As if Walmart weren't enough of a pain already

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utbagpiper wrote:

BILLYBADBOY wrote:

Trekker wrote:

Or inside the bar, off duty? :?

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Apparently it is also his prerogative to carry a gun when he is way over the legal limit of BAC.

If cops want to be regular joes when they are "off duty" none of my business. Drink to your heats' content, don't get rowdy, and call a cab or use a DD rather than driving drunk.

But if they want to claim they are "never off duty" and thus need to carry a gun (even when they are not on the clock) at times and in places where mere commoners are not allowed to do so, then they darn well ought to act like they are "never off duty" and not get smashed out in public.

I can accept the logic of EITHER position. But I'd like to see officers or at least departments pick one position and stick with it.

An intoxicated man's judgment and reflexes are impaired. He has NO BUSINESS carrying, much less drawing and using a gun. If you are going to carry a gun, don't get intoxicated. If you are going to get intoxicated, leave the gun at home.

I see no reason why cops should think they are exempt from this simple, common-sense rule.

Charles

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It was not MY understanding that LEO's were exempt from the penalty of being impaired (BAC > .08 for a person 21 years or older) while in possession of a firearm but now I can't find the specific law.

And NOW, I have found the law....
http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_10_052800.htm

76-10-528. Carrying a dangerous weapon while under influence of alcohol or drugs unlawful.
(1) Any person who carries a dangerous weapon while under the influence of alcohol or a controlled substance as defined in Section 58-37-2 is guilty of a class B misdemeanor. Under the influence means the same level of influence or blood or breath alcohol concentration as provided in Subsections 41-6a-502(1)(a) through(c).
(2) It is not a defense to prosecution under this section that the person:
(a) is licensed in the pursuit of wildlife of any kind; or
(b) has a valid permit to carry a concealed firearm.

I don't really care if one is in the bar, I just don't want them DRUNK with a weapon weather that weapon be a firearm or a car! As this is written, it includes many knifes and other weapons not just firearms!

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BILLYBADBOY wrote:

Trekker wrote:

BILLYBADBOY wrote:

What does that have to do with OC?

In utah a cop is a cop. Try paying attention to how many troopers are outside your local bar on the weekends.

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Or inside the bar, off duty? :?

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Good point!

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utbagpiper wrote:

BILLYBADBOY wrote:

Trekker wrote:

Or inside the bar, off duty? :?

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Apparently it is also his prerogative to carry a gun when he is way over the legal limit of BAC.

If cops want to be regular joes when they are "off duty" none of my business. Drink to your heats' content, don't get rowdy, and call a cab or use a DD rather than driving drunk.

But if they want to claim they are "never off duty" and thus need to carry a gun (even when they are not on the clock) at times and in places where mere commoners are not allowed to do so, then they darn well ought to act like they are "never off duty" and not get smashed out in public.

I can accept the logic of EITHER position. But I'd like to see officers or at least departments pick one position and stick with it.

An intoxicated man's judgment and reflexes are impaired. He has NO BUSINESS carrying, much less drawing and using a gun. If you are going to carry a gun, don't get intoxicated. If you are going to get intoxicated, leave the gun at home.

I see no reason why cops should think they are exempt from this simple, common-sense rule.

Charles

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Wow, blindsided by this one. My response was only to say it his right to enjoy a brew on his time off just like mine or yours if you so choose.

All this other information was added after. I did not mean to comment on that.

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JoeSparky wrote:

It was not MY understanding that LEO's were exempt from the penalty of being impaired (BAC > .08 for a person 21 years or older) while in possession of a firearm but now I can't find the specific law.

And NOW, I have found the law....
http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_10_052800.htm

76-10-528. Carrying a dangerous weapon while under influence of alcohol or drugs unlawful.
(1) Any person who carries a dangerous weapon while under the influence of alcohol or a controlled substance as defined in Section 58-37-2 is guilty of a class B misdemeanor. Under the influence means the same level of influence or blood or breath alcohol concentration as provided in Subsections 41-6a-502(1)(a) through(c).
(2) It is not a defense to prosecution under this section that the person:
(a) is licensed in the pursuit of wildlife of any kind; or
(b) has a valid permit to carry a concealed firearm.

I don't really care if one is in the bar, I just don't want them DRUNK with a weapon weather that weapon be a firearm or a car! As this is written, it includes many knifes and other weapons not just firearms!

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I believe this is it:

76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws.
(1) This part and Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7, Concealed Weapon Act, do not apply to any of the following:
(a) a United States marshal;
(b) a federal official required to carry a firearm;
(c) a peace officer of this or any other jurisdiction;
(d) a law enforcement official as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
(e) a judge as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
....

By what rationale ANYONE should be carrying a gun while intoxicated I can't imagine.

I don't care if someone legally carries into a bar. I don't even much care if they want A drink or two such that they are no where close to any legal limit. (I know others don't want ANY drinking if someone is carrying a gun; but I just don't have an issue if someone wants a drink with dinner or something similar and is no where close to being impaired. And I'm not a drinker myself.)

I just don't want anyone carrying a gun (or operating a car, or flying an airplane, or being in control of a boat, etc) if they are intoxicated.

