Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 60

Thread: As if Walmart weren't enough of a pain already

  1. #1
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4,792

    Post imported post

    I hope and trust not our fault, but this won't help us much. Be aware of this and the legitimate sensitivities it has doubtless created at Walmart before being too overt about carrying there in the near future.

    Charles



    http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=8221851

    Former Walmart employee arrested at store with gun October 7th, 2009 @ 9:18pm CENTERVILLE -- Centerville police arrested a man who was walking around a Walmart with a loaded handgun Wednesday evening.
    Investigators say the man was fired from the Walmart last week and had threatened to "shoot the assistant manager in the face." He continued to make threats over the phone, and the store contacted police last Friday.
    The man went to the Walmart Wednesday with a .45-caliber handgun in a hip holster. He asked employees about the assistant manager, and they called police.
    Officers drew their guns and arrested the man, who they say did not draw his weapon.
    Centerville police plan to release the man's name when he's charged Thursday.

    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Cottonwood Heights, Utah, USA
    Posts
    545

    Post imported post

    I wonder what they will charge him with. Most likely trespassing since he didn't actually do anything with the gun. Unless the threats were recorded on tape or security video/sound any charges related to his threats likely wouldn't stick or would be un-prosecutable without a confession.

    Admittedly I am pretty naive regarding these things, what are your thoughts.

    On a second note, I don't think this would affect my OC habits. Likely they are more reserved about these things after this incident, however since most people don't notice my firearm anyway and I don't make it a habit to threaten people I don't think there would be an issue.

  3. #3
    Regular Member LovesHisXD45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    , Utah, USA
    Posts
    580

    Post imported post

    The definitions in 76-1-601.... snip....

    Unless otherwise provided, the following terms apply to this title:
    (1) "Act" means a voluntary bodily movement and includes speech.
    (2) "Actor" means a person whose criminal responsibility is in issue in a criminal action.
    (3) "Bodily injury" means physical pain, illness, or any impairment of physical condition.
    (4) "Conduct" means an act or omission.
    (5) "Dangerous weapon" means:
    (a) any item capable of causing death or serious bodily injury; or
    (b) a facsimile or representation of the item, if:
    (i) the actor's use or apparent intended use of the item leads the victim to reasonably believe the item is likely
    to cause death or serious bodily injury; or

    (ii) the actor represents to the victim verbally or in any other manner that he is in control of such an item.

    snip...

    If applied to the various laws in the section, this guy is in deep shee if:

    1. Two or more witnesses can testify he threatened verbally to harm the assistant manager.

    2. It was recorded and/or phone calls of threats were recorded or two or more people heard the conversation.

    3. His stupid move to ask about the assistant manager to staff is used to prove intent to cause serious bodily injury or harm.

    You have the bases covered. There is means, motive, intent and an opportunity that was seemingly foiled only by the quick response of the staff to bring in the police before he could confront the assistant manager with his loaded gun.

    I'm going to side on the guy being a complete idiot on this one. Anyone who threatens bodily harm to another person, and then shows up asking about them and carrying a loaded gun, needs to dealt with swiftly. That guy is one of the people who should not be running around with a sidearm. People like him give us all a bad rap.

    Of course, we don't know all of the details involved either. Based on what we do have to go on though, it doesn't look good for the ignoramus with the gun.

    Kevin


    If it isn't broke, then don't fix it, or you'll fix it until it's broke.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Lehi, Utah, USA
    Posts
    202

    Post imported post

    Well I agree the guy is an idiot-

    however this reallyshould not keep us from carrying there. He did nothing wrong as far as the gun issue is concerned meaning: (now I don't know if he had a permit or not) but 1) it was holstered, 2) visible, 3) never drawn or brandished. Now the report says he had a "loaded" handgun:does that mean one in chamber or loaded mag? (If he had a permithe can have one in chamber if not than he could still have full mag).If a store personnel had asked him to leave & he didn't well than we get into trespassing/disorderly conductetc... only thing I could see would be if he didn't have a permit & there was one in the chamber...but we don't know

    This won't keep me from carrying there. Besides from what I saw on the other thread was that some of the District persons (like Jim Curtis)have said they don't have a problem with people carrying as long as they are doing it in the right way & legally.



  5. #5
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Santaquin, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,313

    Post imported post

    bmeldrum wrote:
    only thing I could see would be if he didn't have a permit & there was one in the chamber...
    Wal-Mart is not a vehicle, a public street, or a posted prohibited area. Carrying loaded in Utah is not illegal everywhere.



