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As if Walmart weren't enough of a pain already

utbagpiper

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I hope and trust not our fault, but this won't help us much. Be aware of this and the legitimate sensitivities it has doubtless created at Walmart before being too overt about carrying there in the near future.

Charles



http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=8221851

Former Walmart employee arrested at store with gun October 7th, 2009 @ 9:18pm CENTERVILLE -- Centerville police arrested a man who was walking around a Walmart with a loaded handgun Wednesday evening.
Investigators say the man was fired from the Walmart last week and had threatened to "shoot the assistant manager in the face." He continued to make threats over the phone, and the store contacted police last Friday.
The man went to the Walmart Wednesday with a .45-caliber handgun in a hip holster. He asked employees about the assistant manager, and they called police.
Officers drew their guns and arrested the man, who they say did not draw his weapon.
Centerville police plan to release the man's name when he's charged Thursday.
 

jaredbelch

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I wonder what they will charge him with. Most likely trespassing since he didn't actually do anything with the gun. Unless the threats were recorded on tape or security video/sound any charges related to his threats likely wouldn't stick or would be un-prosecutable without a confession.

Admittedly I am pretty naive regarding these things, what are your thoughts.

On a second note, I don't think this would affect my OC habits. Likely they are more reserved about these things after this incident, however since most people don't notice my firearm anyway and I don't make it a habit to threaten people I don't think there would be an issue.
 

LovesHisXD45

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, Utah, USA
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The definitions in 76-1-601.... snip....

Unless otherwise provided, the following terms apply to this title:
(1) "Act" means a voluntary bodily movement and includes speech.
(2) "Actor" means a person whose criminal responsibility is in issue in a criminal action.
(3) "Bodily injury" means physical pain, illness, or any impairment of physical condition.
(4) "Conduct" means an act or omission.
(5) "Dangerous weapon" means:
(a) any item capable of causing death or serious bodily injury; or
(b) a facsimile or representation of the item, if:
(i) the actor's use or apparent intended use of the item leads the victim to reasonably believe the item is likely
to cause death or serious bodily injury; or

(ii) the actor represents to the victim verbally or in any other manner that he is in control of such an item.

snip...

If applied to the various laws in the section, this guy is in deep shee if:

1. Two or more witnesses can testify he threatened verbally to harm the assistant manager.

2. It was recorded and/or phone calls of threats were recorded or two or more people heard the conversation.

3. His stupid move to ask about the assistant manager to staff is used to prove intent to cause serious bodily injury or harm.

You have the bases covered. There is means, motive, intent and an opportunity that was seemingly foiled only by the quick response of the staff to bring in the police before he could confront the assistant manager with his loaded gun.

I'm going to side on the guy being a complete idiot on this one. Anyone who threatens bodily harm to another person, and then shows up asking about them and carrying a loaded gun, needs to dealt with swiftly. That guy is one of the people who should not be running around with a sidearm. People like him give us all a bad rap.

Of course, we don't know all of the details involved either. Based on what we do have to go on though, it doesn't look good for the ignoramus with the gun.

Kevin
 

bmeldrum

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Well I agree the guy is an idiot-

however this reallyshould not keep us from carrying there. He did nothing wrong as far as the gun issue is concerned meaning: (now I don't know if he had a permit or not) but 1) it was holstered, 2) visible, 3) never drawn or brandished. Now the report says he had a "loaded" handgun:does that mean one in chamber or loaded mag? (If he had a permithe can have one in chamber if not than he could still have full mag).If a store personnel had asked him to leave & he didn't well than we get into trespassing/disorderly conductetc... only thing I could see would be if he didn't have a permit & there was one in the chamber...but we don't know

This won't keep me from carrying there. Besides from what I saw on the other thread was that some of the District persons (like Jim Curtis)have said they don't have a problem with people carrying as long as they are doing it in the right way & legally.
 

Kevin Jensen

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bmeldrum wrote:
only thing I could see would be if he didn't have a permit & there was one in the chamber...

Wal-Mart is not a vehicle, a public street, or a posted prohibited area. Carrying loaded in Utah is not illegal everywhere.



