ethics can coexist with 2A. Easily.

  23. #23
    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    If I know the person, I don't check CPL or anything. If I don't, just seeing the CPL is good enough to prove I sold the firearm in good faith, with reasonable knowledge the person was not a felon or otherwise prohibited from owning. Do I agree with the need? No....but one would be a fool to ignore said need and sell to anyone without any kind of check. If you sell to a felon and don't check anything, you WILL have trouble on your doorstep if that gun is used in a crime.

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    compmanio365 wrote:
    If I know the person, I don't check CPL or anything.
    Agreed, and I wouldn't either although I didn't mention this in my post above.

  25. #25
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    Time for my take on this one. First, I have to agree that those at the various ends of the political bell curve have gotten much more stand-offish and like to bully others who disagree even so slightly.

    If I was to sell a gun, you can be damn sure I will not sell to someone without a CPL and DL. I will make copies of both along with a bill of sale with serial numbers, names, addresses, phone numbers, emails. Why you will ask, to cover my a$$ and to make sure that the person I am about to turn over a tool that could take the life of another. If they don't like it, I am sure I can find a buyer who will play by my rules. Those rules even apply to my close friends.

    I don't want a gun I once owned to be used in a crime because I did not perform due diligence in vetting the buyer of the weapon. If I can prove I did the best I could to make sure I wasn't selling to a killer, felon or robber and that gun was then used in a crime, I can use that in my defense as you can be sure the prosecutor will come after the seller. That is why I will document and sell only to a CPL holder with photo ID, why WA doesn't have a pic on their CPLs is beyond me but that is for a different thread. I feel that checking a CPL is my moral and ethical responsibility to my fellow Americans.

    In the end WFL, if you don;t like it then tough sh!t. Go someplace else to buy what you want. Just don't come b!tch about it here, even if the seller was a fellow OCer.

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