Not only are there needless risks if judgment is impaired, but it also calls into question any decision made. Note the recent case in SLC of an off duty cop shooting a man he claimed was posing an immediate threat to an innocent third party. The cop was drinking; some have alleged he was intoxicated. What may well have been a perfectly good decision is now cast into serious doubt simply because the cop may well have been above the legal limit.

Charles

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IF 76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws exempts all judges and LEO's from thepenalty of carrying a firearmwhile intoxicatedas indicated by 76-10-528. Carrying a dangerous weapon while under influence of alcohol or drugs unlawful. then the law needs to be revised!

We should not have a multiple tier system of citizens in this country. All men (include women to be PC) are created EQUAL.... it frosts me to no end that some seem to be MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS!

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JoeSparky wrote:

IF 76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws exempts all judges and LEO's from thepenalty of carrying a firearmwhile intoxicatedas indicated by 76-10-528. Carrying a dangerous weapon while under influence of alcohol or drugs unlawful. then the law needs to be revised!

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Whether it does or not didn't matter in the incident utahbagpiper was referring to. In that case, the officer's buddies waited several hours after the incident beore testing his BAC, by which time it was below the legal limit.

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BILLYBADBOY wrote:

Wow, blindsided by this one. My response was only to say it his right to enjoy a brew on his time off just like mine or yours if you so choose.

All this other information was added after. I did not mean to comment on that.

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You didn't comment on whether or not you think the officer has a right to carry while enjoying his off-duty brew. That's an important question.

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swillden wrote:

BILLYBADBOY wrote:

Wow, blindsided by this one. My response was only to say it his right to enjoy a brew on his time off just like mine or yours if you so choose.

All this other information was added after. I did not mean to comment on that.

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You didn't comment on whether or not you think the officer has a right to carry while enjoying his off-duty brew. That's an important question.

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No I did not mean to comment in any way about carrying while drinking.

I did not read every post when I first responded. This has gone far from wal mart issues into cops carrying issues.

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swillden wrote:

JoeSparky wrote:

IF 76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws exempts all judges and LEO's from thepenalty of carrying a firearmwhile intoxicatedas indicated by 76-10-528. Carrying a dangerous weapon while under influence of alcohol or drugs unlawful. then the law needs to be revised!

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Whether it does or not didn't matter in the incident utahbagpiper was referring to. In that case, the officer's buddies waited several hours after the incident beore testing his BAC, by which time it was below the legal limit.

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If this is turning into another anti cop thread then I will be forced to leave.

I will go get "frosted" and think about why cops are better than me. But I will still respect them for the job the majority of them do. They do it well and deserve respect. Don't let the actions of a few taint your view of the whole.

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I have to admit, this thread does need to get back on track. I thought Wally World was the topic here. I know I have hijacked my fair share of threads, but this one really needs to lean away from where it's going.

Kevin

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BILLYBADBOY wrote:

swillden wrote:

JoeSparky wrote:

IF 76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws exempts all judges and LEO's from thepenalty of carrying a firearmwhile intoxicatedas indicated by 76-10-528. Carrying a dangerous weapon while under influence of alcohol or drugs unlawful. then the law needs to be revised!

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Whether it does or not didn't matter in the incident utahbagpiper was referring to. In that case, the officer's buddies waited several hours after the incident beore testing his BAC, by which time it was below the legal limit.

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If this is turning into another anti cop thread then I will be forced to leave.

I will go get "frosted" and think about why cops are better than me. But I will still respect them for the job the majority of them do. They do it well and deserve respect. Don't let the actions of a few taint your view of the whole.

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I'm not anti-cop. I'm just pro equal-application of the law.

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BILLYBADBOY wrote:

... I will be forced to leave.

I will go get "frosted" and think about why cops are better than me. But I will still respect them for the job the majority of them do. They do it well and deserve respect. Don't let the actions of a few taint your view of the whole.

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Police officers are deserving of respect right up to the moment they do something to prove they are not worthy of respect.

VIOLATING my rights or the rights of any lawful gun owner by attempting to impose unlawful gun bans is a sure sign a cop is not worthy of respect.

Getting intoxicated while carrying a gun, or carrying a gun when one is intoxicated, is also a pretty good indicator that an individual police officer is not worthy of respect. Whether technically legal or not, such conduct is beyond the pale for anyone who is supposedly trained in firearms safety.

Charles

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Can't argue with that. I agree 100%

Kevin

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utbagpiper wrote:

Police officers are deserving of respect right up to the moment they do something to prove they are not worthy of respect.

VIOLATING my rights or the rights of any lawful gun owner by attempting to impose unlawful gun bans is a sure sign a cop is not worthy of respect.

Getting intoxicated while carrying a gun, or carrying a gun when one is intoxicated, is also a pretty good indicator that an individual police officer is not worthy of respect. Whether technically legal or not, such conduct is beyond the pale for anyone who is supposedly trained in firearms safety.

Charles

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Similar to you and your victim mentality?

I agree there are issues but picking fights among ourselves dont help.

I will attempt to ingnore the childish behavior.