76-10-505. Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street.
(1) Unless otherwise authorized by law, a person may not carry a loaded firearm:
(a) in or on a vehicle, unless:
(i) the vehicle is in the person's lawful possession; or
(ii) the person is carrying the loaded firearm in a vehicle with the consent of the person lawfully in possession of the vehicle;
(b) on a public street; or
(c) in a posted prohibited area.
(2) Subsection (1)(a) does not apply to a minor under 18 years of age, since a minor under 18 years of age may not carry a loaded firearm in or on a vehicle.
(3) Notwithstanding Subsection (1)(a)(i) and (ii), a person may not possess a loaded rifle, shotgun, or muzzle-loading rifle in a vehicle.
(4) A violation of this section is a class B misdemeanor.
 

bmeldrum

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SGT Jensen wrote:
Wal-Mart is not a vehicle, a public street, or a posted prohibited area. Carrying loaded in Utah is not illegal everywhere.


Good call/catch: I haven't had my daily recommended dose of Mtn Dew! :shock:
 

cheese

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This event may create some sensitivity at wal-mart or other public places. One A hole and all suffer.
 

utbagpiper

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cheese wrote:
This event may create some sensitivity at wal-mart or other public places. One A hole and all suffer.
That is my point.

We can't control what every A-hole does. All we can do is control how we react to it.

I won't claim to know exactly what the proper response is. I will suggest we should at least be aware of the likely sensitivities. If for no other reason than to not end up needlessly endangered by some overly nervous police officer thinking he may have a copycat or repeat situation on his hands.
 

utbagpiper

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SGT Jensen wrote:
Wal-Mart is not a vehicle, a public street, or a posted prohibited area. Carrying loaded in Utah is not illegal everywhere.



76-10-505. Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street.
(1) Unless otherwise authorized by law, a person may not carry a loaded firearm:
(a) in or on a vehicle, unless:
(i) the vehicle is in the person's lawful possession; or
(ii) the person is carrying the loaded firearm in a vehicle with the consent of the person lawfully in possession of the vehicle;
(b) on a public street; or
(c) in a posted prohibited area.
(2) Subsection (1)(a) does not apply to a minor under 18 years of age, since a minor under 18 years of age may not carry a loaded firearm in or on a vehicle.
(3) Notwithstanding Subsection (1)(a)(i) and (ii), a person may not possess a loaded rifle, shotgun, or muzzle-loading rifle in a vehicle.
(4) A violation of this section is a class B misdemeanor.
True enough. However, there is a decent chance that for purposes of this statute the parking lot of a Walmart might well be argued to be a "public street." Certainly the sidewalks and streets around Walmart are public streets. And the vehicle used to get to Walmart is a vehicle.

And probably not a really good idea to chamber a round as you enter the store. We thought the greeters were sensitive to OC before. Wait 'till someone enters the store, unholsters, and racks the slide because he is no longer on a public street. :shock::shock:

Charles
 

ichigo

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Kaysville, Utah, USA
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utbagpiper please post something quick your posts are at 666 I can't stand it anymore.:what:



I carried there yesterday without any incident or strange looks. Except for the fact I am a guy and was buying bottleing jars and bread. If a decision is made it will be by the white shirtsfor fear offuture lawsuits not because costomers/employees fear for their lives.This is one place I would conceal if I had to before they would let me shop there. The prices are too dang good, ya know.

-banki-
 

younggun20

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Child said Cerka had a concealed weapons permit, which had it not been for the threats, would have allowed him to wear the gun visibly.


Oh man now i need a conceal permit to open carry to!!!? :banghead: And this whole time i've been studying to take my test to get my open carry permit!
 

Kevin Jensen

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I was shopping for over an hour in the Orem Wal-Mart this morning with my GLOCK 35 out in the open, and I saw nothing but smiling faces! :D
 

JoeSparky

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SGT Jensen wrote:
I was shopping for over an hour in the Orem Wal-Mart this morning with my GLOCK 35 out in the open, and I saw nothing but smiling faces! :D
I didn't spend as much time at Wal-Mart today as Sgt Jensen but I had no problems related to my openly carryed Glock 21 in the Lindon Wal-Mart.

Now, if the employees of the Lindon Wal-Mart actually knew what they had and where to send customers to find what they wanted... that would be a blessing!

English being spoken by the Lindon Wal-Mart employees would also be welcome!
 

KBCraig

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Granite State of Mind
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cheese wrote:
This event may create some sensitivity at wal-mart or other public places. One A hole and all suffer.
That's "one A hole who had been fired and uttered specific threats".

Joe Utah who OCs won't cause the same response.
 

b1ack5mith

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Jul 13, 2007
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Payson, Utah, USA
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when i get another semi auto, i guess ill have to shave and take my 2g's out again aye :/ lol

people just figure "earrings, tattoos, gun, HES GONNA ROB US!"
 
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