    76-10-505. Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street.
    (1) Unless otherwise authorized by law, a person may not carry a loaded firearm:
    (a) in or on a vehicle, unless:
    (i) the vehicle is in the person's lawful possession; or
    (ii) the person is carrying the loaded firearm in a vehicle with the consent of the person lawfully in possession of the vehicle;
    (b) on a public street; or
    (c) in a posted prohibited area.
    (2) Subsection (1)(a) does not apply to a minor under 18 years of age, since a minor under 18 years of age may not carry a loaded firearm in or on a vehicle.
    (3) Notwithstanding Subsection (1)(a)(i) and (ii), a person may not possess a loaded rifle, shotgun, or muzzle-loading rifle in a vehicle.
    (4) A violation of this section is a class B misdemeanor.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Lehi, Utah, USA
    Posts
    202

    Post imported post

    SGT Jensen wrote:
    Wal-Mart is not a vehicle, a public street, or a posted prohibited area. Carrying loaded in Utah is not illegal everywhere.

    Good call/catch: I haven't had my daily recommended dose of Mtn Dew! :shock:

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    73

    Post imported post

    This event may create some sensitivity at wal-mart or other public places. One A hole and all suffer.

  8. #8
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4,792

    Post imported post

    cheese wrote:
    This event may create some sensitivity at wal-mart or other public places. One A hole and all suffer.
    That is my point.

    We can't control what every A-hole does. All we can do is control how we react to it.

    I won't claim to know exactly what the proper response is. I will suggest we should at least be aware of the likely sensitivities. If for no other reason than to not end up needlessly endangered by some overly nervous police officer thinking he may have a copycat or repeat situation on his hands.
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  9. #9
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4,792

    Post imported post

    SGT Jensen wrote:
    Wal-Mart is not a vehicle, a public street, or a posted prohibited area. Carrying loaded in Utah is not illegal everywhere.



    76-10-505. Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street.
    (1) Unless otherwise authorized by law, a person may not carry a loaded firearm:
    (a) in or on a vehicle, unless:
    (i) the vehicle is in the person's lawful possession; or
    (ii) the person is carrying the loaded firearm in a vehicle with the consent of the person lawfully in possession of the vehicle;
    (b) on a public street; or
    (c) in a posted prohibited area.
    (2) Subsection (1)(a) does not apply to a minor under 18 years of age, since a minor under 18 years of age may not carry a loaded firearm in or on a vehicle.
    (3) Notwithstanding Subsection (1)(a)(i) and (ii), a person may not possess a loaded rifle, shotgun, or muzzle-loading rifle in a vehicle.
    (4) A violation of this section is a class B misdemeanor.
    True enough. However, there is a decent chance that for purposes of this statute the parking lot of a Walmart might well be argued to be a "public street." Certainly the sidewalks and streets around Walmart are public streets. And the vehicle used to get to Walmart is a vehicle.

    And probably not a really good idea to chamber a round as you enter the store. We thought the greeters were sensitive to OC before. Wait 'till someone enters the store, unholsters, and racks the slide because he is no longer on a public street. :shock::shock:

    Charles

    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Kaysville, Utah, USA
    Posts
    75

    Post imported post

    utbagpiper please post something quick your posts are at 666 I can't stand it anymore.:what:



    I carried there yesterday without any incident or strange looks. Except for the fact I am a guy and was buying bottleing jars and bread. If a decision is made it will be by the white shirtsfor fear offuture lawsuits not because costomers/employees fear for their lives.This is one place I would conceal if I had to before they would let me shop there. The prices are too dang good, ya know.

    -banki-

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Lehi, Utah, USA
    Posts
    202

    Post imported post

    ichigo wrote:
    utbagpiper please post something quick your posts are at 666 I can't stand it anymore.:what:
    +1 that's just creepy...

  12. #12
    Regular Member younggun20's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Ogden, Utah, USA
    Posts
    276

    Post imported post

    Child said Cerka had a concealed weapons permit, which had it not been for the threats, would have allowed him to wear the gun visibly.


    Oh man now i need a conceal permit to open carry to!!!? And this whole time i've been studying to take my test to get my open carry permit!

  13. #13
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Santaquin, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,313

    Post imported post

    I was shopping for over an hour in the Orem Wal-Mart this morning with my GLOCK 35 out in the open, and I saw nothing but smiling faces!
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  14. #14
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lehi, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,716

    Post imported post

    When'd you get the glock 35?


  15. #15
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Santaquin, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,313

    Post imported post

    I got it in June, and I'm lovin' it like a Big Mac.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  16. #16
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    SGT Jensen wrote:
    I got it in June, and I'm lovin' it like a Big Mac.
    Dammit. Now, I'm hungry.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  17. #17
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Santaquin, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,313

    Post imported post

    Citizen wrote:
    SGT Jensen wrote:
    I got it in June, and I'm lovin' it like a Big Mac.
    Dammit. Now, I'm hungry.
    Damn, trespasser. You haven't surpassed CLEO yet??? :P
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  18. #18
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
    Posts
    3,828

    Post imported post

    SGT Jensen wrote:
    I was shopping for over an hour in the Orem Wal-Mart this morning with my GLOCK 35 out in the open, and I saw nothing but smiling faces!
    I didn't spend as much time at Wal-Mart today as Sgt Jensen but I had no problems related to my openly carryed Glock 21 in the Lindon Wal-Mart.