Lets be specific, What cop, What happened, where, when?

And dont lie, I have caught someon here "BENDING" facts before.

It is not fair to judge a group by the actions of one or a few.

That goes both ways.

Perhaps a new thread would be in order.

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BILLYBADBOY wrote:

Similar to you and your victim mentality?

I agree there are issues but picking fights among ourselves dont help.

I will attempt to ingnore the childish behavior.

Lets be specific, What cop, What happened, where, when?

And dont lie, I have caught someon here "BENDING" facts before.

It is not fair to judge a group by the actions of one or a few.

That goes both ways.

Perhaps a new thread would be in order.

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No victim mentality here. That is why I carry a gun.

And trolls are not part of us. Those who are opposed to citizens carrying guns are not part of us. If you'd like me to not consider you in these categories you need to change your style a bit.

I don't know any more of what happened than what I read in the papers. Go read the articles. Salt Lake area off-duty cop was drinking and possibly intoxicated when he made the decision to draw his firearm and shoot a man in defense of an innocent third party. Maybe the cleanest shoot in the history of guns. Maybe not. Pretty sure you or I would have been treated FAR differently than this off duty, possibly drunk cop was treated.

Now, about you ratchet up the manhood to introduce yourself rather than hiding behind a cute screen name billy goat?

Charles

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BILLYBADBOY wrote:

were you there? Did you witness this? Can you prove what you claim?

What is with the hostility? Charles I do believe that you need to chill before you blow your top.

I see you as a sheeple being led by the media or opinions of your friends. Get a life my good friend.

Victim advocate groups are available.

How are you a victimof this " event" when you were not a party to it?

As for the for us or against us thing, that is just silly. Opinions vary, strong points from many make the best choices and policy.

I think you will not be excusing me. I already stated that. Mike can ask me to leave, it is his website. But I might stay anyway cause it is open to the public. Hey thats just like going to walmart carrying a gun. Even if you are asked to leave or cover it you just go in to the other door. Works for me.

Chuck, I do hope that we can be friends and learn to value each other in spite of our opposing views.

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Do you have a reading disability? What part of "no more than I read in the paper" leaves any question in your mind?

Were YOU there? Do you have inside information from some other source?

Do you intend to introduce yourself? Or will you continue to be a coward behind an anonymous login?

What is with YOUR hostility toward OC? And toward every opinion expressed here? "Can you prove...." blah blah blah.

And the name is Charles, or Utbagpiper. It is very poor manners to presume to address someone by a nickname when you have not been invited to do so.

So, who the hell are you, billy?

Charles

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BILLYBADBOY wrote:

What does that have to do with OC?

In utah a cop is a cop. Try paying attention to how many troopers are outside your local bar on the weekends.

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Like I said, it was just an observation and was off topic. I know a cop is a cop in Utah. I don't mind any of them keeping drunk drivers off the roads. I may be driving out there with my family and don't want a drunk slamming into me. I just wondered why it seemed like Centerville was on the freeway so often and if anyone else had noticed. I don't like LEO's chasing revenue instead of those who are violating the law.

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If this is turning into another anti cop thread then I will be forced to leave.

I will go get "frosted" and think about why cops are better than me. But I will still respect them for the job the majority of them do. They do it well and deserve respect. Don't let the actions of a few taint your view of the whole.

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I'm with you on this one. I still respect them all until they prove otherwise. I try to avoid confrontations while they are required to insert themselves into them. The vast majority, IMHO, are good people with good intentions.

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kirkaroberts wrote:

The vast majority, IMHO, are good people with good intentions.

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You mean those things that pave the road to hell? :lol:

I'm joking, but there is a serious aspect: That a person has good intentions does not, in and of itself, guarantee that his acts are good. Part of our role as civic-minded citizens is to stand up to law enforcement officers who are exceeding their authority, even if they're doing it for what they think are good and beneficial reasons.

So respect them, certainly, but that doesn't mean you have to allow them to exceed their authority, or to fail to comply with the law.

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kirkaroberts wrote:

Just an observation and way off topic, why do Centerville PD Officers work the freeway so much? It seems like I always see them out on I-15 with someone stopped. That bothers me. Do the citations generate revenue for the City of Centerville? Perhaps Centerville is so peaceful that the only work they have is the freeway or maybe they are pursuing drivers from town onto the freeway. Has anyone else noticed this? It may be perfectly innocent but I do not see other city departments on UHP's "turf" that much. Does anyone know what is up with this?

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There is no "turf" infringement here. Centerville is allowed to enforce all laws within their jurisdiction including the interstates that pass through their city limits. The following citations may help.

http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE53/htm/53_13_010300.htm

http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE77/htm/77_09_000300.htm

Frankly I am happy to see them out there. It is no secret that our state is experiencing serious budget issues and as a result many state agencies are experiencing a hiring freeze. I have a personal friend who is a sergant with UHP and he has told me that they are not fully staffed and cannot hire right now. I wish more municipalities would step in and make our freeways a bit safer. Plus it does not bother me one bit that those who break the laws subsidize our municipal programs.



Back to Walmart, I have been to the Centerville Walmart twice now OC and have not had a problem