    Now, if the employees of the Lindon Wal-Mart actually knew what they had and where to send customers to find what they wanted... that would be a blessing!

    English being spoken by the Lindon Wal-Mart employees would also be welcome!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Granite State of Mind
    Posts
    4,508

    Post imported post

    cheese wrote:
    This event may create some sensitivity at wal-mart or other public places. One A hole and all suffer.
    That's "one A hole who had been fired and uttered specific threats".

    Joe Utah who OCs won't cause the same response.


  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Payson, Utah, USA
    Posts
    1,146

    Post imported post

    when i get another semi auto, i guess ill have to shave and take my 2g's out again aye :/ lol

    people just figure "earrings, tattoos, gun, HES GONNA ROB US!"

  21. #21
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    b1ack5mith wrote:
    SNIP people just figure "earrings, tattoos, gun, HES GONNA ROB US!"
    This is why the biggest robbers--Federal Reserve and Congress--wear business suits.


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Payson, Utah, USA
    Posts
    1,146

    Post imported post

    touche'!

    its funny cause it be tr00 lol

  23. #23
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4,792

    Post imported post

    b1ack5mith wrote:
    when i get another semi auto, i guess ill have to shave and take my 2g's out again aye :/ lol

    people just figure "earrings, tattoos, gun, HES GONNA ROB US!"
    Sad reality is that looks do matter and we all make judgments about looks. Some may place different weight on different things, but most everyone makes judgments based on looks, especially when it comes to things like physical safety.

    I'll be even b1ack5mith is far less likely to jump from condition yellow to orange when it is a lone teenage or prepubescent girl walking down the sidewalk toward him at night than when it is a grown man who has the appearance of being strung out on drugs. A couple of intoxicated frat boys probably raise your awareness level higher than a couple of blue-haired senior citizens with their walkers.

    Our looks, especially those aspects directly under our control DO say something about who we are. Now, in any specific case, tats and piercings may say nothing about how violent or peaceful a person is. Indeed, with the growing sub-culture of those into "altering" their bodies, certain forms of piercing and tattoos may actually indicate the person is not at all likely to be violent. But for many, especially those who are older, tattoos and piercings on men were once an indication of a rough and tumble crowd (bikers, sailors, etc) that might have been more prone to violence.

    It turns out that most of us spend VERY little time looking at ourselves. So most of what we do, appearance-wise, is for the express purpose of conveying SOMETHING about ourselves to others. We can't hardly complain then when others notice those aspects of our appearance that we have deliberately put forth and make some judgment about us based thereon. If enough people are coming to erroneous conclusions, we may want to rethink our marketing strategy as it were.

    A bit off topic, I know. And to each his own. But to be brief in summary, it is a bit strange to me that a person will do something very noticeable to his appearance and then complain when someone notices.

    When I wear my kilt out in public, or even my suit to dress down Friday in the office, I can't very well complain when that unusual or rare attire is noticed.

    Charles


    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Bountiful, Utah, , USA
    Posts
    472

    Post imported post

    Well, I OC'd there tonight with no problems. There is an empty Centerville squad car parked over there, doubtful if there is an officer present on location - I've never seen one.

    I'm not going to alter my habits because of every little thing that gets reported in the news, sorry.

    The ex-employee was an idiot, plain and simple. You don't threaten people's lives like that, you just don't. And you definitely don't show up at your place of employment with a means to carry out your prior threat... stupid.

    I, on the other hand, have made no threats, have not shown myself to be a threat and will not conform to appease illogical fears. I will continue to do what I have done in the past and carry at all times.

    P.S. Had to wait FOREVER to return an item... ugh... 21:10 on a Saturday night and I have to wait 35 minutes to return an item... weird.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Kaysville, Utah, USA
    Posts
    75

    Post imported post

    I got stopped by the door greeter the other day. She told me I had to cover up that...that ...that... thing, pointing to my XD9. She was looking and pointing to it as if my fly was down and showing the goods. "It's store policy" she says. My reply is "I don't think so", as she picks up her radio. I was in a super hurry and had my daughter in hand and wife and other kids in the car. I held my hand up and said no need to call your manager I'm in a hurry, whats your name, I'll come back to talk to your manager about the store policy you claim exists. I put the cart back, walked over to the other store entrance, went in without hassle, found what I needed and left all while open carrying. Before I make a fool of myself and go talk to management, does anyone know if their policy has indeed changed since the incident in October?

    -banki-

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •